40 replies to this topic

[GottaGetTheWin]

Bell obviously isn't the flashiest name in the NFL but he was a pretty good performer last year, especially in a PPR.   He helped a lot of teams down the stretch and I wonder what people think he can bring this year.  

He's not the biggest guy on the field and 100% not the most talented but he's shifty and seems to always get positive yardage.  He was way more dynamic than Mikel LeShoure and I personally think he should get the shot to be the starting RB with LeShoure has short yardage and goal line back.

Can this guy be a viable Flex in a PPR league.  DO the lions go out and sign someone else?

[rraayy3]

He should've been the starting RB last year. He was much better than Leshoure and his skillset actually fits the offense better too. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Bell/Leshoure next year ... I doubt they spend a high pick/free agent money on another RB - especially with so many holes on defense and an offensive system that throws 99% of the time anyway.

Bell as the starter/3rd down back and Leshoure as the short yardage back makes a lot of sense ... but this is the Lions we're talking about.

[cbe_88]

Right, Schwartz will keep trying to make his "prized" 2nd round pick in Leshoure to be a "stud" in his backfield. Bell is the better back and has more the yardage/reception upside, but Leshoure is the one with the true TD-upside, it's pretty maddening. These two split pretty evenly which makes either of them guys I'd rather avoid. Leshoure is the true lock for carries, and even though he's not very good, he can have a multi-TD game simply because of the offense he's in. I'll likely avoid both of these but I might think about Leshoure next year because I like cheap TD-upside.

[pikerbkb]

I own Leshoure in a dynasty league and I am holding out some hope that he improves on what was essentially his rookie year coming off of that Achilles injury and suspension. I think that a good percentage of his problems last season were his lack of burst, decision-making and patience, things that should improve as he gains more confidence in his injured leg and gets more comfortable in passing situations and the 2 min. drill/hurry up offense. Schwartz obviously inserted Bell in passing situations because Bell had more experience and performed better in those situations. This upcoming season I think that Leshoure will be given every chance to take more of the full load and if he proves that he is up to it, he could end up being a nice RB3/flex with RB2 upside.....I still think that the Lions go after another change of pace speed back in the draft to take the place of Best. Maybe Bernard or Ellington, somebody like that.

[cbe_88]

You really blame all of Leshoure's lack of burst on the torn achilles? Interesting, could be true but he also just might not be that quicker guy with more burst, he might just be more of a bruiser that is a lock for carries that thrives much better in goalline and short yardage situations. I think there is production to be had by another back in this backfield whether it's Bell or a FA pickup or draft pick. I loved Leshoure adding receptions to his value until Bell emerged as the clear dynamic back. Again I love his nice and cheap td upside but his yardage totals will prbably always hold back his value.

[pikerbkb]

cbe_88, on 11 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

You really blame all of Leshoure's lack of burst on the torn achilles? Interesting, could be true but he also just might not be that quicker guy with more burst, he might just be more of a bruiser that is a lock for carries that thrives much better in goalline and short yardage situations. I think there is production to be had by another back in this backfield whether it's Bell or a FA pickup or draft pick. I loved Leshoure adding receptions to his value until Bell emerged as the clear dynamic back. Again I love his nice and cheap td upside but his yardage totals will probably always hold back his value.

We both know Leshoure will never be an elusive, lateral type runner. He is straight ahead or one-cut type runner. Like you said, a bruiser but with a little wiggle. I like Bell too, but the guy making the money always gets a chance to play and that is Leshoure.

I also like Leshoure's upside this season compared to Bell. I really think a lot (not all) of Bell's success came from when and in what situations he was inserted into games vs. when Leshoure was in games. Think about it. When Leshoure was in games the defense was keyed on run plays right? Early down, short yardage, goal line. Everybody knew there was a pretty good chance Leshoure was getting the rock when he was in. Bell was inserted on longer down and distance plays, passing situations, hurry-up....the defense is going to be spread out and guessing a bit more, trying to keep a lid on Megatron, Pettigrew, young, whoever. It follows that Bell would probably have more/bigger holes to run through and more space once he got to the second level of the defense. Just saying.

If Leshoure is given a chance to assume more passing down work and Bell is phased into more of a "breather back" role I like Leshoure's chances to have a bit of a breakout season simply because he will be getting significantly more touches and he will be one more year removed from the Achilles injury and a more experienced, seasoned runner.

Of course he could decide to smoke pot and eat Doritos all off-season and check into camp at 260, but I am hoping he steps it up.

[cbe_88]

pikerbkb, on 12 February 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

We both know Leshoure will never be an elusive, lateral type runner. He is straight ahead or one-cut type runner. Like you said, a bruiser but with a little wiggle. I like Bell too, but the guy making the money always gets a chance to play and that is Leshoure.

