62 replies to this topic

[inspiron22]

Thabo has been pretty steady with the occasional outburst (poor man's Kawhi?)

EDIT: Starting a new thread; please offer reasoning for your tout and refrain from requesting Roster Advice...Thanks!

[SenatorSpaceman]

inspiron22, on 11 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Thabo has been pretty steady with the occasional outburst

He holds some value in deeper formats but his outburst last night can probably be directly linked to Martin's absence.

[memorex]

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick

Nets announce PG Deron Williams will miss next 2 games because of "synovitis (inflammation of ankle joint linings) in both ankles."


CJ Watson will probably have some value.

[BareaFan]

My league is from the 11th to the 24th and I'm pretty sure it's by default settings.

[SenatorSpaceman]

BareaFan, on 11 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

My league is from the 11th to the 24th and I'm pretty sure it's by default settings.

Yeah, all of my H2H leagues are going til the 24th for this matchup.

[SenatorSpaceman]

It looks like Tyshawn Taylor will actually be the primary beneficiary of any more missed games by Deron WIlliams. He's got significantly more minutes than Watson tonight. I don't see him being worth an add, though, unless you're in the deepest of leagues.

[monkeysennin]

Matt Barnes must have been dropped in a lot of leagues. The Clippers are the only team with 3 games this week, I'm planning to scoop him up by dropping Beasley (1 game). With CP3 back and Butler out, he can hopefully put up similar numbers to what he was doing doing around December.

[BareaFan]

Yeah, the Clip's roster is a good place to find some good pick ups if you're in a short week.

[SenatorSpaceman]

Like I mentioned last week, it might be a good time to consider a speculative add of Enes Kanter. He has been putting up impressive numbers given the minutes he's been playing and he could end up as a primary beneficiary of a potential Utah trade.

This guy becomes a must-own if he's getting 20+ minutes every game. Think Drummond without the FT woes.

With the All-Star break upon us, there aren't many NBA game days remaining until next Thusday's deadline so you won't have to wait long before you'll be able to see what happens (or doesn't happen) to his value. Otherwise, wait for a trade to happen and try to beat the rush to the wire.

[VeganZombies]

No chance Enes Kanter is Drummond without FT woes. That's absurd. Drummond without FT woes is a 2nd 3rd rounder. (Asumming Drummond while getting 20+ minutes)

Edited by VeganZombies, 12 February 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Timmah!]

SenatorSpaceman, on 11 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

BareaFan, on 11 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

My league is from the 11th to the 24th and I'm pretty sure it's by default settings.

Yeah, all of my H2H leagues are going til the 24th for this matchup.

Unfortunately, in Yahoo land it's the usual seven-day week.

We'll leave this up for the duration and I'll adjust the title accordingly.

[SenatorSpaceman]

VeganZombies, on 12 February 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

No chance Enes Kanter is Drummond without FT woes. That's absurd. Drummond without FT woes is a 2nd 3rd rounder. (Asumming Drummond while getting 20+ minutes)

Huh?

In December and January, Drummond played 22.1 MPG and put up 8.3 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.9 BPG with a 61 FG%.

Is that solid production? Yes, of course it is. Is it 2nd round value? Not unless there are about 30 teams in your league.

It's not absurd, as you imply, to expect that Kanter can match those numbers in comparable minutes. He's become one of my League Pass darlings this year and believe me, the kid can score, rebound, and block shots effectively. His FG% may not eclipse 60%, but it's pretty damn close (he's currently at 55% for the season and 59% in the last month).

Here's what he has done in the last 30 days, in only 12.7 MPG:

6.8 PPG
3.8 RPG
0.7 BPG
59% FG
86% FT

He'll still be playing versus reserves if a Utah trade goes down so these numbers likely would extrapolate accordingly in a 20+ MPG role. I don't know about you, but that type of production would be welcome on my team.

Would you be able to elaborate at all on why you don't feel like Kanter would be capable of posting those numbers if given the minutes? Were you just mistaken about what kind of numbers Drummond had been putting up?

[VeganZombies]

http://i.imgur.com/gmKmwB2.png

What are you talking about? That is totally 2nd round value in a 12 team league if you remove is ft%

Kanter doesn't block enough shots, steal the ball enough and turns the ball over too much to be considered a Drummond with decent ft shooting.

You're talking about a player that was top 40 at one point with a super anemic ft shooting

That said if a trade goes down he's going to be the first person I grab, but not because I expect 2nd round value like you're saying.

Edited by VeganZombies, 13 February 2013 - 03:25 AM.

[darkyume]

VeganZombies, on 13 February 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/gmKmwB2.png

What are you talking about? That is totally 2nd round value in a 12 team league if you remove is ft%

Kanter doesn't block enough shots, steal the ball enough and turns the ball over too much to be considered a Drummond with decent ft shooting.

You're talking about a player that was top 40 at one point with a super anemic ft shooting

That said if a trade goes down he's going to be the first person I grab, but not because I expect 2nd round value like you're saying.

Vegan, this is a waiver wire tout thread, and I don't think we need to get into an excruciating debate about value.  Bottom line, Kanter will see his minutes rise and has a good chance of becoming must-own.  While Drummond w/o FT% is not a perfect comparison (given the difference in stl/blk/TO), it's really not a terrible one either, and I can't really think of anyone else that profiles more similarly.

