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Performance Enhancing Ethics or Pragmatism?Assisting Recovery


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#1 SundayKindofLove

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:55 PM

In light of recent injuries and recoveries to prominent athletes like Adrian Peterson and Derrick rose, here is an interesting question on both an ethical/pragmatic level: should athletes recovering from "serious" injury be allowed to use banned substances like steroids/HGH? (Assuming it assists the recovery process, and assuming the definition of serious is medically defined)

Note: I'm not claiming either A-Pete or D-Rose have used PEDs, nor should I think the discussion focus on whether or not they have used PEDs. The question remains general, but A-Pete and D-Rose's respective injuries may be discussed.

Also, another poster has referenced Andy Pettite as a past example (who has admitted usage in recovery).



Edited by SundayKindofLove, 04 December 2012 - 01:02 PM.

"He hears the crescendoing last chords of the national anthem and sees the great open horseshoe of the grandstand and that unfolding vision of the grass that always seems to mean he has stepped outside his life - the rubbed shine that sweeps and bends from the raked dirt of the infield out to the high green fences. It is the excitement of a revealed thing."

#2 baltimore_boy

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

Ray Lewis is using some sort of treatment for his arm. It may not be PED's, but it's something that has never been tried before and he seems to be on his way back in record time from a torn tricep. Not sure if that fits into this discussion, but it sort of does.

Also, I don't see any issue with using them as long as it is striclty for recovery. Maybe they let them use them to recover, but make them take a drug test before returning to make sure it is out of their system.
Bring back Ray!

#3 SundayKindofLove

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

Does the league test players who are currently not active? / on IR? - It would be interesting to do a compilation of the four leagues, as no testing during this time would essentially be an implicit sanction

Edited by SundayKindofLove, 04 December 2012 - 02:57 PM.

"He hears the crescendoing last chords of the national anthem and sees the great open horseshoe of the grandstand and that unfolding vision of the grass that always seems to mean he has stepped outside his life - the rubbed shine that sweeps and bends from the raked dirt of the infield out to the high green fences. It is the excitement of a revealed thing."

#4 SundayKindofLove

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

Ricky Rubio
"He hears the crescendoing last chords of the national anthem and sees the great open horseshoe of the grandstand and that unfolding vision of the grass that always seems to mean he has stepped outside his life - the rubbed shine that sweeps and bends from the raked dirt of the infield out to the high green fences. It is the excitement of a revealed thing."

#5 SundayKindofLove

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Kobe Bryant
"He hears the crescendoing last chords of the national anthem and sees the great open horseshoe of the grandstand and that unfolding vision of the grass that always seems to mean he has stepped outside his life - the rubbed shine that sweeps and bends from the raked dirt of the infield out to the high green fences. It is the excitement of a revealed thing."

#6 Spike11

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Question is why are the substances banned.... only because it gives you a physical advantage while playing via enhancing your training regiment for example,  or in the case of recovery making the process faster? Is that the debate...allowing it for recovery only?

Dont know much about PED's but I'd think "some" are banned because of the side effects. Player safety.
I think it just opens up a huge can of worms. Your just fooling yourself here to think it could only be used for recovery, IMO.
You have a star prospect in the minors or on your practice squad.... only if he bulked up a little more and added muscle he'd be a star..ok...the kid pulls a muscle so during the offseason allow him to take PED's to recover faster to get him back on the playing field..practice field.... who's to say he doesnt work on another part of his body with same PED to bulk up or whatever, while trying to heal his injury.. an injury that could be made out to be worse than it is. I mean are the drugs body part specific where the PED only affects the injured part? Would you have to have a non biased medical person constantly monitor each recoverying player at all levels of each sport? Meh.
I'll leave it at that for now cause theres so many scenario's.
Regaurdless my concerns would be the medical side effects long term... because if Super Star Pro Athelete Joe can take PED's to recover why cant my 12 yr old son take them also?

#7 SundayKindofLove

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostSpike11, on 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Question is why are the substances banned.... only because it gives you a physical advantage while playing via enhancing your training regiment for example,  or in the case of recovery making the process faster? Is that the debate...allowing it for recovery only?