I also like Leshoure's upside this season compared to Bell. I really think a lot (not all) of Bell's success came from when and in what situations he was inserted into games vs. when Leshoure was in games. Think about it. When Leshoure was in games the defense was keyed on run plays right? Early down, short yardage, goal line. Everybody knew there was a pretty good chance Leshoure was getting the rock when he was in. Bell was inserted on longer down and distance plays, passing situations, hurry-up....the defense is going to be spread out and guessing a bit more, trying to keep a lid on Megatron, Pettigrew, young, whoever. It follows that Bell would probably have more/bigger holes to run through and more space once he got to the second level of the defense. Just saying.

If Leshoure is given a chance to assume more passing down work and Bell is phased into more of a "breather back" role I like Leshoure's chances to have a bit of a breakout season simply because he will be getting significantly more touches and he will be one more year removed from the Achilles injury and a more experienced, seasoned runner.

Of course he could decide to smoke pot and eat Doritos all off-season and check into camp at 260, but I am hoping he steps it up.

I like the analysis, but I see no evidence Bell gets downgraded to simply being a "breather" for Leshoure next year. Bell seemed to do well enough to be budging his way into significant playing time. 3rd and long, hurry-up and come-from-behind game situations I see Bell still maintaining all of that territory, unfortunately.

Like I said, Ideally, I'll pass on either of these guys, but could consider Leshoure if I wait a little too long at RB in my draft. He's got a real shot at a multi-TD game every sunday in that offense, not in love with Leshoure as a player but his situation and his role is attractive enough to consider him.

[GottaGetTheWin]

I'm not NFL scout but from what I saw on TV Bell just looked like the better back.  He was more elusive, had better lateral movement and burst, and was overall a harder player to bring down than LeShoure.  Bell would run into the line and somehow find some space and then burst through it.  I'm not saying he's the biggest, fastest, or most elusive guy on the field but at the end of the day its the results that count.  I don't remember season average but I do remember that near the end of the season when he was getting more consistent carries he was averaging like 5 yards on rushes or something close to that.  

I think if the Lions were smart they would use him as the starting back and then let Leshoure get short yardage and goal line carries, areas where he did very well in.

[StuPitt]

Detroiter here.  Why does this guy have a trend this far ahead of next season?  Leshoure is the better back and you'll see it next year.  Look for Detroit to replace Bell with a guy like Reggie Bush or Bradshaw.  This guy aint the future folks.

[rraayy3]

Bush would make a lot of sense in this offense.

Bradshaw, not so much.

Edited by rraayy3, 12 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[cbe_88]

Bush would be interesting, basically a Jahvid Best replacement. I just can't ever get on board with Bush tho, he's got blow-up potential but it seems he can fall off the stat sheets any given week. Leshoure and Bush are extremely different backs, you could do worse for an RB corps for sure. Leshoure short-yardage goal line bruiser and Bush with the receptions and 10 or so carries sprinkled in for the Sproles role. Not bad for Det, not that attractive for fantasy owners, however.

[DocJ]

Barring a major addition to the backfield he will be very relevant.
5.0 ypc, 52 receptions and 900 yards from scrimmage in 2012. All he would have to do is earn another 40-50 carries and a couple more tds and he's an every week 1ppr starter.

[Ribobizert]

Given that neither Bell or Leshoure is a lock to be the starting RB for detroit, there are quite a few interesting RB hitting FA in a few weeks, and RBs are going so late in the NFL draft these days, it's a bit premature to analyze how the backfield will play out.   But i guess the point of this is fun debates on Bell/Leshoure's value assuming they don't add another RB, so here goes:

Bell is a very good 3rd down back (hands, speed, elusiveness), even if Mikel was a good blocker I doubt he will be Shwartz's choice on passing downs.  If the plan is to use him a la reggie bush in his saints days, bell could see his role expand greatly, giving him really good ppr fantasy value.  Bell is not an every down back, heck these days no one not named AP is an every down back, his body doesn't appear to be built for conventional between the tackles running.  So bells touches will always be limited, even is he was "the man" in detroit.

Mikel is the bruiser and will be the goalline/short yardage back, but he doesn't have much wiggle.  He will never be a big threat to put up large yardage totals and given Bells existence isn't going to get many receptions and will give up some carries to him.  Mikel's fantasy value is tied to his TD output, so he's going to contribute 12 pts or 5 pts to your fantasy team on a weekly basis.

Mikel and Joique are the epitome of the classic thunder & lightning combo, both will be used in detroit's system.  Barring injury I don't see either getting enough touches to warrant an automatic start, especially with how pass happy detroit is.  Given the explosiveness of the Lions offense both are really tempting but are most likely going to disappoint if you use them at anything other than your flex spot/3rd RB.   Fans always love the HR hitter/highlight back and most teams can't help but let fans influence their decisions on whom to play.  If I had to pick which one I'd rather have on my team, I'd go with Bell as he has the most upside and will go later in drafts as casual owners will just assume Mikel is the starting RB & a lot of owners don't even know he is (in leagues i play in with friends, most owners were like "Joique bell, who the f@ck is he, have you lost you mind" despite my past success in those leagues when i picked him up midseason as a stash player).

