Jump to content

Visit Rotoworld.comRotoworld Forums  
Rotoworld: MLB | NFL | NBA | NHL | NASCAR | CFB
Sports Talk Blogs: PFT | HBT | PBT | CFT | PHT
  Visit NBCSports.com

- - - - -

Does Everyone Do This?It seems like an epidemic


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#1 My Dinner With Andre

My Dinner With Andre

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:41 AM

It seems like everywhere I look (this board, the "experts", etc.) people tout a guy who as an add has just turned in a really solid stretch of stats (i.e. he's "hot"). However, most of the time the player is added at the tail end of the hot streak; the manager adding the player ends up absorbing the regression to the mean and ends up dropping the player after getting nothing from him (in fact, he ends up hurting the manager).

Am I overthinking things? I'm so scared (well, not really) of picking up a guy and watching him immediately go 4 for his next 42 or get blown up in his first start on my team.

#2 ballfan4141

ballfan4141

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

that's why I am not picking up bj upton today.

#3 FantasyShmantasy

FantasyShmantasy

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,669 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:51 AM

Honestly the touts are generally worthless in my league. The guy is already gone or, as you pointed out, the lion's share of the production from his hot streak has already passed. I touted Ibanez several weeks ago but only after he'd hit like 5HRs in 9 games and then I'm sure he didn't hit any after that. You usually just have to take a gamble on a slumping player and hope it pays off.
12-Team H2H Re-Draft 6x6 (Runs, AVG, HRs, RBIs, BBs, Steals) (Ws, Ls, Ks, ERA, WHIP, Saves)

C Russell Martin ©
1B Adrian Gonzalez (1B) || Adam Dunn (1B, LF) || Mitch Moreland (1B)
2B Howie Kendrick (2B)
3B Nolan Arenado (3B) || Hanley Ramirez (3B, SS) || Will Middlebrooks (3B)
SS Jimmy Rollins (SS)
LF Carlos Gonzalez (LF) || Michael Saunders (LF, CF, RF)
CF Mike Trout (LF, CF) || Dexter Fowler (CF)
RF Jose Bautista (RF) || Daniel Nava (LF, RF)

SP Cole Hamels || Jeff Samardzija || Lance Lynn || Mike Minor || Jeff Locke || Jeremy Hellickson || David Phelps || Bartolo Colon || Kevin Gausman
RP Tom Wilhelmsen || Glen Perkins

My credentials: Data analyst as my day job, have played fantasy baseball for two seasons, first-place in 10-team Roto my first season and first-place in 12-team H2H my second season.

#4 Rabbit Maranville

Rabbit Maranville

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ouagadougou

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

View PostMy Dinner With Andre, on 16 June 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

It seems like everywhere I look (this board, the "experts", etc.) people tout a guy who as an add has just turned in a really solid stretch of stats (i.e. he's "hot"). However, most of the time the player is added at the tail end of the hot streak; the manager adding the player ends up absorbing the regression to the mean and ends up dropping the player after getting nothing from him (in fact, he ends up hurting the manager).

Am I overthinking things? I'm so scared (well, not really) of picking up a guy and watching him immediately go 4 for his next 42 or get blown up in his first start on my team.

I have noticed this many times as well. I think the trick is to really watch as many games as you can -- MLB.TV is the best hundo you will ever spend if you are a baseball fan. That way, you can key in on the aforementioned hot streaks way before the fantasy writers (they're not experts, they're writers) take notice.

Just about every player goes through hot/cold stretches. If you can get on board at the beginning of these, you will crush your competition.

Most of the time, from what I've noticed, a player will first start to see the ball much better i.e. you'll see more line drives, better contact, improved plate discipline, etc. If this guy is streaky, that's when you buy. Many times, a HR binge will be on its way. This is what happened with Mitch Moreland earlier in the season-- he started to look just much better at the plate in late April/ early May, I bought, and he OPS'ed 1.000 for my team until he got hurt.

Not tryna brag, just tryna provide an example. Perhaps we should have a "Who's heating up?" thread to track potential hot streaks.
7-team Dynasty H2H
------------------------------
C-  Ossee Schreckengost
1B- Hee-Seop Choi
2B- Bo Hart  
3B- Doug Strange
SS- Matt Stairs
OF- Quinton McCracken
OF- Nemo Leibold
OF- William Beane
UTIL- Kevin Young
BN- Tony Womack, Abner Dalrymple
SP- Luis Tiant, Dustin Nippert, Rick Ankiel, Charles Radbourn, Bea Arthur, Bob Walk
RP- Mike Fetters, The Hamburglar, Byung-Hyun Kim, Joe Table

DL- Mark Prior

#5 lubs

lubs

    Triple-A

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 95 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:54 AM

It is the common reality of a tout to end up back on the wire. Unless you're lucky, most available players on hot streaks don't turn into players that are serviceable all year. Not knowing how long a streak might last, they may still have some value. I carried Yuniesky Betancourt and David DeJesus through some injuries with no regrets. It's also nice to have a go to guy to drop when a player you perceive as higher value comes along. There are the fortunate times when a guy was worth the add long term. Daniel Nava comes to mind for me this season.

