2697 replies to this topic

[rocko]

VeganZombies, on 30 April 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Quote

Which is the main reason they signed Lin.

Do you actually believe that? You know Daryl pubically refuted that idea and if the asian market was such a big deal you'd think Lin would get way more lucrative contracts from teams. Lin got a basically standard offer for a 3rd year breakout undrafted player (like Westley matthews)

Yes. Of course he's going publicly refute that. Do you really think Lin>dragic?

[rocko]

And a lot of other teams considered him a fluke/bench player and wouldn't come close to the rockets 8+ mil a year offer. Knicks were going to resign him until rockets upped their offer. You'll never be able to convince me that after the success the rockets had with Yao from a marketability standpoint that they didn't sign Lin bc he was arguably the most popular player in the nba the season before and the second best Asian player since Yao Ming. He's a decent player, but dragic and Lowry were better than him in my opinion.

[rocko]

Edit: his contract isn't exactly 8+ a year. It's staggered to where he'll end up getting 14.5 mil his third year, which was done specifically to keep the Knicks from being able to match the offer under the new cba.

[VeganZombies]

rocko, on 30 April 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

And a lot of other teams considered him a fluke/bench player and wouldn't come close to the rockets 8+ mil a year offer. Knicks were going to resign him until rockets upped their offer. You'll never be able to convince me that after the success the rockets had with Yao from a marketability standpoint that they didn't sign Lin bc he was arguably the most popular player in the nba the season before and the second best Asian player since Yao Ming. He's a decent player, but dragic and Lowry were better than him in my opinion.

... Why even have a discussion if you're just going to closemindedly accept a claim. Him being asian was not a factor in him getting the contract. 8 million a year is standard for what you pay a breakout undrafted player, expecially one with superstar potential (which he showed in Linsanity).

Tell me why giving Lin 8m a year is due to him being asian if Asik got 8M when he was a legit bench warmer that didn't see any meaningful minutes his whole career. Atleast we know Lin put up an Allstar caliber stetch while getting starters minutes while winning games.

The most obvious explaination is that Lin and Asik wasn't worth 8M a year but had upside of a near max guy and Morey was paying a premium for the potential.

I'm not going to say being asian didn't matter, it was obvious a nice ancillary benefit, but not the main benefit. I mean why didn't the rockets sign Sun Yue or Yi jianlian to keep the asian market.

Edited by VeganZombies, 30 April 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[rocko]

I'm not being close minded, I've already heard all the arguments against this and it hasn't changed my stance. You seem to have a really hard time accepting other peoples opinions and differentiating between opinion and fact. You can't prove your opinion. Period.

To convince me that it wasn't a big factor you'd have to prove to me that Lin is a better player than dragic which you can't do. Wasn't as good as him and didn't have his potential. It's not like the suns gave him an insane contract. He averages just as much salary wise as Lins contract. Makes no sense from a basketball standpoint but a ton of sense from a marketability standpoint.

[VeganZombies]

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You seem to have a really hard time accepting other peoples opinions and differentiating between opinion and fact.You can't prove your opinion. Period.

Oh really? You can have an opinion "Rockets paid lin because he was asian"? either it's true or it's not. Unfortunately you can't prove it's true, so we have to assume it's not true (or no opinion). (Since you're making the positive claim).

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To convince me that it wasn't a big factor you'd have to prove to me that Lin is a better player than dragic which you can't do. Wasn't as good as him and didn't have his potential.

Okay if you think so.

[rocko]

We have to assume its not true? Ummm... What?! No, I don't have to assume anything. I don't have a problem with you thinking differently because that's your opinion, but you seem to get upset that you can't change others' opinions. That's life.

And I've never heard anyone that knows anything about basketball say Lin is a better player than dragic or has his potential.

[rocko]

But this has nothing to do with the lakers thread so pm me if you want to try and disprove an opinion.

[VeganZombies]

You seem to be confusing opinion with belief. The claim "Rockets paid lin because he was asian" is not an opinion. It's a factual claim that you believe. It is not subjective. You're making an accusation with no evidence to support it and passing it off as an opinion which it isn't.

Stop insulting Lin as a player by trying to belittle him by saying he's asian and that was a factor of him getting paid. Everyone in the rockets organization said he got it through merit alone and there's reason to believe he got it through merit alone.

Stop comparing Dragic to Lin. Dragic was an unrestricted FA Lin was a restricted FA. Even if Dragic is way better with more potential prying away a young potential superstar requires teams to overpay relative to if it was fair negotiations.

