122 replies to this topic

[Cmilne23]

Did not see a 2013 thread for the king of anti-clutch Robbie Cano.  Calzonesays posted this is the Teixeira thread thought it brought for interesting debate this is the projected Yankees lineup now that Teixeira may be out for an extended perioid of time with a wrist injury:

Ichiro! (declining)
Derek Jeter (coming off of major ankle surgery)
Robinson Cano (will barely get pitched to)
Kevin Youkilis (before he gets injured, 1B/3B)
Hafner (before he gets injured, DH)
Juan Rivera/Melky Mesa (LF, lol!)
Eduardo Nunez (1B/3B)
Francisco Cervelli (Everyday Catcher!)
Brett Gardner CF



Granderson out 6 weeks, ARod out probably most of the season, Teixeira who knows.  All of sudden this lineup looks like a bottom 10 lineup.  A lot of Cano`s value has derived from the fact that he played in an elite lineup for counting stats, and his ballpark catered to them being an offensive juggernaunt.  Is it an overreaction to drop this guy out of the first round?

Edited by Cmilne23, 06 March 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[Wombat]

Oh how appropriate it is for you to be the one to make the Cano thread this year.  

It's a fair observation.  That lineup looks pretty underwhelming. Dropping him out of the first round is crazy talk though just because Cano is still far and away the best middle infield option in the league.  I don't see much of a drop off in counting stats from last year just because I don't think he hits like .150 with RISP again this year.  As long as he still hits .300 with 28+ homers he should be around 100/100 in runs/rbis give or take a few.  And that is far better then any other MI can give you.

[Cmilne23]

Wombat, on 06 March 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Oh how appropriate it is for you to be the one to make the Cano thread this year.  

It's a fair observation.  That lineup looks pretty underwhelming. Dropping him out of the first round is crazy talk though just because Cano is still far and away the best middle infield option in the league.  I don't see much of a drop off in counting stats from last year just because I don't think he hits like .150 with RISP again this year.  As long as he still hits .300 with 28+ homers he should be around 100/100 in runs/rbis give or take a few.  And that is far better then any other MI can give you.

Valid point with his RISP numbers.  It would be very difficult to repeat that putrid number again.  That figure probably goes up so he shouldnt have much trouble reaching his RBI total of last year.  However, he has little margin for error in returning top value because he gets like 0 SBs.  So if his statistical contributions go down a bit across the board he does not become a great value.  For instance he had 105 runs last year.  What if that drops down to 90.  And what if RBIs drop to 90, and then HRs drop to 30.  So you have a .310 average, 30 HR, 90 RBI, 90 Run, 0 SB guy.  I would rather have Pedoria at that point honestly and take the .300 average, 100 runs, 20 HR, 75-80 RBI, 20 SB production.  The little less HR and RBI is offset by the much greater number of SBs.  Interesting debate for sure.  I think Cano is still a first rounder, but I would be surprised if he gave back top 20 production in terms of where he ranks on player rater, and such fantasy metrics.

Edited by Cmilne23, 06 March 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[Mexi1024]

Cmilne23, on 06 March 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

Wombat, on 06 March 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Oh how appropriate it is for you to be the one to make the Cano thread this year.  

It's a fair observation.  That lineup looks pretty underwhelming. Dropping him out of the first round is crazy talk though just because Cano is still far and away the best middle infield option in the league.  I don't see much of a drop off in counting stats from last year just because I don't think he hits like .150 with RISP again this year.  As long as he still hits .300 with 28+ homers he should be around 100/100 in runs/rbis give or take a few.  And that is far better then any other MI can give you.

