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IDP Scoring Format Central -- Questions, Concerns, etc.


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#1 mjb03003

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:37 PM

Greetings fellow IDP players.

I'm generally curious about the scoring format your leagues use.

I'm hoping to gain some ideas/suggestions for how to revise my league's IDP scoring format. We've become really tackle heavy, and I want to adjust things to reward big plays (sacks, turnovers) more, and make the league less about who is in position to make tackles.

Here's my scoring format:

Tackle Solo - 2
Tackle Assits - 1
Sack - 3
Interception - 3
Fumble Force - 2
Fumble Recovery - 2
Defensive TD - 6
Safety - 2
Pass Defended - 1
Block Kick - 2

I'm thinking of going to 1 point for solo tackles, 0.5 for assists, and bumping sacks, interceptions, and fumbles forced/recovered, but I'm not sure how much is too much or how it will impact the players who are owned.

10 team 2-QB, PPR, IDP, Auction dynasty
QB1 - Peyton Manning, QB2 - Colin Kaepernick
WR1 - Julio Jones, WR2 - Steve Smith Sr.
RB1 - Matt Forte, RB2 - Giovani Bernard
TE - Travis Kelce
W/R - Ronnie Hillman
W/T - Keenan Allen
Bench - Derek Carr, Mike Evans, Michael Crabtree, Cordarrelle Patterson, Davante Adams, Ladarius Green

 

DB1 - Harrison Smith, DB2 - Kenny Vaccaro, DB3 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
DL1 - Cameron Wake, DB2 - Carlos Dunlap, DL3 - Jadaveon Clowney
LB1 - Lavonte David, LB2 - Paul Worrilow LB3 - Ryan Shazier
D Flex - K.J. Wright
Bench - Kiko Alonso, Dont'a Hightower

IR - Paul Posluszny

 


#2 vikes fan

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

Solo Tackle - 1
Assisted Tackle - 0.5
Sack - 5
INT - 5
Forced Fumble - 3
Fumble Recovery - 2
TD - 6
Blocked Kick - 2
Safety - 4
50+ Yard INT Return TD Bonus - 2
50+ Yard Fumble Return TD Bonus - 2

#3 Timmah!

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:22 PM

Tackle Solo - 2
Tackle Assits - 1
Sack - 3
Interception - 3
Fumble Force - 2
Fumble Recovery - 2
Defensive TD - 6
Safety - 2
Pass Defended - 1
Block Kick - 2

I'm thinking of going to 1 point for solo tackles, 0.5 for assists, and bumping sacks, interceptions, and fumbles forced/recovered, but I'm not sure how much is too much or how it will impact the players who are owned.


You're essentially giving 5 points per sack with the current setup, and it favors Linebackers over any other position (when including the tackle totals). Your setup also tends to devalue defensive backs, with the 3 pts per pick and 1 pt per PD.

In my league, Sacks are worth 3 points (making them 4 point plays), Interceptions are 4, and PD's are 2. That way, there's a little more balance between positions. I also give more for Fumble Forces than Recoveries; I've discussed this before, and rather go on at length (again), I'll summarize by saying that it is intended to reward the skill that led to the turnover.

I also give more for Safeties and Blocked Kicks (4 and 5, respectively). They're rare plays and if you are lucky enough to have someone do it, it should really mean something.

The net result is that we have about a dozen players averaging 10 pts per game for the season, with Willis leading the way at 12.30. There's a healthy mix of LB's and DB's in the top 25, but like most formats, I still haven't figured out how to get DE's more value. I could fatten up Sack points, but then that will really throw things out of whack in favor of LB's. As it is, Allen is a top-10 player, and Calais Campbell is in the top 30, and there's only two others in the top 100, JPP and Peppers.

Anyone have thoughts on how to build up D-linemen?
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#4 mjb03003

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:53 PM

You're essentially giving 5 points per sack with the current setup, and it favors Linebackers over any other position (when including the tackle totals). Your setup also tends to devalue defensive backs, with the 3 pts per pick and 1 pt per PD.