Dont know much about PED's but I'd think "some" are banned because of the side effects. Player safety.
I think it just opens up a huge can of worms. Your just fooling yourself here to think it could only be used for recovery, IMO.
You have a star prospect in the minors or on your practice squad.... only if he bulked up a little more and added muscle he'd be a star..ok...the kid pulls a muscle so during the offseason allow him to take PED's to recover faster to get him back on the playing field..practice field.... who's to say he doesnt work on another part of his body with same PED to bulk up or whatever, while trying to heal his injury.. an injury that could be made out to be worse than it is. I mean are the drugs body part specific where the PED only affects the injured part? Would you have to have a non biased medical person constantly monitor each recoverying player at all levels of each sport? Meh.
I'll leave it at that for now cause theres so many scenario's.
Regaurdless my concerns would be the medical side effects long term... because if Super Star Pro Athelete Joe can take PED's to recover why cant my 12 yr old son take them also?

Lot of nice issues to discuss here, but all jumbled into a huge thought. So there are:

(1) Legal Issues
(1a) Can a 12 year old take PEDs without parental consent?
(1b) Are there any promulgated regulations by Regulatory Agencies, or Statutes by Congress that criminalize or punish ingestion?
(2) Medical Issues
(2a) Are there serious side effects associated with ingesting PEDS?
(2b) Can a PED be isolated to a specific body part in recovery?
(3) Ethical Issues
(3a) Are PEDs inherently wrong?
(3b) Are they wrong in the context of professional sports?
(3c) In the context of professional sports, is it ok if an Athlete uses PEDs to recover from a career-threatening injury? A non-career threatening injury?
(4) Implementation issues
(4a) How does an athlete know where to "inject" the PED?
(4b) What is the specific body part?
(4c) When is an athlete "injured"?
(4d) When does an athlete need "recovery"?
(4e) If we allowed usage of PEDs in career threatening injuries, how would that affect players who choose to opt-out (due to ethical/moral quandaries) and the overall league in respect to a "level playing field"?

Edited by SundayKindofLove, 07 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

"He hears the crescendoing last chords of the national anthem and sees the great open horseshoe of the grandstand and that unfolding vision of the grass that always seems to mean he has stepped outside his life - the rubbed shine that sweeps and bends from the raked dirt of the infield out to the high green fences. It is the excitement of a revealed thing."

#8 Spike11

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostSundayKindofLove, on 07 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

View PostSpike11, on 05 February 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Question is why are the substances banned.... only because it gives you a physical advantage while playing via enhancing your training regiment for example,  or in the case of recovery making the process faster? Is that the debate...allowing it for recovery only?

Dont know much about PED's but I'd think "some" are banned because of the side effects. Player safety.
I think it just opens up a huge can of worms. Your just fooling yourself here to think it could only be used for recovery, IMO.
You have a star prospect in the minors or on your practice squad.... only if he bulked up a little more and added muscle he'd be a star..ok...the kid pulls a muscle so during the offseason allow him to take PED's to recover faster to get him back on the playing field..practice field.... who's to say he doesnt work on another part of his body with same PED to bulk up or whatever, while trying to heal his injury.. an injury that could be made out to be worse than it is. I mean are the drugs body part specific where the PED only affects the injured part? Would you have to have a non biased medical person constantly monitor each recoverying player at all levels of each sport? Meh.
I'll leave it at that for now cause theres so many scenario's.
Regaurdless my concerns would be the medical side effects long term... because if Super Star Pro Athelete Joe can take PED's to recover why cant my 12 yr old son take them also?

Lot of nice issues to discuss here, but all jumbled into a huge thought. So there are:

(1) Legal Issues
(1a) Can a 12 year old take PEDs without parental consent?
(1b) Are there any promulgated regulations by Regulatory Agencies, or Statutes by Congress that criminalize or punish ingestion?
(2) Medical Issues
(2a) Are there serious side effects associated with ingesting PEDS?
(2b) Can a PED be isolated to a specific body part in recovery?
(3) Ethical Issues
(3a) Are PEDs inherently wrong?
(3b) Are they wrong in the context of professional sports?
(3c) In the context of professional sports, is it ok if an Athlete uses PEDs to recover from a career-threatening injury? A non-career threatening injury?
(4) Implementation issues
(4a) How does an athlete know where to "inject" the PED?
(4b) What is the specific body part?
(4c) When is an athlete "injured"?
(4d) When does an athlete need "recovery"?
(4e) If we allowed usage of PEDs in career threatening injuries, how would that affect players who choose to opt-out (due to ethical/moral quandaries) and the overall league in respect to a "level playing field"?

thanks... never was good with the pen. B)