16 replies to this topic

[Patrick Bateman]

They already acquired Michael Young to play 3b and now.....Are they trying to get the All-I can't play Defense and should be a DH on an AL squad team???  I would love to see how Doc or Lee react to seeing the left side of that defense with Young playing the hot corner and Soriano patrolling LF when they toe the rubber....Ha, ha, ha.  Probably won't happen, but all they need is Andruw Jones in CF.

Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reports that the Phillies have explored a trade for the Cubs' Alfonso Soriano.
One scenario would involve Domonic Brown heading to Chicago straight up for the veteran outfielder, but Heyman thinks that's unlikely to happen. Soriano, 36, batted .262/.322/.499 with 32 home runs and 108 RBI in 151 games this past summer for the Cubs. He's owed a total of $36 million over the next two seasons.

[Patrick Bateman]

And another rumor that they offered Josh Hamilton.....Apparently they have money to burn....

Glen Macnow ‏@RealGlenMacnow  
My radio partner, Anthony Gargano, has it from a good source that the Phils have offered Josh Hamilton a three-year contract.

[Ragnaroker]

Apparently they are exploring a trade involving Alfonso Soriano... Doubtful.

[Timmah!]

I think it was Jayson Stark (or was it David Murphy?) who suggested earlier that they could get Hamilton for 3 years/$80 million, and wondered out loud why the Rangers wouldn't simply match that or bump it up.

We'll see....if it does happen, maybe they platoon Ruf and Brown alongside Hamilton and Revere.

[South Jersey Bombers]

I love Ruben and trust he an Pat Gill know what they are doing.... They will win the NL East next year. Put it on the board.

[AdamPA1006]

I dont care about all these old washups we are getting ruf deserves to be out there. We have no prospects our system has to be one of the worst. May was overrated but whatever. Im gonna make a list one day all the good prospects we traded  away

[Lebowski87]

this team will stay healthy, bunch of spring chickens...

[RAEF715]

South Jersey Bombers, on 11 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I love Ruben and trust he an Pat Gill know what they are doing.... They will win the NL East next year. Put it on the board.

on what basis do you trust Ruben? even if you liked some moves before, he is extremely limited now by money limitations and a lack of prospects;
he filled a hole in center, but created one in the rotation with the revere trade; not opposed to the idea of trading Worley like Happ before him, but how do we trade two arms for Revere and Wash trades one for Span? and if Halladay struggles and Kendrick reverts to the Kendrick of old, you're done.

larger than that, i just dont understand what the plan is- are we trying to win now or win in the future? Young (maybe) helps you this year only, while Revere is growing into being a guy who can help you in the future.

some people argue they got Young to recruit Hamilton; but they also helped Texas with some salary for this year (that might help them re-sign Josh) and Bonilla might be a guy they will miss out of the pen the next few years- the Texas GM did a great job there.

using the 20 million to sign Cody Ross, a 5th starter and a set-up guy isnt exciting, but its probably the most prudent way to go at this point

[Timmah!]

Phils added a couple of arms overnight, first Mike Adams to handle the 8th inning and the John Lannan for the back end of the rotation.

If Adams proves to be fully recovered, the 8th-9th innings should be locked down. Lannan has always struggled against the Phillies, but did reasonably well against the rest of the league.   My guess is that Kyle Kendrick will be the other starter.

Now to add a couple more bats...

[South Jersey Bombers]

RAEF715, on 13 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

South Jersey Bombers, on 11 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I love Ruben and trust he an Pat Gill know what they are doing.... They will win the NL East next year. Put it on the board.

on what basis do you trust Ruben? even if you liked some moves before, he is extremely limited now by money limitations and a lack of prospects;
he filled a hole in center, but created one in the rotation with the revere trade; not opposed to the idea of trading Worley like Happ before him, but how do we trade two arms for Revere and Wash trades one for Span? and if Halladay struggles and Kendrick reverts to the Kendrick of old, you're done.

larger than that, i just dont understand what the plan is- are we trying to win now or win in the future? Young (maybe) helps you this year only, while Revere is growing into being a guy who can help you in the future.

some people argue they got Young to recruit Hamilton; but they also helped Texas with some salary for this year (that might help them re-sign Josh) and Bonilla might be a guy they will miss out of the pen the next few years- the Texas GM did a great job there.

