51 replies to this topic

[ChrisFarley]

With Denard Span being traded to Washington, looks like Revere will get everyday ABs atop the Twinkies lineup.

I'm hoping for a .290+ avg, 90-100 Runs, 50 SB!

What are your expectations?

[FouLLine]

The guy has the skills to lead the league in SBs next year.

[ChrisFarley]

What kind of projections do you see now that he is in Philly?

Hit leadoff and push Jroll lower in the order?

100 R and 50 SB potential?

[And Won]

Love this trade for the Phighting Phils. I think with that lineup around him 50 SB is the floor!!!!!

[baltimore_boy]

He should be good for 50 steals if he is at the top. The only concern would be if he struggles early and gets bumped down to the 8th spot. It is extremely challenging to steal from that position, so hopefully he avoids that.

As for the trade, I really don't understand why the Twins would trade him away. He's young, coming off a solid year, and is under control for like 5 more years. Also, why would they trade Span away if they wanted to trade Revere too. Who do they have left to play CF now?

[Timmah!]

baltimore_boy, on 06 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

He should be good for 50 steals if he is at the top. The only concern would be if he struggles early and gets bumped down to the 8th spot. It is extremely challenging to steal from that position, so hopefully he avoids that.

As for the trade, I really don't understand why the Twins would trade him away. He's young, coming off a solid year, and is under control for like 5 more years. Also, why would they trade Span away if they wanted to trade Revere too. Who do they have left to play CF now?

I'm not sure who's going to play CF; Yahoo's depth chart has Darin Mastroianni as the CF.  But they got a decent pitcher with a brief track record of success who should be ready to go in the spring.  May was one of the Phillies better SP prospects, even if he's coming off a rough year at AA.  Worley's not even arby-eligible yet, so they're getting cost-controlled quality pitching for many years.

Revere is cost-controlled, too, but has a low ceiling.  He's got speed and range afield, but he's also strictly a singles hitter who has a lower career OBP than Rollins and a noodle arm.  On a championship team, he's probably a 4th outfielder.  His BABIP has routinely been above league-average, to the point where you could argue he owns that and he could maintain a solid average.  Hopefully, he develops a plate approach where he'll draw more walks to take advantage of his speed.

[jsp2014]

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

[SurlyRobot]

Sucks to see him go but the Twins always hated his weak arm.  Mastroianni will probably play CF for the Twins now, Gardy really likes him and I think he feels like he owes him a shot after having him on the big league roster but barely using him for most of the year last year.

Back to Revere, if he is hitting leadoff I agree that 50 steals is his floor he is just crazy fast and I think the Phillies must think highly of him to give up Worley and a prospect so I think he'll have the green light and he won't be stuck with Span who doesn't like to steal in front of him and Mauer who doesn't like people stealing while he's at bat hitting behind him.

[FouLLine]

jsp2014, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

Ben Revere at 150 would be an absolute gem.

[jsp2014]

FouLLine, on 08 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

Ben Revere at 150 would be an absolute gem.

as I said, I think players like this are extremely overrated and are just not as good in reality as they are on paper. speed guys are fungible and if you start someone like this all year long you essentially have no shot at winning at HR and RBI, which is a tried and true keystone of my roto strategy. and in h2h I think they're arguably even worse.

actually, I should qualify that. in NL-only or 16+ team leagues, I would definitely draft Revere. in standard leagues I won't touch him.

Edited by jsp2014, 08 December 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Timmah!]

Nobody told Ben that real Philly cheese steaks don't have lettuce and tomato on them.

http://twitter.com/B...0923264/photo/1

[Beakman]

Timmah!, on 13 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Nobody told Ben that real Philly cheese steaks don't have lettuce and tomato on them.

http://twitter.com/B...0923264/photo/1

Whiz 'wit or bust.

[parrothead]

jsp2014, on 08 December 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

FouLLine, on 08 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

Ben Revere at 150 would be an absolute gem.

as I said, I think players like this are extremely overrated and are just not as good in reality as they are on paper. speed guys are fungible and if you start someone like this all year long you essentially have no shot at winning at HR and RBI, which is a tried and true keystone of my roto strategy. and in h2h I think they're arguably even worse.

actually, I should qualify that. in NL-only or 16+ team leagues, I would definitely draft Revere. in standard leagues I won't touch him.

I tend to agree 100%.  In our auction, a lot of these "bag only" type of guys tend to get overpriced, owners think they are gonna win a category with one guy or put them on the way.  But looking back at results in my league, finishing high in Stolen Bases is not a pathway to Championship.  13-team league, this years champ finished 6th, last years finished 7th in SBs, I think its just a matter of being aware to get guys who steal bases along with HR.

[FouLLine]

parrothead, on 13 December 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 08 December 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

FouLLine, on 08 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

Ben Revere at 150 would be an absolute gem.

as I said, I think players like this are extremely overrated and are just not as good in reality as they are on paper. speed guys are fungible and if you start someone like this all year long you essentially have no shot at winning at HR and RBI, which is a tried and true keystone of my roto strategy. and in h2h I think they're arguably even worse.

actually, I should qualify that. in NL-only or 16+ team leagues, I would definitely draft Revere. in standard leagues I won't touch him.

I tend to agree 100%.  In our auction, a lot of these "bag only" type of guys tend to get overpriced, owners think they are gonna win a category with one guy or put them on the way.  But looking back at results in my league, finishing high in Stolen Bases is not a pathway to Championship.  13-team league, this years champ finished 6th, last years finished 7th in SBs, I think its just a matter of being aware to get guys who steal bases along with HR.

