32 replies to this topic

[Silky Silks]

Hey all I was just curious about the role of streaming in other leagues. How many moves do managers usually make in your league and do managers consistently leave spots empty on their team to stream?

My league has no games or transactions limits. In it, the amount of streaming a team does correlates directly with how active and competitive a team is and thus with their place in the standing. For example, 5 out of the top 6 ranked teams have over 100 moves. If you remove my team from that 5 than the 4 remaining teams have over 140 moves and 2 of the top 6 teams have 175 and *215* moves. No team outside of the top 6 has over 100 moves. Another reason for 5 of the top 6 teams having more moves is that they all have condensed talent into 4-6 high ranked players (approx top 30-40) and 2-4 slightly lower ranked players (approx top 75). The rest of the spots on their teams are used for streaming. So many teams have 3-5 stream spots on their roster in a 12 roster spot league. These spaces give these managers advantages in games played and stats that improve with more games (everything besides %s and TOs) and also gives them space to pick up a Sanders, Parsons, Vucevic, etc. that pops up as well as a Granger, Rose, etc. type of stash. In my league, streaming gives a distinct advantage.

However (don't want to make this an AC post but I feel this is important) my team at the moment is built completely differently. My team lacks a first round talent (thanks Dwill!) but has multiple 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round talents. I basically have the deepest team in a stream heavy league. My team has NO STREAM SPOTS as of now (unless Jarrett Jack cools off). I had recently made a 2 for 1 trade which was in the other owners favor specifically to clear up a stream spot but was lucky enough to log on a minute after an owner in my league dropped Ilyasova before his explosion (to stream the spot, ironic). I promptly picked him up and have been happy ever since. Now I'm out of stream spots again. So yesterday I was up against Brandon Jennings, Kevin Durant, Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, Rodney Stuckey and Jeff Green with just my Ersan and if Ersan hadn't exploded I would be in a serious hole. To make things worse my team has a great playoff schedule week 21 but has pretty terrible schedules weeks 22 and 23. So those streaming spots are going to be important if I want to win. Last year I had a mediocre team that made it to the finals thanks to an explosion by Melo and **3 streams spots**. I am unlikely to find another good 2 for 1 and I don't have any droppable players so I may be out of luck.

Basically I am wondering if my league is weird or is this happening elsewhere? And do people have any idea if it is possible to win in the playoffs without stream spots?

Sorry for the long possibly AC type post but I am kind of lost about what to do here. Let me know if I should move this to the AC forum, but I felt like it could start a solid discussion.

[TheGreatUnwashed]

A typical league will put weekly transaction limits to curb this kind of behavior. In my league that is 4 moves per week, which I feel is a pretty good number.

[v3xinated]

If you're in a position where you cant think of who to drop to stream...then you're in a pretty good position. Personally I think if youre at the top of your league, streaming is less important. I've been struggling in mine which also has no limits (I've only played in those type of leagues if that matters at all) so I've been streaming daily. As for the playoffs...depending on the player, his output in 2 games can match another plays 3 games and so forth so you can determine droppability on that. Also, why not do 1-1 trades for players with more favorable playoff schedules?

TLDR; Not too unusual? IMO depends on where you are standing wise. Consider trading specifically for playoffs.

[tremixt]

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

Edited by tremixt, 23 January 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[VeganZombies]

Without a move limit, streaming should be the ideal strategy. Games played has a positive impact on every cat except TO  and %. It shouldn't hurt % too much so you win 6 cats and lose out on 1.

It's not against the rules, but move limits are the standard now from what I can tell.

[TheGreatUnwashed]

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

Disagree, but only in leagues with no transaction limits. In those leagues, the most active managers win because they're maximizing their GP for the week. No amount of perfectly drafted talen can match that.

Your no-transaction limit league sucks! Be careful to avoid it next year.

[VeganZombies]

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

According to his league, if you ain't streaming you ain't winning.