In my league, Sacks are worth 3 points (making them 4 point plays), Interceptions are 4, and PD's are 2. That way, there's a little more balance between positions. I also give more for Fumble Forces than Recoveries; I've discussed this before, and rather go on at length (again), I'll summarize by saying that it is intended to reward the skill that led to the turnover.

I also give more for Safeties and Blocked Kicks (4 and 5, respectively). They're rare plays and if you are lucky enough to have someone do it, it should really mean something.

The net result is that we have about a dozen players averaging 10 pts per game for the season, with Willis leading the way at 12.30. There's a healthy mix of LB's and DB's in the top 25, but like most formats, I still haven't figured out how to get DE's more value. I could fatten up Sack points, but then that will really throw things out of whack in favor of LB's. As it is, Allen is a top-10 player, and Calais Campbell is in the top 30, and there's only two others in the top 100, JPP and Peppers.

Anyone have thoughts on how to build up D-linemen?


thanks for posting, and I like all of your suggestions.

I don't think there is any way to boost DL without giving a similar boost to LBs and DBs. Maybe add tackles for loss as a category, since DLs tend to blow up running plays in the backfield and it's nearly as valuable in real life as a sack.

One other thing - I could have had this wrong all along but I was always under the impression that a sack was just a sack... Not a tackle plus a sack. If I've been wrong all along (definitely possible) then does a sack also count as a tackle for a loss? if that's the case wouldn't every sack count as a sack, a tackle for loss, and a regular tackle all at once? I feel like that would be really silly if the stat services didn't treat them as separate events.

Edited by mjb03003, 30 November 2011 - 08:56 PM.

10 team 2-QB, PPR, IDP, Auction dynasty
QB1 - Peyton Manning, QB2 - Colin Kaepernick
WR1 - Julio Jones, WR2 - Steve Smith Sr.
RB1 - Matt Forte, RB2 - Giovani Bernard
TE - Travis Kelce
W/R - Ronnie Hillman
W/T - Keenan Allen
Bench - Derek Carr, Mike Evans, Michael Crabtree, Cordarrelle Patterson, Davante Adams, Ladarius Green

 

DB1 - Harrison Smith, DB2 - Kenny Vaccaro, DB3 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
DL1 - Cameron Wake, DB2 - Carlos Dunlap, DL3 - Jadaveon Clowney
LB1 - Lavonte David, LB2 - Paul Worrilow LB3 - Ryan Shazier
D Flex - K.J. Wright
Bench - Kiko Alonso, Dont'a Hightower

IR - Paul Posluszny

 


#5 Timmah!

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:53 PM

One other thing - I could have had this wrong all along but I was always under the impression that a sack was just a sack... Not a tackle plus a sack. If I've been wrong all along (definitely possible) then does a sack also count as a tackle for a loss? if that's the case wouldn't every sack count as a sack, a tackle for loss, and a regular tackle all at once? I feel like that would be really silly if the stat services didn't treat them as separate events.


It counts as both a Solo Tackle and as a Sack. It doesn't count as a TFL.

I don't remember TFL's being available in Yahoo. I'll have to check that out next season.
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#6 mjb03003

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:30 AM

It counts as both a Solo Tackle and as a Sack. It doesn't count as a TFL.

I don't remember TFL's being available in Yahoo. I'll have to check that out next season.


interesting that they would make that distinction that a sack is a tackle but not a tackle for loss.

I'll have to look into it in greater depth, I never used TFL before but I was looking at my settings earlier today and I did see it is an option (Yahoo league).

10 team 2-QB, PPR, IDP, Auction dynasty
QB1 - Peyton Manning, QB2 - Colin Kaepernick
WR1 - Julio Jones, WR2 - Steve Smith Sr.
RB1 - Matt Forte, RB2 - Giovani Bernard
TE - Travis Kelce
W/R - Ronnie Hillman
W/T - Keenan Allen
Bench - Derek Carr, Mike Evans, Michael Crabtree, Cordarrelle Patterson, Davante Adams, Ladarius Green

 

DB1 - Harrison Smith, DB2 - Kenny Vaccaro, DB3 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
DL1 - Cameron Wake, DB2 - Carlos Dunlap, DL3 - Jadaveon Clowney
LB1 - Lavonte David, LB2 - Paul Worrilow LB3 - Ryan Shazier
D Flex - K.J. Wright
Bench - Kiko Alonso, Dont'a Hightower

IR - Paul Posluszny

 


#7 rperricone

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:04 AM

Mine is very complex.