using the 20 million to sign Cody Ross, a 5th starter and a set-up guy isnt exciting, but its probably the most prudent way to go at this point

This is the typical attitude that gives us philly fan base a bad name....we have a GM that will stop at nothing to see us win, he will spend the money and make the moves every single year. Maybe your pretty young, or maybe you and some of the other philly fans dont quite get what it was like to watch baseball in the 90's and see year after year of piss poor baseball, managers come and go, starts run out of town before something was thrown at them. This set of leaders in our front office has proved time an time again that we will compete and we will fight for a championship every year. So what last year we had 1 billion injuries, we took on water but we stayed afloat. The phillies, my phillies, the team i cried over and screamed in joy over is always now mentioned with the Yankees and Red Sox and constantlty one of the best teams in not only the NL but the MLB. Ruben has brought in a young CF, a relaible RP, and a solid #5 SP...We still have some $$ left and will disperse it accordingly. This goes to all the "Know-it-all" Philly fans, stop acting like you know our prospects better then the FO, stop acting like you could manage our budget better then the FO, stop bitching anc moaning if we dont get every single Free Agent you want. Let the people in charge of the team handle all that, and be grateful we arent a loosing franchise anymore. GO PHILS!!!

[avatoot]

AdamPA1006, on 11 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

I dont care about all these old washups we are getting ruf deserves to be out there. We have no prospects our system has to be one of the worst. May was overrated but whatever. Im gonna make a list one day all the good prospects we traded  away

Agreed. Ruf should be a major part of the plans just like when Howard came up.

RW Blurb:

Darin Ruf hit his league-leading 11th home run of the Venezuelan Winter League Sunday.
Ruf has continued to mash after belting 38 homers at Double-A and three in 33 late-season at-bats for the Phillies. The Phils have also received positive reports on his defense in left field, though we're skeptical that he'll ever be even an average defender out there. But, there's no doubt that the bat is intriguing, and he could compete for a starting job in spring training. Source: Minor League Blog on Twitter Nov. 19 - 8:39 am et

[RAEF715]

South Jersey Bombers, on 17 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

RAEF715, on 13 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

South Jersey Bombers, on 11 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

I love Ruben and trust he an Pat Gill know what they are doing.... They will win the NL East next year. Put it on the board.

on what basis do you trust Ruben? even if you liked some moves before, he is extremely limited now by money limitations and a lack of prospects;
he filled a hole in center, but created one in the rotation with the revere trade; not opposed to the idea of trading Worley like Happ before him, but how do we trade two arms for Revere and Wash trades one for Span? and if Halladay struggles and Kendrick reverts to the Kendrick of old, you're done.

larger than that, i just dont understand what the plan is- are we trying to win now or win in the future? Young (maybe) helps you this year only, while Revere is growing into being a guy who can help you in the future.

some people argue they got Young to recruit Hamilton; but they also helped Texas with some salary for this year (that might help them re-sign Josh) and Bonilla might be a guy they will miss out of the pen the next few years- the Texas GM did a great job there.

using the 20 million to sign Cody Ross, a 5th starter and a set-up guy isnt exciting, but its probably the most prudent way to go at this point

This is the typical attitude that gives us philly fan base a bad name....we have a GM that will stop at nothing to see us win, he will spend the money and make the moves every single year. Maybe your pretty young, or maybe you and some of the other philly fans dont quite get what it was like to watch baseball in the 90's and see year after year of piss poor baseball, managers come and go, starts run out of town before something was thrown at them. This set of leaders in our front office has proved time an time again that we will compete and we will fight for a championship every year. So what last year we had 1 billion injuries, we took on water but we stayed afloat. The phillies, my phillies, the team i cried over and screamed in joy over is always now mentioned with the Yankees and Red Sox and constantlty one of the best teams in not only the NL but the MLB. Ruben has brought in a young CF, a relaible RP, and a solid #5 SP...We still have some $$ left and will disperse it accordingly. This goes to all the "Know-it-all" Philly fans, stop acting like you know our prospects better then the FO, stop acting like you could manage our budget better then the FO, stop bitching anc moaning if we dont get every single Free Agent you want. Let the people in charge of the team handle all that, and be grateful we arent a loosing franchise anymore. GO PHILS!!!

