59 replies to this topic

[KingBax]

What are your thoughts on this young flamethrowers 2013 season?

[baltimore_boy]

Bad control issues. He'll have the role to start the year, but there is no guarentee and I'd say a small shot he keeps it all year with guys like Alburquerque, Coke, and Benoit also in that pen. Worthy of a late round pick,  but not worth reaching for.

[d_wag]

baltimore_boy, on 25 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Bad control issues. He'll have the role to start the year, but there is no guarentee and I'd say a small shot he keeps it all year with guys like Alburquerque, Coke, and Benoit also in that pen. Worthy of a late round pick,  but not worth reaching for.

perhaps it's only semantics, but i wouldn't say he has "bad control issues". that is obviously the biggest aspect of his game he needs to develop, but his control is certainly adequate at the moment and is likely to only get better given normal development with a major league coaching staff.

minor league BB/9 of 5.1, with a 4.4 last year...........to put that in perspective, kimbrel mark in the minor leagues was 5.7, and he started his minor league career at 20 vs. rondon at 17

so far so good with rondon in camp. he's got a lot of pressure on him and looked the part in his first appearence. he's going to have his ups and downs certainly, as any young closer will, but everything i'm reading is he has the attitude for the job. fastball is certainly a plus plus pitch at this point, changeup and slider are also very good pitches for a reliever and he will need to use these more at the MLB level. tigers didn't chase closers for a reason, they like rondon a ton, and i can see why.

Edited by d_wag, 25 February 2013 - 06:02 PM.

[96mnc]

I got to watch every pitch of Rondon's outing against the Jays this weekend.

There was no gun on but hitters reacted to his fastball like it was 97 or so.  With one out he walked Lawrie on a 3-2 high fastball and then gave up a monster 2b to Adam Lind on a 3-2 fastball.  He then came back and struck out JP Arencebia on three straight fastballs and the next hitter as well (can't remember who it was).

He only threw one breaking ball, a show me slider without a lot of tilt.  His fastball control was decent and his command was slightly below average (but with a 97+ FB it doesn't have to be great).  The key is going to be the breaking ball and whether it can keep lefties honest.

He showed real poise in this outing by coming back to get out of the inning without allowing runs after have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out.

[PepperPot]

KingBax, on 25 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on this young flamethrowers 2013 season?

I have my eye on him as a potential cheap closer in my AL-Only league, but I don't know how much of a discount he will really be with some of my league mates.  His control problems worry me, but he wouldn't be the first reliever to be successful with a bad walk rate.  I would say the odds are against him making it through the whole season with the job.  But Benoit can't pitch on back to back days according to Leyland, Alburquerque has a decent injury history in regards to his elbow and Coke will only get save chances against lefties.  

So even if for some reason, he loses the job...as long as he stays in the majors, there will be a shot he gets it back.  Like I said the odds are against him, but none of their current alternatives are locks.  

For what it is worth, I like Al Alburquerque the most out of the arms in the pen.  But I have never seen Rondon pitch.

[96mnc]

d_wag, on 25 February 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

baltimore_boy, on 25 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Bad control issues. He'll have the role to start the year, but there is no guarentee and I'd say a small shot he keeps it all year with guys like Alburquerque, Coke, and Benoit also in that pen. Worthy of a late round pick,  but not worth reaching for.

perhaps it's only semantics, but i wouldn't say he has "bad control issues". that is obviously the biggest aspect of his game he needs to develop, but his control is certainly adequate at the moment and is likely to only get better given normal development with a major league coaching staff.

minor league BB/9 of 5.1, with a 4.4 last year...........to put that in perspective, kimbrel mark in the minor leagues was 5.7, and he started his minor league career at 20 vs. rondon at 17

so far so good with rondon in camp. he's got a lot of pressure on him and looked the part in his first appearence. he's going to have his ups and downs certainly, as any young closer will, but everything i'm reading is he has the attitude for the job. fastball is certainly a plus plus pitch at this point, changeup and slider are also very good pitches for a reliever and he will need to use these more at the MLB level. tigers didn't chase closers for a reason, they like rondon a ton, and i can see why.

I agree with most of this but didn't see much of a slider when I watched him this weekend.  It was only his first outing though.

Backing up what you said here, I saw this in the comments section of a BP chat and thought it was noteworthy.  I did see that he was able to quickly regain the strike zone after briefly losing it on Saturday:





As someone that has scouted Rondon extensively, since his arrival in the US, I'm actually not that concerned about his command. With his fastball, and the movement on that fastball, he needs control; an area he has improved dramatically over the last two years. While he still has instances where he loses the strike zone, he has demonstrated the ability to adjust much more quickly and find the zone again. His control is reasonable at this point and I think he has enough of it to be successful.

Really, I understand why the Tigers are seemingly ready to hand him the keys to the 9th inning and let him run. I don't think he's nearly the risk he's being protrayed as right now.

Edited by 96mnc, 25 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[2ndCitySox]

I wonder how long his leash will be since the tigers are in win-now mode.

[sunnyside]

2nd City Sox makes a good point about him having a short leash.

I saw a clip on the MLB channel of Rondon on Saturday (I guess it was); he looked dynamic but it was very much WILD THING.  From what I saw, the guy will definitely have his WILD HAIR days, which will probably cause Leyland to pull him from the closer's gig.  He is probably better suited as a set-up man, someone who can be called on to be an electric force in the 7th or 8th but with a manager on the top step of the dugout ready to get him out of there if it is clear he is taking a walk on the WILD SIDE that day.  So yeah, he might start the year in the closer's role, but unlike someone like Frieri, he does not have great odds to keep it.