[Ribobizert]

cbe_88, on 12 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Bush would be interesting, basically a Jahvid Best replacement. I just can't ever get on board with Bush tho, he's got blow-up potential but it seems he can fall off the stat sheets any given week.

I couldn't agree with you more with that assessment on bush as I owned him in several leagues and he was uber inconsistent and a constant headache when setting line ups.  What's really crazy though is that in Yahoo non ppr scoring, Bush was the 14th best RB this season, warranting solid RB2 classification.  Whats has fantasy football come to? I long for the days of yesteryear when there were 15-20 feature RBs, but hey that's where this league is heading, TDs and yardage spread out over a wide array of players.  Its turning fantasy football success into a measurement of who's best at starting the flavor of the week off their roster, rather than just having a solid team of studs & sleepers.

[pikerbkb]

GottaGetTheWin, on 12 February 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'm not NFL scout but from what I saw on TV Bell just looked like the better back.  He was more elusive, had better lateral movement and burst, and was overall a harder player to bring down than LeShoure.  Bell would run into the line and somehow find some space and then burst through it.  I'm not saying he's the biggest, fastest, or most elusive guy on the field but at the end of the day its the results that count.  I don't remember season average but I do remember that near the end of the season when he was getting more consistent carries he was averaging like 5 yards on rushes or something close to that.  

I think if the Lions were smart they would use him as the starting back and then let Leshoure get short yardage and goal line carries, areas where he did very well in.

Just went back and looked at a bunch of tape, highlights and otherwise. Bell is not more explosive really and they are actually very similar RBs in size and athletic ability. It actually looks like Leshoure has better lateral agility than Bell. Bell's "explosive" long runs are in long down and distance, out of the shotgun formation and usually draw plays up the middle against defenses that are in soft zone schemes. Nothing special there. Just running the play where it is designed to go and running to daylight. Leshoure rarely got the ball in that type of situation. His carries were usually out of the I-formation, single back with no lead blocker. Anyway, neither back is ever going to be a special back or game changer like AP or someone like that. I don't see Bell getting more carries/touches this season. The opposite will probably be true. I also agree with everyone else that the Lions are going to add a smaller speed back, a game-breaker type. Bush would probably be great if they could get him cheap. Surprisingly, this years draft is DEEP with finesse RBs and it would probably make more sense financially for the Lions to pick up an Ellington, Zac Stacy, or Ray Graham in the later rounds. Regardless, it is shaping up to be a committee with Leshoure getting the bulk of carries again and a speed/finesse back getting 8-12 carries. K. Smith not coming back obviously. I think Bell is going to come off the bench for about 5 carries and a couple of targets in the passing game, just my take.

Edited by pikerbkb, 13 February 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[rraayy3]

joique bell: 134 touches, 899 yards, 5.0 yards per carry, long of 67 yards
mikel leshoure: 249 touches, 846 yards, 3.7 yards per carry, long of 16 yards

cherry pick those however you want.

[GottaGetTheWin]

After reading some of the responses in this thread I'm convinced that not only is Jim Schwartz part of the Rotoworld forums but he has multiple screen names.

[pikerbkb]

rraayy3, on 13 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

joique bell: 134 touches, 899 yards, 5.0 yards per carry, long of 67 yards
mikel leshoure: 249 touches, 846 yards, 3.7 yards per carry, long of 16 yards

cherry pick those however you want.

Ray, respect you and all, but in the words of Tracy Morgan "Look at the game tape!" because you are not. Anyone can copy and paste stats. Go to NFL.com and just look at all of Bells' long runs. Every run is out of the shotgun in 3+ wideout sets. You look at the holes that Bell has to run through and it looks like the Red Sea parting. It's almost comical. If you look at Bell's runs out of the single back I (and there aren't many) his numbers are similar to worse than Leshoure's. And the touches and yardage you are showing me there for Bell are about 50/50 runs and receptions, so not sure what your point is there. Leshoure would have similar numbers if he was used the same way but he was saving his energy for more important things like, oh I don't know....scoring TDs?

Edited by pikerbkb, 13 February 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[pikerbkb]

GottaGetTheWin, on 13 February 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

After reading some of the responses in this thread I'm convinced that not only is Jim Schwartz part of the Rotoworld forums but he has multiple screen names.

Hey, it's the offseason. Desperate for topics!

[pikerbkb]

Also, to be clear, I like Bell as a player, I am just looking at who the Lions are invested in (Leshoure), the fact that the Lions are going to bring in a finesse back and that their offense is pass-heavy so there are only so many carries to go around. So assuming Leshoure stays healthy, gets more comfortable on the field in different game situations Bell role will not expand. Great handcuff, but otherwise not much potential.

Edited by pikerbkb, 13 February 2013 - 03:02 PM.