im probably older than you and ive watched more than my fair share of the 10,000 plus losses...
im not one to say that Amaro has screwed up everything, but i asked you what he has done to earn your trust?
this team was built by the guys drafted under Ed Wade, and then fine tuned by Pat Gillick (who in all fairness scrweed up tremendously with the Freddy Garcia deal, but we're not expecting perfection).
Ruben took over, and despite being able to outspend anytime in the national league (until the dodgers now), in three short years they've become now an aged team with out any stud prospects- so my question was, what are we trying to do right now? fill in some gaps and hope we can piece one more run together, or take a step back and try to reload? his moves seem like he's trying to go an in between route that wont be enough now and wont put us in the best position going forward..

give me a great contract decision he has made..normally it seems he overpays (howard, papelbon)or blinks in giving extra years on deals (see jamie moyer, polanco, ibanez)...
halladay was a great trade but that somewhat fell into his lap; cliff lee was a great trade but he turned around and made a worse trade when he dealt him...

am i supposed to be excited now that he traded two arms for a young cf (but one with a worse obp than rollins, no throwing arm and no career homers), threw 6 million at a set up man coming off an injury and with declining velocity, and signed a starting pitcher that the Nats didnt want?
i wasnt proposing he overpay a Hamilton or some of these other free agents, im just not seeing what gives anyone reason to believe that Amaro has a plan that is going to be successful, short term, or long term.

fans are required to check their brains at the door and believe that the front office will always do the right thing just because they are the front office..just walk across the street to the eagles front office for plenty of evidence of that.

[cyberer]

I pretty much agree with 100% of what the last poster said. As a Philly resident who's been going to Clearwater every year for years I've seen my share of stuff as well. Ruben has really ridden the coat tails of the team that was built before him. Don't forget that our director of scouting who left, arbuckle is his name maybe? Put the team together as well.

Honestly Ruben has made big splashes, but none Of his moves can really be said to have panned out if you watch the teams trajectory since then.

When he traded for halladay, he turned around and traded an entire season of cliff lee for Philippe aumont. The mariners later traded a HALF SEASON of lee for Justin smoak. Smoak is a bust, but back then was an elite prospect. Ruben got below average returns for lee and it has hurt our prospect pipeline.

Resigning lee energized the fan base but we needed bats more, and it showed in the stretch in 2011. The pence trade was awesome in that regard, but was not enough to overcome the strategic mistake of signing lee when he didn't fill a need.

Fast forward to 2012, Ruben signed a bunch of scrappy competitors to fill in like the giants and cardinals did against us in the past. these moves actually panned out, but the core team was hurt and old and ineffective. Not entirely Rubens fault- these things happen. Also, passing on aramis for Rollins was likely a huge mistake. Aramis and galvis vs polanco and Rollins would have been a huge upgrade.

During the season and after the season, the wheels came off the bus for Ruben. He traded victorino and 2 years of pence and got exactly 0 real prospects back, continuing the sad precedent of the lee for aumont deal. I was livid watching other teams get bigger hauls for lesser talents. But we got a lot of money off the books to spend this offseason.

However Ruben and the phillies as a whole don't subscribe to sabermetrics by and large, I read an interview to that extent one time. It has really showed this offseason, as Rubens prizes have been revere (whom he overpaid for on the basis of the meaningless stats of average and stolen bases without even considering his underlying metrics), and Michael young, whose ops was in the 600s last year. On the surface the moves look ok, and unfortunately that's all Ruben looks at.

Similar problems abound in the phillies Rumored pursuit of Alfonso soriano and Vernon wells.

The last poster nailed it- Ruben should either blow up the ship or go all out and he's doing neither.

I give Ruben credit for the halladay and pence deals, but it ends there. His body of work tells me he's overmatched at talent evaluation at the major and minor league level, which has been his main problem despite the fact that he's good at negotiating trades. Nothing he has done gives me any confidence in him.

The pence trade, like the halladay trade was a good one.

[Timmah!]

cyberer, on 20 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I pretty much agree with 100% of what the last poster said. As a Philly resident who's been going to Clearwater every year for years I've seen my share of stuff as well. Ruben has really ridden the coat tails of the team that was built before him. Don't forget that our director of scouting who left, arbuckle is his name maybe? Put the team together as well.