Lin likely would have agreed to 4-5M a year with the rockets, but if Morey offered that NYC would have instantantly accepted so he gave him way more.

[rocko]

My statement is 100% an opinion.
Opinion: a BELIEF about matters considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain and the result of interpretation of facts.


The rockets signed him for a reason that neither of us know, so we are speculating and giving our opinions as to why based off the facts surrounding the situation.

I'm not belittling him or  insulting him. I'm stating my opinion that his marketability had a lot to do with him getting signed there. I think he's a below average point guard and a fringe starter like jarret jack or Darren collison. He's ranked 35th among point guards in PER while dragic and Lowry are 17th and 18th, despite having similar usage rates as Lin.

The rockets organization saying he was signed based purely off talent and potential doesn't prove anything. I would never expect a team to formally admit they signed a player for marketability. The fact that they even had to announce that shows what everyone was thinking.

You need to stop being so thin skinned about differing opinions. I'm not sweating yours.

Edited by rocko, 30 April 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[EatPrayLove]

rocko, on 30 April 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

My statement is 100% an opinion.
Opinion: a BELIEF about matters considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain and the result of interpretation of facts.


The rockets signed him for a reason that neither of us know, so we are speculating and giving our opinions as to why based off the facts surrounding the situation.

I'm not belittling him or  insulting him. I'm stating my opinion that his marketability had a lot to do with him getting signed there. I think he's a below average point guard and a fringe starter like jarret jack or Darren collison. He's ranked 35th among point guards in PER while dragic and Lowry are 17th and 18th, despite having similar usage rates as Lin.

The rockets organization saying he was signed based purely off talent and potential doesn't prove anything. I would never expect a team to formally admit they signed a player for marketability. The fact that they even had to announce that shows what everyone was thinking.

You need to stop being so thin skinned about differing opinions. I'm not sweating yours.

Geeze Rocko, is Rotoworld paying you by the word on these forums or what?

[rocko]

Nope, my posts are free of charge.

[darkyume]

I used to love RW forums, when one would be able to voice an opinion without having it turn into a multiple page disagreement, that somehow morphs into the subject of opinion vs belief.

[EatPrayLove]

VeganZombies, on 30 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Quote

You seem to have a really hard time accepting other peoples opinions and differentiating between opinion and fact.You can't prove your opinion. Period.

Oh really? You can have an opinion "Rockets paid lin because he was asian"? either it's true or it's not. Unfortunately you can't prove it's true, so we have to assume it's not true (or no opinion). (Since you're making the positive claim).

Quote

To convince me that it wasn't a big factor you'd have to prove to me that Lin is a better player than dragic which you can't do. Wasn't as good as him and didn't have his potential.

Okay if you think so.

I would have thought you 2 would have learnt your lessons not to get into another race debate on these forums.

[rocko]

One of the mods actually brought up Yao being one of the biggest global stars during his playing days and I stated my opinion that that's what rockets were trying to capitalize on with Lin, who is also very popular globally. Somebody then tried to disprove my opinion then tell me my opinion isn't an opinion.

[EatPrayLove]

You know it would be great if LA traded for Derrick Favors, Rudy Gay, Kevin Love and Ramon Sessions in addition to Kobe.

Lakers could have a potential team of:

Kobe Bryant
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gay
Kevin Love
Ramon Sessions.

Championship team right there!

Edited by EatPrayLove, Today, 02:52 AM.

[Kobe_No_Means_No]

EatPrayLove, on 20 May 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

You know it would be great if LA traded for Derrick Favors, Rudy Gay, Kevin Love and Ramon Sessions in addition to Kobe.

Lakers could have a potential team of:

Kobe Bryant
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gay
Kevin Love
Ramon Sessions.

Championship team right there!

But last season they had:
Nash
Kobe
Artest
Gasol
Dwight
with Jamison on the bench

And we all know what happened... I think big names do help in terms of getting better foul calls and the "star" treatment from the NBA, but other than that it still comes down to team play.

[EatPrayLove]

Kobe_No_Means_No, on 20 May 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

EatPrayLove, on 20 May 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

You know it would be great if LA traded for Derrick Favors, Rudy Gay, Kevin Love and Ramon Sessions in addition to Kobe.

Lakers could have a potential team of:

Kobe Bryant
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gay
Kevin Love
Ramon Sessions.

Championship team right there!

But last season they had:
Nash
Kobe
Artest
Gasol
Dwight
with Jamison on the bench

And we all know what happened... I think big names do help in terms of getting better foul calls and the "star" treatment from the NBA, but other than that it still comes down to team play.

Read the last names from top to bottom.