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Observations from Tout Wars (NL-only)


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#1 Ben Edelman

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:32 PM

Some interesting views -- Tout was conducted this weekend, so recent injuries like Motte and Eaton are already known. Some comparisons:

Matt Holliday and Ryan Zimmerman for $27 each. I know position scarcity, but Holliday is much more consistent and injury-resistant.

Brian McCann for $11 and Wilson Ramos for $10. They'll probably get a similar number of AB this year.

Rizzo for $22, Belt for $21, and Craig for $25. I'll take the guy who is already a star for a few extra bucks.

Hanley Ramirez and Pedro Alvarez for $17 each. Is 2/3 of a season of Hanley worth that little?

Andrelton for $15 and Everth Cabrera for $17.

Gallardo and Medlen for $17 each. Are those Medlen disbelievers, or did he really go cheap?

Niese for $14 and Harvey for $12. I'll take the upside every time.

Haren at $13 vs. Beckett at $14. Interesting upside on both. Which would you choose?

Fujikawa and Marmol for $8 each.

Since 1995: 12-team 4x4 Roto auction keeper, NL-only. Likely keepers:
C: Mesoraco, xx
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2/S: Tulo, Alcantara, Segura
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SP: Hahn, Morton, xx, xx, xx
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#2 Code of Hammurabi

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

I listed to a lot of the action on XM this weekend. My thoughts on each below

Some interesting views -- Tout was conducted this weekend, so recent injuries like Motte and Eaton are already known. Some comparisons:

Matt Holliday and Ryan Zimmerman for $27 each. I know position scarcity, but Holliday is much more consistent and injury-resistant. Close call imo, but i'd value Zimmerman slightly higher due to 3b eligibility and volume of OF depth generally.

Brian McCann for $11 and Wilson Ramos for $10. They'll probably get a similar number of AB this year. I like Ramos a lot this year. Good value

Rizzo for $22, Belt for $21, and Craig for $25. I'll take the guy who is already a star for a few extra bucks. Strange that Belt commanded that type of premium regardless of where were at that point in the draft on money. I'll tale Craig at 25 all day long. I could see Craig being right there with AP and Fielder as far as 1b production.

Hanley Ramirez and Pedro Alvarez for $17 each. Is 2/3 of a season of Hanley worth that little? Another one i couldnt get. Love Hanley at 17 bucks for 125 games.

Andrelton for $15 and Everth Cabrera for $17. Not crazy about both at that price

Gallardo and Medlen for $17 each. Are those Medlen disbelievers, or did he really go cheap? good value for both

Niese for $14 and Harvey for $12. I'll take the upside every time. see above

Haren at $13 vs. Beckett at $14. Interesting upside on both. Which would you choose? id pass on both at that valuaton

Fujikawa and Marmol for $8 each. see above


Edited by Code of Hammurabi, 24 March 2013 - 06:02 PM.

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#3 Bodhizefa

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

I listed to a lot of the action on XM this weekend. My thoughts on each below

Matt Holliday and Ryan Zimmerman for $27 each. I know position scarcity, but Holliday is much more consistent and injury-resistant. Close call imo, but i'd value Zimmerman slightly higher due to 3b eligibility and volume of OF depth generally.


Third base eligibility doesn't matter much if the guy can't stay on the field. I'm with the original poster -- give me Holliday easily over Zimmerman given the inherent health risks of the Nats' third baseman.
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#4 battle2heaven

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....

12 Team .5 PPR

QB Andrew Luck
WR AJ Green
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RB Ahmad Bradshaw
TE Travis Kelce
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Justin Hunter/Allen Robinson
Bernard Pierce/Branden Bolden/Roy Helu/Benny Cunningham
Tim Wright


#5 Code of Hammurabi

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

I'll take Zimmerman. I dont get the comments about Zimmerman durability generally. Zimmerman games played last 4years..157, 142, 101, 145. Thats pretty durable to me.

In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....


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#6 Bodhizefa

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:28 PM

In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....