2 pts per solo tackle
1 pt for assisted tackle
12 pts for sack by DL
10 pts per sack by LB
8 pts per sack by DB
4 pts per PD by DB
3 pts per PD by LB
2 pts per PD by DL
6 pts per TD
6 pts per FR
6 pts per INT
2 pts per FF
.1 per return yards
2 pts for safety
6 pts for blocked kick (FG or punt)


Abraham 55 pts last night

Edited by rperricone, 16 December 2011 - 11:08 AM.

12-team. Dynasty. 53 man active. 8 man PS. Salary and year cap.

QB - Aaron Rodgers - Carson Palmer - Logan Thomas
RB - DeMarco Murray - Ellington - Ridley - Blount - James White - Benny Cunningham - Dwyer
WR - Andre Johnson - DeSean Jackson - Torrey Smith - Wayne - Terrance Williams
Stills - Broyles
TE - Witten - Martellus Bennett - Fiedorowicz
OL - Evans (NO) - Bakhtiari (GB) - Franklin (DEN) - Okung (SEA) - Martin (DAL) - Martin (SF)
Oher (TEN) - Collins (TB) - Loadholt (MIN) - Bernadeau (DAL)
DB - Whitner - Webb - Aaron Williams - Ryan Clark - Boykin
Kyle Arrington - Jimmy Smith - Tony Jefferson - Darian Stewart
DL - Chris Long - Tuck - Akiem Hicks - Adrian Clayburn - Andre Branch - Selvie - Melton
LB - CJ Mosley - Greenway - Mason Foster - Melvin Ingram - Kruger - Durant
Shaun Phillips - Jacquian Williams - Jarvis Jones - Foote
PK - Zuerlein
XP - Chris Jones - Janikowski
IR - Sean Lee - Van Noy

#8 Zorak

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:58 AM

I played in a league that rewarded return yards the same as passing yards. the idea was that it would make every part of the game important, including special teams. It did change the way I looked at the game. suddenly punt situations weren't so boring anymore. Patrick Peterson was my IDP MVP. Ted Ginn and Randall Cobb were also solid contributors in this format

It also had:

1 point per tackle
6 per sack
4 per fumbles forced
3 per fumble recovered
6 per inception
6 for a safety
6 for a blocked kick

#9 JOBOOZ0S0

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:11 PM

Number of Punt Return TDs 6 points each
Punt Return Yards 1 point for every 25
Number of Kickoff Return TDs 6 points each
Kickoff Return Yards 1 point for every 25
Fumbles Lost (to Opponent) -3 points each
Fumble Recoveries (from Opponent) 3 points each
Number of Offensive Fumble Recovery TDs 6 points each
Forced Fumbles 3 points each
Interceptions Caught 3 points each
Passes Defensed 1 point each
Number of Blocked Field Goal TDs 6 points each
Blocked Field Goals 3 points each
Number of Missed Field Goal Return TDs 6 points each
Number of Blocked Punt TDs 6 points each
Blocked Punts 3 points each
Blocked Extra Points 3 points each
Tackles 1 point each
Sacked a QB 4 points each
Safeties 6 points each
Number of Defensive TDs 6 points each

TD = 6pts (even for offense), and everything works off that
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#10 JeffRatcliffe

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 08:36 AM

Anyone have thoughts on how to build up D-linemen?

Sites like MyFantasyLeague allow you to enter your scoring settings by position, so you can give DLs slightly more pts per tackle than LBs and DBs. Here's a league I played in last season that had this type of scoring system.