Honestly Ruben has made big splashes, but none Of his moves can really be said to have panned out if you watch the teams trajectory since then.

When he traded for halladay, he turned around and traded an entire season of cliff lee for Philippe aumont. The mariners later traded a HALF SEASON of lee for Justin smoak. Smoak is a bust, but back then was an elite prospect. Ruben got below average returns for lee and it has hurt our prospect pipeline.

Resigning lee energized the fan base but we needed bats more, and it showed in the stretch in 2011. The pence trade was awesome in that regard, but was not enough to overcome the strategic mistake of signing lee when he didn't fill a need.

Fast forward to 2012, Ruben signed a bunch of scrappy competitors to fill in like the giants and cardinals did against us in the past. these moves actually panned out, but the core team was hurt and old and ineffective. Not entirely Rubens fault- these things happen. Also, passing on aramis for Rollins was likely a huge mistake. Aramis and galvis vs polanco and Rollins would have been a huge upgrade.

During the season and after the season, the wheels came off the bus for Ruben. He traded victorino and 2 years of pence and got exactly 0 real prospects back, continuing the sad precedent of the lee for aumont deal. I was livid watching other teams get bigger hauls for lesser talents. But we got a lot of money off the books to spend this offseason.

However Ruben and the phillies as a whole don't subscribe to sabermetrics by and large, I read an interview to that extent one time. It has really showed this offseason, as Rubens prizes have been revere (whom he overpaid for on the basis of the meaningless stats of average and stolen bases without even considering his underlying metrics), and Michael young, whose ops was in the 600s last year. On the surface the moves look ok, and unfortunately that's all Ruben looks at.

Similar problems abound in the phillies Rumored pursuit of Alfonso soriano and Vernon wells.

The last poster nailed it- Ruben should either blow up the ship or go all out and he's doing neither.

I give Ruben credit for the halladay and pence deals, but it ends there. His body of work tells me he's overmatched at talent evaluation at the major and minor league level, which has been his main problem despite the fact that he's good at negotiating trades. Nothing he has done gives me any confidence in him.

The pence trade, like the halladay trade was a good one.

Thank you, I was going to reply citing Mike Arbuckle as possibly being an even bigger part of assembling the '08 WS team than Ed Wade.  Yes, Wade was the GM who (I'm guessing) had final say on picks.  But it was Arbuckle and his team who scouted, signed, and developed the nucleus of the Champs.  He's never gotten nearly enough credit for doing so.

As far as the FA mistake is concerned, I'm very curious to know what on Earth led them to think that Polanco was a better option at 3rd than Adrian Beltre.  Yeah, I know, Beltre wanted $$$$ and years, but investing in him would have not only addressed the need for RH power but it would have given them a desperately needed 2nd bat to Pence during early last season when they had no offense and they floundered.  Amaro doesn't get nearly enough grief for that.

Lost in the trade discussion over the past few days is that the Blue Jays originally got Travis d'Arnaud from the Phils in the Halladay deal.  If he reaches his expected potential of All Star status against the Phillies while Halladay continues to age (at an advanced salary)?....hoo boy.

[cyberer]

We didn't win with halladay, but we came close. Regardless of what d arnaud becomes, getting the cy young level production for 2 years and his epic postseason performances justify that move IMO.

I forgot about the beltre thing. That's another big Ruben fail.

[RAEF715]

yes, i cant rip the halladay trade even if d'arnaud becomes an all star...
in rubes defense, he did get ethan martin in the victorino trade and tommy joseph in the pence trade, who are in the organizations top 10 right now (while admittedly that is a weakened top 10 right now)
and they signed polanco the year beltre took a 1 year deal from boston and showed what he could do in a better lineup and ballpark; not sure philly was really an option there (and his agent is boras i think)...giving polanco the third year was questionable, but at least they didnt give chone figgins big money (by the way, how did polanco get 2.75 from the marlins? im almost surprised polanco didnt have to settle for a minor league contract)

local radio host said the thought of signing ross was like getting socks for christmas...id say vernon wells would be like getting a fruitcake....

[cyberer]

Phillies hitting rock bottom. Pretty bad when your 3 OF are hitting 6-7-8 in your lineup.