Fantasy, like betting, can be stressful. But it's all a part of the fun. There are no guarantees in either, but being in the right headspace helps. To me that means a bit of stress and pressure, filtering the rights thoughts, and not forcing decisions but acting when prudent.
10 Team Redraft 0.5 PPR Return League
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, Danny Woodhead, Donald Brown, Chris Ivory, Andre Ellington, Jordan Todman
WR: Vincent Jackson, Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, Golden Tate, Michael Floyd
TE: Julius Thomas, Vernon Davis
K: Justin Tucker
DB: Morgan Burnett, Harrison Smith
DL: Robert Quinn, Cameron Wake
LB: Paul Worrilow, Daryl Smith

#6 nickalero99

nickalero99

    Hall of Famer

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,769 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seymour IN

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:56 AM

It is true that guys go on streaks and you don't want to pick someone up because of numbers they have already put up.  That said, how do you know how long a streak is or whether there has been improvement that lead to said streak.  A lot of people rushed to sell Bautista high a few years ago or Trout last year.  They made poor decisions in all likelihood.  I don't get too caught up in whether I am buying at the end of a hot streak or if a hot streak will be immediately followed by a slump.  If it's a guy like Buck who clearly was just on the streak of his life, I just steer clear.

#7 khabibul35

khabibul35

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 211 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:59 AM

That's true most of the time, but not all of the time. Jose Bautista is one very important example from the past and Matt Joyce is a pretty relevant current example. His "hot streak" is now about 40 days long and if you picked him up after 2 weeks when he started getting hyped, you're still enjoying it. And who knows, maybe he's turned the corner and we'll get to enjoy this for the rest of the season, but even if not at least we're getting 3 weeks of solid production.

#8 jsp2014

jsp2014

    Hall of Famer

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,407 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WILD FIRE

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

people vastly overestimate the predictive power of a hot streak. sometimes it is real, but a lot of times it is simple randomness.

if you want to know for sure, run a study. start recording a player's stats for about 2-4 weeks following people proclaiming him to be hot. by the end of the year you can aggregate all the stats relative to those players' full season stat lines.
I will never draft Francisco Liriano ever again.

#9 Sine_cera

Sine_cera

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,659 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

That's why I always keep an eye on Fangraphs to use their stats and keep an eye on players who I consider being "unlucky". Who are underperforming their peripherals. Two players who come to mind are Adam Laroche and Mitch Moreland. Once those players start having several good games in a row I immediately add them. It could just be a small hot streak but it could also be that they're finally performing the way the should.
"There's nothing more interesting than your own rotisserie team and nothing less interesting than someone else's." - Daniel Okrent

"If you challenge the conventional wisdom, you will find ways to do things much better than they are currently done." - Bill James




.

#10 blangtang

blangtang

    Superstar

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,764 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:14 AM

So who are the hot ones to add right now?  that Shafer guy filling in for Braun?

#11 blangtang

blangtang

    Superstar

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,764 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

the only people i see who have been hot the last 2 weeks that might be on the wire in most leagues are:

Tyler Colvin, Adam Lind, Kyle Blanks  edit maybe Sal Perez too

are these the type of players we are talking about or am I missing what you guys are chasing?

Edited by blangtang, 16 June 2013 - 11:19 AM.


#12 hard1

hard1

    Hall of Famer

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,074 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

Poop? I'm pretty sure they have a book that says everyone does it.

#13 glascock9

glascock9

    Superstar

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,920 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

View Postballfan4141, on 16 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

that's why I am not picking up bj upton today.

Unless you're in an extremely shallow league, why the heck wouldn't you add BJ Upton?  You'll never find another player all year on waivers with his potential.
12 team, head to head league
R, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, BB, SB, AVG, SLG / W, L, CG, SV, HLD, ERA, WHIP, QS, K

C - Mesoraco
1B - Hosmer
2B - Murphy
3B - Encarnacion
SS - Desmond
OF - Choo, Heyward, Sizemore
UTIL - Ortiz, LaRoche
Bench - Wong, Morse

SP - Cain, Liriano, Cueto, Ventura, Estrada, Haren
RP - Rosenthal, Perkins, Cishek
NA - K. Morales

DL - Kershaw, Iwakuma, D. Holland

#14 ballfan4141

ballfan4141

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:35 AM

View Postglascock9, on 16 June 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

View Postballfan4141, on 16 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

that's why I am not picking up bj upton today.

Unless you're in an extremely shallow league, why the heck wouldn't you add BJ Upton?  You'll never find another player all year on waivers with his potential.
he did nothing for a week. then gives you a 2 homerun game. now he wont do nothing for a while.