As for the scoring systems listed in this thread, it really depends on what you want for your league. Some prefer a tackle heavy system, while others weight scoring towards big plays like sacks and interceptions. My preference is for a system that strikes a balance between the two.

One thing I did notice is the devaluing of blocks and safeties in the systems mentioned. Considering that safeties occur on roughly .05% of snaps and blocked kicks happen .1% of the time, they should not be equal to of even lass than sacks, which occur on 3.2% of snaps. I tend to value blocks at 6-8 pts and safeties at 8-10 pts. I know it sounds crazy, but the data is really eye-opening, and supports this scoring. I also tend to value forced fumbles at roughly double that of fumble recoveries. Forcing a fumble is a skill, while recovering one is much more random. I prefer something like 1.5-2 pts per FR, and 3-4 pts per FF.
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#11 anthony romeo

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

I'm trying to figure out how to make D players more valuable. I had a thought or two about it and am looking for feedback.

1. Raise pt values for plays
2. Add more D positions to the roster
* Currently we run D, D, DL, DL, DB, DB (6 positions)

Rising pt values to me seemed logical but it really doesnt make the players more valuable because pts are raised across the board for everyone

Adding more positions will put more emphasis on D during draft because positions will be more scarce to get.

I'm trying to figure out a way to make fantasy football more like fantasy baseball where Pitchers/hitters are drafted closer together. Pitchers = Defensive players in football the way I compare it.

Thoughts and feedback are greatly appreciated!

#12 JeffRatcliffe

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 07:13 AM

So are you saying you want your IDPs drafted in early rounds of the draft? If so, that may be a bit of a stretch. Even in the most competitive IDP leagues, the offensive players will always go first. I'm currently running a series of IDP mocks on MFL. Here's a link to the scoring system. It's a fairly balanced system, but I'm actually a little light on the tackles, and could easily bump it up to 2 pts per. Here's a link to the draft for that same mock.

It all depends on what you want to do here. But I did notice that you don't have a spot designated for just LBs. I'd definitely do that. So something like: 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, and 1 D FLEX
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#13 anthony romeo

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:19 PM

Interesting thank you for the feedback. I'm not saying to draft defensive in the first two rounds, but giving enough value to draft within rd 3 or 4 ? Seems like D positions don't go until at least rds 6 or 7

#14 JeffRatcliffe

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:30 PM

I've seen JPP go as early as the 4th this year, but there's no reason to go IDP that early. In fact, you really sacrifice value by doing so. If you have IDPs starting to go in the 6th to 7th rounds, then your league is set up the right way.

Of course, if you want IDPs to go very early, you can always put together an IDP only league. That's not for the faint of heart, thought. B)
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#15 JOBOOZ0S0

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:34 PM

I use:

16-team league:
7 total IDP
4 LB max
1 DL min
1 DB min

DL's are boring unless you own a Top 8 guy. Once you get past there, it's all junk.
There are thousands of DB's. You could literally pick guys off the wire each week.

Reducing those positions and increasing LB's forces team to acquire a stable of quality, steady linebackers.

It's worked for years in my league.
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#16 eom

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:42 PM

I would definitely second jeff's suggestion about adding lb, regardless of what else you do.

I'm not sure what difference the rounds make, but you are looking at basically 2 components to manipulate -- scarcity and absolute point value.

I don't have any particular yen to equate points between idp and offense , but that's obviously something you could do.
what you'd want to do is go to whatever site where you can enter your league's scoring, pull up lists of the various positions, and tweak until they come out similar.

the key thing I think people overlook, though, is the scarcity angle, which is also why you see so many rb taken in the first round, traditionally.
so, if it bubbles up the rb position, break it down and apply it to idp.
our league uses a similar idp roster, but with lb, and I really don't think that's enough to create scarcity of idp position.

if you think about it this way, there are maybe 3 productive w/r/t on the field for each nfl team.
11 guys - 1 qb - 5 ol - 1 blocking player - 1 crummy 2nd receiver = 3 guys
this is obviously oversimplified, but it's just an illustration to show how the 5 o-linemen can really impact scarcity of offensive players.

on defense, you don't have 5 wasted linemen, although the dt isn't all that productive, if you don't split out dt, and there are so many 3-4 teams in the league the accounting gets tricky.
I'll say half the league runs 3-4, and of the front 7 players, there might be 3.5 that are in useful positions.
there are 4 more guys in the secondary, and I'll say that 2 of those might be drafted, leaving us with nearly 6 useful guys on defense, by position, as compared with only 3 on offense.
again, vastly oversimplified, but illustration of a point.