Valid point with his RISP numbers.  It would be very difficult to repeat that putrid number again.  That figure probably goes up so he shouldnt have much trouble reaching his RBI total of last year.  However, he has little margin for error in returning top value because he gets like 0 SBs.  So if his statistical contributions go down a bit across the board he does not become a great value.  For instance he had 105 runs last year.  What if that drops down to 90.  And what if RBIs drop to 90, and then HRs drop to 30.  So you have a .310 average, 30 HR, 90 RBI, 90 Run, 0 SB guy.  I would rather have Pedoria at that point honestly and take the .300 average, 100 runs, 20 HR, 75-80 RBI, 20 SB production.  The little less HR and RBI is offset by the much greater number of SBs.  Interesting debate for sure.  I think Cano is still a first rounder, but I would be surprised if he gave back top 20 production in terms of where he ranks on player rater, and such fantasy metrics.

Not to mention you can get Pedroia late in the 2nd round while Cano is going top 10 in almost all drafts. That's a better "value" pick IMO.

[CM52]

Cmilne23, on 06 March 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

Wombat, on 06 March 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Oh how appropriate it is for you to be the one to make the Cano thread this year.  

It's a fair observation.  That lineup looks pretty underwhelming. Dropping him out of the first round is crazy talk though just because Cano is still far and away the best middle infield option in the league.  I don't see much of a drop off in counting stats from last year just because I don't think he hits like .150 with RISP again this year.  As long as he still hits .300 with 28+ homers he should be around 100/100 in runs/rbis give or take a few.  And that is far better then any other MI can give you.

Valid point with his RISP numbers.  It would be very difficult to repeat that putrid number again.  That figure probably goes up so he shouldnt have much trouble reaching his RBI total of last year.  However, he has little margin for error in returning top value because he gets like 0 SBs.  So if his statistical contributions go down a bit across the board he does not become a great value.  For instance he had 105 runs last year.  What if that drops down to 90.  And what if RBIs drop to 90, and then HRs drop to 30.  So you have a .310 average, 30 HR, 90 RBI, 90 Run, 0 SB guy.  I would rather have Pedoria at that point honestly and take the .300 average, 100 runs, 20 HR, 75-80 RBI, 20 SB production.  The little less HR and RBI is offset by the much greater number of SBs.  Interesting debate for sure.  I think Cano is still a first rounder, but I would be surprised if he gave back top 20 production in terms of where he ranks on player rater, and such fantasy metrics.

If he had hit .310/30/90/90 last year, he still would have been the 7th most valuable player in MLB.  Playing at such a shallow position gives him an extremely high floor.

[sasnumberonefan]

Valid points, and for my teams sake I hope he does not regress. This year will be a test if he is as elite as he has shown, or if he is just a product of that lineup/ball park. I think he returns top 10 value.

[cdispoto]

RISP numbers are nearly difficult to predict from year to year. And despite the underwhelming appearance of the Yankee lineup, Cano should still be tremendous at a weak position.

The Fantasy Baseball Forecast projections for Cano:

607 AB / .300 BA / .869 OPS / 93 R / 27 HR / 97 RBI / 5 SB

He's awesome.

[ballfan4141]

he will be good enough this year but numbers will start to not be quite after this season. someone will give him a big 5+ year contract and pay for what he did.

Edited by ballfan4141, 06 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Cmilne23]

cdispoto, on 06 March 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

RISP numbers are nearly difficult to predict from year to year. And despite the underwhelming appearance of the Yankee lineup, Cano should still be tremendous at a weak position.

The Fantasy Baseball Forecast projections for Cano:

607 AB / .300 BA / .869 OPS / 93 R / 27 HR / 97 RBI / 5 SB

He's awesome.

Those numbers were given when Granderson was healthy, and Teixeira was healthy.  The Yankees lost A-Rod already and replaced him with an old, worn down, Kevin Youkilis.  They lost Russell Martin and replaced him with probably the worst catcher duo in MLB.  The lineup took some serious downgrades in the offseason, now there core of guys that were capable of producing are hurt, and they are left with Cano and a bunch of crusty old men.  I like Cano, but I think people may be severely underestimating the impact of a poor supporting cast.