[soudeska]

no limit is kinda bs in my opinion. I have been dealing with the same problem on a lesser scale. my league is 4 moves but unlimited total moves. My advice would be become best friends with the guy who is in last place. Start offering 2 for 1 deals with you getting the best player in the trade but with him getting overall the better deal. This way you have streaming spots but at the same time you aren't worried about him as a threat. This of course depends on how many people make playoffs how close the playoff race is etc. For example i gave away dragic and nowitski for Irving. I didn't end up using it as a stream spot though since someone was so frustrated he dropped Gasol and no one else wanted to touch him.

Also start targeting knicks players. NY and MIN have the best schedules but MIN has zero fantasy appeal in my opinion.

Edited by soudeska, 23 January 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[pnoozi]

Weekly edits ftw?  With a 10-man starting roster you usually count 35-40 games per week, and Yahoo has a handy "Opponents" tab to check out how many games each of your guys plays that week.

Edited by pnoozi, 23 January 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[tremixt]

VeganZombies, on 23 January 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

According to his league, if you ain't streaming you ain't winning.

Uh, right?

I don't play in 10 team leagues and below, so maybe I'm out of my element on this question. If we're talking about standard to deep leagues, then someone who relies on streaming is most likely going to struggle. At this point in the season, in most competitive leagues, all the valuable players are rostered. Even guys like Bogut and Granger are on rosters. So you're most likely not going to be adding much positive value to your team by constantly working the wire for extra games.

Edited by tremixt, 23 January 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Straight Outta CPT]

It's a huge advantage in the short term in H2H leagues. In a typical public league, I bet a competent manager can forfeit all his draft picks, pick up 5 long-term free agents to keep for the season, and stream the other 8 spots into a playoff spot with no problem. If you do make the playoffs with a normal team, you can easily beat a better team that doesn't stream by converting 3 borderline roster spots into 10-12 extra games per week.

It's not a fun tactic and that's why I stick to roto now.

[v3xinated]

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

/raises hand

Yep.

[visoring]

I'm commissioner of my league and implemented the 4 moves a week limit when we started--seems to work out nicely so there is still flexibility to stream/make moves, but at the same time not let some team try and completely be top heavy and stream every night.

[rdubs23]

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

VeganZombies, on 23 January 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just quickly skimmed your post, but I'll offer my two cents.

1.Draft well.
2. Exercise patience.
3. Be smart when you work the waiver wire.

Personally, I can't stand leagues where there are no transaction limits. Making 123 moves in the first 5 weeks of fantasy season is simply unforgivable and 99.9% of the time, that owner isn't a threat anyway.

Basically, my motto is, "If you streamin, you aint winnin."

According to his league, if you ain't streaming you ain't winning.

Uh, right?

I don't play in 10 team leagues and below, so maybe I'm out of my element on this question. If we're talking about standard to deep leagues, then someone who relies on streaming is most likely going to struggle. At this point in the season, in most competitive leagues, all the valuable players are rostered. Even guys like Bogut and Granger are on rosters. So you're most likely not going to be adding much positive value to your team by constantly working the wire for extra games.

I play in 14 team league competitive cash leagues, 10 moves per week max, and if you arent streaming, you are blowing it. Obviously all the "valuable" players are rostered, but there are plenty of players who have "value" in certain categories. The leaders in the league generally are always making the most moves as well.

[Silky Silks]

Seems like the amount of streaming really depends on the settings as I suspected. My league never implented the transactions limit because they love picking up and dropping FAs. They LOVE it. It's what makes the league competitive as people have been known to get up at 3 in the morning (I've done it!) just to get a player on the FA list. And sometimes people get lucky and pick up guys like Jeremy Lin or Goran Dragic and they end up difference makers. I enjoy it too and I feel like Ersan might be the next guy like this (even though he was expected to do it before the season started).

My only concern is that my team isn't built to stream any more and I think I may have to look for another 2 for 1 trade (though its hard to trade in my league).

It really seems like my league is the most stream heavy league I've heard of. It's crazy how a guy has 215 moves and it isn't even ASB yet! I love the league and I wasn't trying to complain I was little frustrated that I was stuck without any spots after I made a trade to specifically clear up a spot. In my league the moto is certainly "if you ain't streaming you definitely ain't winning."