Ben Revere has elite potential in average and runs as well.  But he also comes with the risk that he's young and could struggle.  But with how consistent he was last year along with the increase in home ball park and lineup I can't help but to think he is going to have a great year.

[Obscene_Domino]

Any word if he is batting lead off? I mean I see him stealing a ton of bases this year regardless of his order, just would affect his Run output.

[FouLLine]

FouLLine, on 13 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

parrothead, on 13 December 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 08 December 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

FouLLine, on 08 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

jsp2014, on 06 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

I hate to say never, but I never draft guys like this. first off, they kill you in RBI and HR, and secondly, speed-only OFs are one of the easiest player types to find on the WW every year. going to let someone else take him in the top 150.

Ben Revere at 150 would be an absolute gem.

as I said, I think players like this are extremely overrated and are just not as good in reality as they are on paper. speed guys are fungible and if you start someone like this all year long you essentially have no shot at winning at HR and RBI, which is a tried and true keystone of my roto strategy. and in h2h I think they're arguably even worse.

actually, I should qualify that. in NL-only or 16+ team leagues, I would definitely draft Revere. in standard leagues I won't touch him.

I tend to agree 100%.  In our auction, a lot of these "bag only" type of guys tend to get overpriced, owners think they are gonna win a category with one guy or put them on the way.  But looking back at results in my league, finishing high in Stolen Bases is not a pathway to Championship.  13-team league, this years champ finished 6th, last years finished 7th in SBs, I think its just a matter of being aware to get guys who steal bases along with HR.

Ben Revere has elite potential in average and runs as well.  But he also comes with the risk that he's young and could struggle.  But with how consistent he was last year along with the increase in home ball park and lineup I can't help but to think he is going to have a great year.

Ben Revere is so solid and already has nearly 1k MLB ABs that I expect nothing but improvement.

I think the guy raises his .294 BA at least 20 points this year as well as easily steals over 50 bases.

[cymbaline]

Juan Pierre is like 50-60 spots later in snake drafts than Revere.  Am I missing something?  Aren't they very similar players?
Neither have any power.  Pierre is far more established as a contributor in BA.

I probably won't roster either guy unless I need a raw SB guy.  If played all year, the deficits these 2-3 category guys create in HR and RBI is very difficult to overcome.

Edited by cymbaline, 30 March 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Obscene_Domino]

cymbaline, on 30 March 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Juan Pierre is like 50-60 spots later in snake drafts than Revere.  Am I missing something?  Aren't they very similar players?
Neither have any power.  Pierre is far more established as a contributor in BA.

I probably won't roster either guy unless I need a raw SB guy.  If played all year, the deficits these 2-3 category guys create in HR and RBI is very difficult to overcome.

Yeah they are virtually the same player, but give me the 24-year old in the seemingly resurgent lineup in Philly. I don't think it's difficult to over come his 0 HR and 20-30 RBI totals, if you draft according and get big bats early. Take Revere late, you know what you're getting. #4-5 OF type possibly a Util spot.

[cymbaline]

Obscene_Domino, on 30 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

cymbaline, on 30 March 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Juan Pierre is like 50-60 spots later in snake drafts than Revere.  Am I missing something?  Aren't they very similar players?
Neither have any power.  Pierre is far more established as a contributor in BA.

I probably won't roster either guy unless I need a raw SB guy.  If played all year, the deficits these 2-3 category guys create in HR and RBI is very difficult to overcome.

Yeah they are virtually the same player, but give me the 24-year old in the seemingly resurgent lineup in Philly. I don't think it's difficult to over come his 0 HR and 20-30 RBI totals, if you draft according and get big bats early. Take Revere late, you know what you're getting. #4-5 OF type possibly a Util spot.

Strongly agree that Revere is preferred due to age but the point remains that this guy isn't really a value if he's going in the 150's and being used as an OF4/OF5.  Pierre is the value play, albeit with significant downside.

As for whether a team can overcome a homerless guy, this is highly dependent on league formats.  Deep mixers and 5 OF formats have a better shot of compensating for such shortcomings.  3 OF leagues or shallows -- Revere is probably being overdrafted.

[Obscene_Domino]

cymbaline, on 30 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Obscene_Domino, on 30 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

cymbaline, on 30 March 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Juan Pierre is like 50-60 spots later in snake drafts than Revere.  Am I missing something?  Aren't they very similar players?
Neither have any power.  Pierre is far more established as a contributor in BA.

I probably won't roster either guy unless I need a raw SB guy.  If played all year, the deficits these 2-3 category guys create in HR and RBI is very difficult to overcome.

Yeah they are virtually the same player, but give me the 24-year old in the seemingly resurgent lineup in Philly. I don't think it's difficult to over come his 0 HR and 20-30 RBI totals, if you draft according and get big bats early. Take Revere late, you know what you're getting. #4-5 OF type possibly a Util spot.

Strongly agree that Revere is preferred due to age but the point remains that this guy isn't really a value if he's going in the 150's and being used as an OF4/OF5.  Pierre is the value play, albeit with significant downside.

As for whether a team can overcome a homerless guy, this is highly dependent on league formats.  Deep mixers and 5 OF formats have a better shot of compensating for such shortcomings.  3 OF leagues or shallows -- Revere is probably being overdrafted.

Yeah, I think it definitely depends on your league. If you're starting 3 OF I doubt you're touching Revere maybe as a spot starter, but in 5 OF or deeper leagues, in which you're fishing for SB without getting hurt in AVG/R (Everth Cabrera) he's a good play IMO.

Pierre is 35 and just too risky in my eyes. The big obvious for me is that lineup too. While the return investment might be even on Revere, I see him as the better play.