[ballfan4141]

Cmilne23, on 06 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

cdispoto, on 06 March 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

RISP numbers are nearly difficult to predict from year to year. And despite the underwhelming appearance of the Yankee lineup, Cano should still be tremendous at a weak position.

The Fantasy Baseball Forecast projections for Cano:

607 AB / .300 BA / .869 OPS / 93 R / 27 HR / 97 RBI / 5 SB

He's awesome.

Those numbers were given when Granderson was healthy, and Teixeira was healthy.  The Yankees lost A-Rod already and replaced him with an old, worn down, Kevin Youkilis.  They lost Russell Martin and replaced him with probably the worst catcher duo in MLB.  The lineup took some serious downgrades in the offseason, now there core of guys that were capable of producing are hurt, and they are left with Cano and a bunch of crusty old men.  I like Cano, but I think people may be severely underestimating the impact of a poor supporting cast.

yes I was saying that I think last season was canos last 300-30-100-100 season.

[myzto]

http://www.sportsgri...ns-this-season/


50 game suspension on the way?

Edited by myzto, 07 March 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Neymar]

The last tweet on that page pretty much sums this "report" up for me:


Joe Bisceglie @joebisceglie

We were as shocked as you guys are by it. All we ask is that you remember where you heard it first when ESPN "breaks this" in 4 weeks.



In other words....WE WANT ATTENTION!

[myzto]

Yeah... he predicted Melky right.  And as far as I can tell this is unrelated to the fake Ken Rosenhahl story:
http://www.justinjab...y-good-sources/



Same message but  different in source, since the guy was right on Melky C.

[KempireStateOfMine]

Cmilne23, on 06 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

cdispoto, on 06 March 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

RISP numbers are nearly difficult to predict from year to year. And despite the underwhelming appearance of the Yankee lineup, Cano should still be tremendous at a weak position.

The Fantasy Baseball Forecast projections for Cano:

607 AB / .300 BA / .869 OPS / 93 R / 27 HR / 97 RBI / 5 SB

He's awesome.

Those numbers were given when Granderson was healthy, and Teixeira was healthy.  The Yankees lost A-Rod already and replaced him with an old, worn down, Kevin Youkilis.  They lost Russell Martin and replaced him with probably the worst catcher duo in MLB.  The lineup took some serious downgrades in the offseason, now there core of guys that were capable of producing are hurt, and they are left with Cano and a bunch of crusty old men.  I like Cano, but I think people may be severely underestimating the impact of a poor supporting cast.

Honestly I think people severely overestimate them. People were saying the same thing about Ryan Braun when Fielder left, and look at the season he had. What about Matt Kemp's 2011? Good hitters will be good hitters despite who they have hitting around them.

[Sine_cera]

I'm not overly worried about Cano. Good hitters will hit. Adrian Gonzalez was surrounded by garbage in San Diego and still went off for 30-100. Heck, Kyle Seager drove in 86 runs for Seattle in that horendous lineup.

[Jay85]

WOW - Cano Fired Boras, Did he just shoot himself in his own leg with an opp to get $200/10Yrs contract from Yankees or any team, if yankees decided to lower the salary for the Luxury tax purpose.

http://espn.go.com/n...t-boras-sources

[Orion Braun]

Jay85, on 02 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

WOW - Cano Fired Boras, Did he just shoot himself in his own leg with an opp to get $200/10Yrs contract from Yankees or any team, if yankees decided to lower the salary for the Luxury tax purpose.

http://espn.go.com/n...t-boras-sources

And he hired Jay-Z! How awesome is that.

http://espn.go.com/n...ott-boras-jay-z

[Cmilne23]

I'm expecting a really horrid and boring April from Cano.  Then in May the Yanks should get Jeter, Granderson, and Teixeira all back at some point which should help upkick his statistics.

[sasnumberonefan]

Had an RBI double taken away yesterday.

[klove42]

sasnumberonefan, on 02 April 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Had an RBI double taken away yesterday.

This. If Gomes was in left that would have been an RBI.