I noticed that in every thread, the first thing you do is dive into the rankings...  but most people aren't necessarily wired that way.  As indicated by Senator's response, I don't think he was trying to imply Kanter = Drummond w/o FT% = 2nd round value.

On a last note, I like Kanter as well, and I just picked him up in my 14 team league - and no, I don't expect him to return 2nd round value.

Edited by darkyume, 13 February 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[bdams19]

Regardless, I added Kantar after dropping Bogut and Jonas V at extremely inopportune times.  Fool me twice..... you're not gonna fool me again.

[SenatorSpaceman]

VeganZombies, on 13 February 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/gmKmwB2.png

What are you talking about? That is totally 2nd round value in a 12 team league if you remove is ft%

Kanter doesn't block enough shots, steal the ball enough and turns the ball over too much to be considered a Drummond with decent ft shooting.

You're talking about a player that was top 40 at one point with a super anemic ft shooting

That said if a trade goes down he's going to be the first person I grab, but not because I expect 2nd round value like you're saying.

Vegan, you've proven to really be obsessed with these charts and rankings. Do you watch games frequently, too? That BBM data rarely tells close to the entire story and it's dangerous to be so reliant upon it.

Not sure where to start but I definitely never said that Kanter was a second round value. You're the one who keeps bringing up this second round nonsense.

My original point was that Kanter (post potential-trade) will be a huge, young beast who is helpful in almost all of the areas where Drummond is helpful (not so much in steals, I agree), while playing about 20+ MPG.

I feel like Kanter could even score more than Drummond and the rebounding and FG% numbers would likely be similar. Also, you're wrong about Kanter not blocking enough shots. This is how I know that you have never really seen him play. He's a very skilled shot-blocker and if given a role similar to Drummond's, he'll be at least in the neighborhood of 1.5 BPG.

Again, drop the charts and watch a game once in a while. Watching Kanter, I see a lot of Drummond's game and that means more to me than your precious BBM data.

He'll shoot exponentially better than Drummond at the line (like maybe up to 50% better) so I categorized Kanter with minutes as "Drummond w/o the FT woes" and I stand by that. If you need to dissect that statement and pick and choose why they aren't identical, feel free, but obviously your just trolling me because I disagreed with you in another thread.

As far as Drummond being "top 40 at one point", I mean c'mon. How many players have been "top 40 at one point" this season? Anyone can pick and choose the sample that behooves the point they're trying to make.

Ultimately, like I said, I stand by the comparison. These guys are both young with similar bodies and skill sets and, given comparable minutes, would post very similar numbers. Are they carbon copies of each other? No, of course not. I was just trying to give forum users an understanding of why a week long Kanter stash may not be a terrible choice in deep formats.

[SenatorSpaceman]

bdams19, on 13 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Regardless, I added Kantar after dropping Bogut and Jonas V at extremely inopportune times.  Fool me twice..... you're not gonna fool me again.

Haha. Love the Dubya reference.

[VeganZombies]

SenatorSpaceman, on 13 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Vegan, you've proven to really be obsessed with these charts and rankings. Do you watch games frequently, too? That BBM data rarely tells close to the entire story and it's dangerous to be so reliant upon it.

All I know is that the game and eyes deceive. For example... if Enes Kanter profiles like Drummond with similar minutes shouldn't he have the same per 36 mins? They don't. Not even close.

http://www.basketbal...er_minute::none
http://www.basketbal...er_minute::none

I suppose I shouldn't use stats since obviously if Kanter averages 20 minutes his blocks will disportionately increase to 2 a game right when he's been averaging 1.1 his whole career per 36 minutes. They don't even profile similarly anymore than any 2 centers profile similarly. Drummond is by far the better blocker/thief and has a way less TO rate than Enes, or do you think stats don't count and watching the game matters more?

Drummond is a guy who comes in to a game and blocks shots and steals balls like crazy. Kanter doesn't do that. DO you watch the games? Drummond pads stat sheets. He gets legit blocks and steals. Kanter doesn't do that. Not even close.

I'm not saying that Kanter isn't worth owning. He is, but comparing him to Drummond with better FT shooting is like comparing Alonzo Glee to Kawhi Leonard but with more assists.

Edited by VeganZombies, 13 February 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[BareaFan]

VeganZombies, on 13 February 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

SenatorSpaceman, on 13 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Vegan, you've proven to really be obsessed with these charts and rankings. Do you watch games frequently, too? That BBM data rarely tells close to the entire story and it's dangerous to be so reliant upon it.

All I know is that the game and eyes deceive. For example... if Enes Kanter profiles like Drummond with similar minutes shouldn't he have the same per 36 mins? They don't. Not even close.

http://www.basketbal...er_minute::none
http://www.basketbal...er_minute::none

You're not going to find a lot of players that give the same type of stats across the entire board in the same amount of minutes.

A comparison between Kanter and Drummond is definitely fair. Of course Drummond will have a slight edge in most of the stats, except for FT% if comparing at the same amount of minutes, but, in the case of Kanter playing more minutes, Kanter's stats will look pretty similar to Drummond.

[VeganZombies]

Sure, but if they differ by everything except points rebounds and fg% they're not similar.