I think my team played about 7 w/r/t and 7 idp last year, but the idp player pool is maybe twice as deep, which cheapens the players drafted --- they are much more fungible because there are ready replacements, whereas every rb down to kick returners got hogged up in my league.

pull up a list of idp by position in your scoring system, figure how many are playable, and build your roster to create an equivalent scarcity to offensive players.
also, if you really want to bubble them up, you might need to tweak up scoring.

I'll give an example from my league ----
given a 12 teamer (ppr) starting 2 rb + flex, I'll call this 36 rb
the 36th rb in my league scored 33% of the top guy's score
meanwhile, although starting 2 lb + 1 flex also gives 36 lb, my 36th lb was equal to 61% of the top guy.
you actually have to go through nearly 100 lb to find a guy who came in at 33% of the top guy.
look at it that way, or just lump all w/r/t together and do the same comparison with all idp..

if you doubled your idp roster, just as example, I think you'd find the real studs and hypes going much earlier, but it's also dependent on scoring.
if each idp scored in a 1-3 range, while my offensive players scored in a 1-50 range, I probably don't give a crap about drafting stud idp over offense.

#17 MAAARS

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:18 PM

wondering how you guys would look at your draft strategy with this scoring, and also if anyone sees a problem with the scoring in general? Should I bump any categories up or down? tia really appreciate any feedback

sacks, ints, forced fumbles - 4pts
all TDs, blocked kicks, safeties - 6pts
solo tackles, fumbles recovered - 2pts
asst tackles, passes defended - 1pt

#18 Mr.MojoRisin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

That's pretty close to my league, which means it's slightly slanted in the tackle heavy direction. Whether that is a problem is your preference. I like it this way as tackles are the only thing that is slightly easy to predict for IDP anyhow.
For reference, MLBs were 6 of the top 10 defenders overall and 11 of the top 20 overall in my league. There were 3 (non pass rushing) OLBs in the top 20, as well as 2CB, 3 Safeties, and 1 DE.


If you want to balance it out make an 8-10 tackle day equal a 2 tackles, 1 sack/INT day.
You'd need to make sacks/INTs around 10pts, (but that would make DBs slightly overvalued since they get a few more tackles than pass rushers) or you could cut your tackle points in half to 1pt for a tackle and .5 for an assist.

Hope I helped and didn't just confuse you... LOL
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#19 JeffRatcliffe

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:44 AM

If you're looking for draft strategy, I have a column in the RotoWorld draft guide on that very subject. The draft guide gets release tomorrow.
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#20 MAAARS

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:59 PM

That's pretty close to my league, which means it's slightly slanted in the tackle heavy direction. Whether that is a problem is your preference. I like it this way as tackles are the only thing that is slightly easy to predict for IDP anyhow.
For reference, MLBs were 6 of the top 10 defenders overall and 11 of the top 20 overall in my league. There were 3 (non pass rushing) OLBs in the top 20, as well as 2CB, 3 Safeties, and 1 DE.


If you want to balance it out make an 8-10 tackle day equal a 2 tackles, 1 sack/INT day.
You'd need to make sacks/INTs around 10pts, (but that would make DBs slightly overvalued since they get a few more tackles than pass rushers) or you could cut your tackle points in half to 1pt for a tackle and .5 for an assist.

Hope I helped and didn't just confuse you... LOL


lol no that was great thanks
I was kind of liking the idea that it was a little tackle heavy (MLB is my favorite position in football)

would you guys say that it's important to go LB early and often, especially in my scoring format because of their value? or go DL early because of the drop off after Allen/JPP?