[Silky Silks]

Straight Outta CPT, on 23 January 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

It's a huge advantage in the short term in H2H leagues. In a typical public league, I bet a competent manager can forfeit all his draft picks, pick up 5 long-term free agents to keep for the season, and stream the other 8 spots into a playoff spot with no problem. If you do make the playoffs with a normal team, you can easily beat a better team that doesn't stream by converting 3 borderline roster spots into 10-12 extra games per week.

It's not a fun tactic and that's why I stick to roto now.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I drafted where I thought the last few picks I took we're going to be droppable players and I made a couple 2 for 1s to concentrate my talent. Turns out my late picks were great picks and my "concentrated talent" has turned into depth.

But leaving roster spots for streaming is how the smart managers succeed in my league and it can be fun and annoying at the same time.

[VeganZombies]

Straight Outta CPT, on 23 January 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

It's a huge advantage in the short term in H2H leagues. In a typical public league, I bet a competent manager can forfeit all his draft picks, pick up 5 long-term free agents to keep for the season, and stream the other 8 spots into a playoff spot with no problem. If you do make the playoffs with a normal team, you can easily beat a better team that doesn't stream by converting 3 borderline roster spots into 10-12 extra games per week.

It's not a fun tactic and that's why I stick to roto now.

I'm pretty sure this is why Yahoo added the 4 move week in standard leagues. Probably a few wisecracks decided I'll just win by drafting lebron and durant and just stream their way to a championship.

Edited by VeganZombies, 23 January 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[Silky Silks]

soudeska, on 23 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

no limit is kinda bs in my opinion. I have been dealing with the same problem on a lesser scale. my league is 4 moves but unlimited total moves. My advice would be become best friends with the guy who is in last place. Start offering 2 for 1 deals with you getting the best player in the trade but with him getting overall the better deal. This way you have streaming spots but at the same time you aren't worried about him as a threat. This of course depends on how many people make playoffs how close the playoff race is etc. For example i gave away dragic and nowitski for Irving. I didn't end up using it as a stream spot though since someone was so frustrated he dropped Gasol and no one else wanted to touch him.

Also start targeting knicks players. NY and MIN have the best schedules but MIN has zero fantasy appeal in my opinion.

The last place team is who I traded with for the 2 for 1 I mentioned early haha. Sounds like you and I are on the same wave length with 2 for 1s since I lost the spot thanks to a frustrated Ersan owner. I think I will be fine for now but when playoff time comes I may be in trouble.

It is almost impossible to pry the good playoff schedule players out of their owners' hands. Smoove, Chandler, Conley, Horford, Gay, Wall are all guys I have tried and failed to get. Felton is a possibility but I don't like his FG%.

Edited by Silky Silks, 23 January 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[TheWhiteMamba]

I used to do it pretty often in the past. It's nice to do for a month or so but I don't think its a good idea to do all year. However if you see a guy on the wire you have a feeling will break out at some point and want to have someone to drop for him when that happens is a decent plan. I was streaming for about a week or so until I stumbled upon Larry Sanders lol

[VeganZombies]

tremixt, on 23 January 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Uh, right?

I don't play in 10 team leagues and below, so maybe I'm out of my element on this question. If we're talking about standard to deep leagues, then someone who relies on streaming is most likely going to struggle. At this point in the season, in most competitive leagues, all the valuable players are rostered. Even guys like Bogut and Granger are on rosters. So you're most likely not going to be adding much positive value to your team by constantly working the wire for extra games.

Streaming works just as well in standard to deep leagues. Players value is relative to one another.

If you're playing a 20 team league your worse 3-4 players would probably be something like Bismack, Mike Miller, Udohm, Tony Douglas Does it really matter that you're streaming guys like Haslem, Jerebko, Reggie Evans, Ellington, Bayless, etc? They're still going to produce more than your 3 worst guys by a lot.