Worth a shot in a late-round of an AL-only league, 239 overall would be fine, but as Pepper Pot points out, Bondon ain't coming so cheap.  For example, in the mock here on this forum, he went at 239 in  a mixed league.

[96mnc]

sunnyside, on 26 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

2nd City Sox makes a good point about him having a short leash.

I saw a clip on the MLB channel of Rondon on Saturday (I guess it was); he looked dynamic but it was very much WILD THING.  From what I saw, the guy will definitely have his WILD HAIR days, which will probably cause Leyland to pull him from the closer's gig.  He is probably better suited as a set-up man, someone who can be called on to be an electric force in the 7th or 8th but with a manager on the top step of the dugout ready to get him out of there if it is clear he is taking a walk on the WILD SIDE that day.  So yeah, he might start the year in the closer's role, but unlike someone like Frieri, he does not have great odds to keep it.

Worth a shot in a late-round of an AL-only league, 239 overall would be fine, but as Pepper Pot points out, Bondon ain't coming so cheap.  For example, in the mock here on this forum, he went at 239 in  a mixed league.

I disagree.  I watched every pitch and he was not very much wild thing.  Henry Rodriguez last year was wild thing, Rondon Saturday was not.  He walked Lawrie on a 3-2 high fastball.  The catcher also made him look worse than he was by having issues receiving the ball (Rondon most be getting tons of late life on his FB).

As for how long a leash he'll have, I can't dispute anything 2nd city said.  It could be like Motte a few years ago when he was the closer coming out of spring and two blown opportunities later he was pulled from the job.  But the reality is, with the exception of the top tier established guys if you blown two or three in a row you're losing your job (Javy Guerra last year).  It is clear that the Tigers from Leyland to Dombrowski want Rondon to take the job and run with it though.

[baltimore_boy]

2ndCitySox, on 25 February 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I wonder how long his leash will be since the tigers are in win-now mode.

I can't imagine it will be very long. They have other quality pitchers in that bullpen that they can turn to if Rondon gets off to a bad start.

[ludawg23]

More control issues in today's outing.  Faced 4 batters, walked 2 and fanned the other 2.  Threw a total of 21 pitches, only 8 for strikes before he was pulled.

[96mnc]

ludawg23, on 26 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

More control issues in today's outing.  Faced 4 batters, walked 2 and fanned the other 2.  Threw a total of 21 pitches, only 8 for strikes before he was pulled.

Just saw the following update on Rotoworld:



Bruce Rondon walked two of the four batters he faced before being pulled from Tuesday's appearance against the Astros.
The Tigers decided that 21 pitches -- just eight of which were strikes -- was enough today. Rondon did fan the two batters he didn't walk, so that's something. He's yet to be charged with a run in 1 2/3 innings this spring but his lack of control makes him a risky fantasy pick.

[JFS171]

Is there a clear handcuff though?  Would we be looking at Albuquerque?

[uspsjeter2]

JFS171, on 27 February 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Is there a clear handcuff though?  Would we be looking at Albuquerque?

No clear handcuff at all there, for an unusual reason: lots of good options after him. It seems to me that for a team in win now mode, if he falters early Leyland will either do the dreaded "hot Hand" or the despised "closer by committee.". Just a guess, but neither outcome is appealing in saves only leagues.
As to Aluquerque he's certainly as good a speculative pick as any, but Benoit stands out as at least the guy most likely to be next in line, for however long that plays out.

[JFS171]

Good point - Albuquerque, Phil Coke, Villareal -- all solid options if Rondon walks the park.

[WahooManiac]

Big collection of LOOGY n ROOGYs in the D. Personally, I dont see why they dont do the CBC thing, makes the most sense

[myzto]

It may have taken longer than the team anticipated, but Tigers pitcher Bruce Rondon finally flashed the strong potential Friday that made him the leading candidate for the vacant closer position. In his first Grapefruit League outing since last Sunday, Rondon attacked the strike zone with a blistering fastball that reached 100 mph and recorded two strikeouts in a scoreless inning of relief against the Mets. He permitted only two singles -- both weakly struck -- and most importantly, did not walk a batter after issuing five free passes in his first four games this spring. "I was just ready to pitch, just to make sure that the mechanics were what the issue was," Rondon told reporters. "I was ready to play."

[jammer2]

Just saw Rondon's latest outing a half hour ago. The kid looked good, fairly poised. He threw 12 pitches, mostly all strikes...no one reached base. He threw a wicked change up for a strike at 84 MPH, after just delivering a 100 MPH fastball, looked unfair....lol. Not a save situation, the TIgs were up 9-1 against the Mets, faced mostly scrubs, but he looked in control, nice mix of slider, fastball with one change up thrown in for good measure. Overall, hard to get a read on such a short outing, but he looked good, something to build on. Only missed bad on one pitch, and that was a designed brush back pitch judging from the situation and count.

[PepperPot]

jammer2, on 14 March 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Just saw Rondon's latest outing a half hour ago. The kid looked good, fairly poised. He threw 12 pitches, mostly all strikes...no one reached base. He threw a wicked change up for a strike at 84 MPH, after just delivering a 100 MPH fastball, looked unfair....lol. Not a save situation, the TIgs were up 9-1 against the Mets, faced mostly scrubs, but he looked in control, nice mix of slider, fastball with one change up thrown in for good measure. Overall, hard to get a read on such a short outing, but he looked good, something to build on. Only missed bad on one pitch, and that was a designed brush back pitch judging from the situation and count.

According to the game log from MLB.com he threw 5 pitches for strikes and 5 for balls, though it is possible that it is wrong.  But it is encouraging that he worked a clean inning and did not walk any one.

[jammer2]

I honestly only remember 3 balls, one to each batter....but I might be off by one, either way....like you said, a move in the right direction.