I'm pretty sure 2006, 2007, and 2008 are irrelevant as to his ability to stay on the field. Ken Griffey Jr. stayed on the field more when he was younger, too, but that didn't help him as he aged and his body broke down on him. Couple that with the fact that Zimmerman has passed 100 RBI or 100 Runs only once in the last 6 years and this is an easy choice.
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#7 Code of Hammurabi

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

i hear you, but pos elig is key for me. I can get 75% comprable talents a dude like hunter pence, beltran, swisher for much much cheaper in the later rounds. Not sure I can say the 3b options.


In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....


I'm pretty sure 2006, 2007, and 2008 are irrelevant as to his ability to stay on the field. Ken Griffey Jr. stayed on the field more when he was younger, too, but that didn't help him as he aged and his body broke down on him. Couple that with the fact that Zimmerman has passed 100 RBI or 100 Runs only once in the last 6 years and this is an easy choice.


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#8 Bodhizefa

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

I'll take Zimmerman. I dont get the comments about Zimmerman durability generally. Zimmerman games played last 4years..157, 142, 101, 145. Thats pretty durable to me.


In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....


I'll take Zimmerman. I dont get the comments about Zimmerman durability generally. Zimmerman games played last 4years..157, 142, 101, 145. Thats pretty durable to me.


In 7 seasons since 2006, zimmermans averaged 606 PAs.

Just saying....


It's not just the durability. He's nowhere near as good a hitter as Holliday, too. Holliday, by the way, has averaged nearly 70 more plate appearances per year than Zimmerman in the last five years. You can say Zimmerman is durable all you want, but he's just nowhere near the player that Holliday consistently is.
"We used to roast Stay Puft marshmallows by the fire at Camp Wocanda."

#9 wildo7

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:39 PM

yeah PAs and Gs are lousy measures when the guy has proven he'll play when borderline ineffective due to injury. Couple that with the fact that his shoulder problem seems like something that is chronic and difficult to manage and I understand why health is a big concern. That being said Holliday's upside is limited, he's older and position scarcity does count for something. I don't really see anything strange about pricing them similarly.

#10 Wombat

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:10 PM

Well you also can't just compare prices in a vacuum its all dependent on where they were thrown out in the auction. One guy could go for 27 if he were thrown out at one point in the auction, but had he been thrown out at a different time he could go for 31 or something.

#11 bbythepier

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

I like COH's method, so i'll copycat

Some interesting views -- Tout was conducted this weekend, so recent injuries like Motte and Eaton are already known. Some comparisons:

Matt Holliday and Ryan Zimmerman for $27 each. I know position scarcity, but Holliday is much more consistent and injury-resistant.
Seems fine to me. Zimmerman, while "injury prone" to some, seems healthy. He hurt his shoulder after repeated dives. I would guess diving will be used sparingly in the field. Plus one is in his prime, one probably over his peak.

Brian McCann for $11 and Wilson Ramos for $10. They'll probably get a similar number of AB this year.
To me, you are taking Mccann's best case scenario: http://www.cbssports...seball/21937063

Rizzo for $22, Belt for $21, and Craig for $25. I'll take the guy who is already a star for a few extra bucks.
Agree 1110%

Hanley Ramirez and Pedro Alvarez for $17 each. Is 2/3 of a season of Hanley worth that little?
What HanRam are you gonna get? Just gonna go back to the power SS/3B when he returns? Not in my world.

Andrelton for $15 and Everth Cabrera for $17.
Flip a coin

Gallardo and Medlen for $17 each. Are those Medlen disbelievers, or did he really go cheap?
Medlen had the same half season Dan Hudson did a year or 2 ago. It's eminently unrepeatable. I'll actually take YoGa here.

Niese for $14 and Harvey for $12. I'll take the upside every time.
Agreed

Haren at $13 vs. Beckett at $14. Interesting upside on both. Which would you choose?
Beckett, but like COH, I'm not a fan of either this year.

Fujikawa and Marmol for $8 each.
Fuji and it's not close for me. Uehara and Saito have sold me on the Japanese RPs. However, big however, RPs are so volatile that Marmol can fool the relief gods for a year. He's done it before.



#12 blangtang

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:21 PM

What is a Tout War? sounds like a WoW type thing

#13 kslackey

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:27 PM

What is a Tout War? sounds like a WoW type thing

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+a+tout+war