#15 glascock9

glascock9

    Superstar

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,920 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore

Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:42 AM

Actually, he's hitting .250 this month with 4 home runs and 2 steals.  He hit .143 in April and .147 in May.  He's a guy who has a legitimate shot to make a run at 30/30 each year who just happened to get off to a horrendous start.  You don't want to take a chance on him?
12 team, head to head league
R, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, BB, SB, AVG, SLG / W, L, CG, SV, HLD, ERA, WHIP, QS, K

C - Mesoraco
1B - Hosmer
2B - Murphy
3B - Encarnacion
SS - Desmond
OF - Choo, Heyward, Sizemore
UTIL - Ortiz, LaRoche
Bench - Wong, Morse

SP - Cain, Liriano, Cueto, Ventura, Estrada, Haren
RP - Rosenthal, Perkins, Cishek
NA - K. Morales

DL - Kershaw, Iwakuma, D. Holland

#16 doog71

doog71

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

Yes, most "experts" give worthless info that anyone could find for themselves by being observant reading box scores.

That's why I like sites like Fangraphs where they are more PREDICTIVE of a hot streak/regression coming.

For example, during Heyward's really rough stretch useful fantasy writers were pointing out his peripherals and how he was actually headed for a hot streak. Guess what? That's exactly what's happening.
10-team mixed ESPN league

C-Santana
1B-Trumbo
2B-Walker
SS-Tulo
2B/SS-E. Cabrera/Prado
3B-Beltre
1B/3B-Rizzo
OF-Trout
OF-Harper
OF-Bruce
OF-Bautista
OF-Werth
U-Pence
U-Revere

SP-Wacha/Shark/Liriano//Santana/Wood
RP-Soria/Cishek/Broxton/K-Rod

#17 Golden Spikes

Golden Spikes

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 478 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

View Postglascock9, on 16 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Actually, he's hitting .250 this month with 4 home runs and 2 steals.  He hit .143 in April and .147 in May.  He's a guy who has a legitimate shot to make a run at 30/30 each year who just happened to get off to a horrendous start.  You don't want to take a chance on him?

he does?

I dont think hes got even remotely close to 30/30, and for be batting average is the hardest stat to chase/makeup ground in.  I wouldnt ever want BJ on my teams

I guess he did have 28/31 last year, shows how little I like this guy

Rather take Rios, who is a better hitter

Edited by Golden Spikes, 16 June 2013 - 01:07 PM.

5 man keeper 5x5 Roto 10 yrs running 3x Champ

C- Weiters   1B- Goldy (k)
2b- Hill SS- Hanley (k)
3B- Beltre (k)   CI- Encarnacion (k)
MI- Miller, Baez
OF- Cargo (k), Pence, Holliday
OF- Eaton, Soriano, KDavis

SP- Bumgarner, Cole, Wacha, Cashner
SP- Minor (dl), Yordanny, Archer, Ubaldo
RP- Holland, Roberston, Chapman (dl), Balfour
RP- Melancon, C.Martinez, Hoover

#18 ballfan4141

ballfan4141

    On the Ballot

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

upton is still batting only .166

#19 dod959

dod959

    Superstar

  • Established Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,070 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:41 PM

In deep leagues, I usually pick up mediocre players who are hitting below .200 knowing that they should get back to .250/.260 at some point.

I mean, there are only so many players that hit under .200 each year so it's a pretty effective strategy for me because you know those guys will have to hit .300 or so to get back to .250.

#20 djmax101

djmax101

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 445 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

Hot streaks aren't predictive for batters. It's counter-intuitive, because they should be predictive, but the issue has been studied extensively. There are tons of examples that seem to prove the theory, but it really is just random variance. Now, players can change their approach (i.e. Dunn abandoning his retarded aggressiveness earlier this season and deciding to take walks again), but streaks without some sort of fundamental change in approach just don't provide predictive value.

Hot streaks for pitchers do provide some predictive value. It's unclear what the true case of this may be - the theory is that if a pitcher is hot, he is probably healthy, and pitcher health is always a grave concern (indeed, cold streaks are often a red flag for a hidden injury).
10 team H2H Points. The "I waited until round 8 to draft a pitcher" squad.
C: Carlos Santana / 1B: Adrian Gonalez / 2B: Dustin Pedroia / SS: Ian Desmond / 3B: Brett Lawrie / MI: Brad Miller / CI: Jose Abreu /
OF: Mike Trout, Ryan Braun, Mark Trumbo, Melky Cabrera, Michael Morse / Util: Adam LaRoche / Bench/DL: Josh Hamilton, Billy Hamilton /
SP: Jordan Zimmerman, Cole Hamels, Alex Cobb, Andrew Cashner, Danny Salazar, Clay Buchholz, Francisco Liriano, Yordano Ventura, Scott Kazmir / RP: Koji Uehara, Jason Grilli, Tanner Roark

10 team H2H Points. The "my work colleagues don't value walks for some reason" squad
C: Joe Mauer / 1B: Joey Votto / 2B: Martin Prado / SS: Ben Zobrist / 3B: Evan Longoria / MI: Brad Miller / CI: Jose Abreu
OF: Mike Trout, Jose Bautistia, Mark Trumbo, Austin Jackson, Torii Hunter / Util: Nick Swisher, Matt Joyce
SP: Justin Verlander, Matt Cain, Masahiro Tanaka, Alex Cobb, Andrew Cashner, Danny Salazar, Francisco Liriano, Scott Kazmir, Tyler Skaggs /
RP: Trevor Rosenthal, Jason Grilli, David Robertson




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users