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Mark Buehrle 2013 Outlook


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#1 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:08 PM

I didn't see a outlook for him so I made one up.

Nice game so far for Buehrle. He could be a nice replacement for Cobb for the next month.

#2 phizzics

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

I don't know how much I'd trust him for more than one or two favorable starts. He has a very good track record against the Twins, but he's not going to do your ratios any favors if you catch him on the wrong day. He's on a solid offensive team, so he might get you W's, but the rest might not be pretty.

#3 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:38 PM

He's been pretty good lately. Another great game tonight. 7 shutout innings with 6 or 7 strikeouts.

#4 Mithrandir

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:25 PM

Ridiculous. He is a bum and all of a sudden he this good?
C- Ramos
1b - Bautista
2b - Altuve
3b - Miggy
SS - A. Escobar
OF - Trout
OF - Revere
OF - Cespedes
OF - Byrd
Util - Plouffe
Util - d'Arnaud




SP - Kershaw, Bumgarner, Grienke, Zimmerman, Felix, Arrieta, Carrasco
RP - Cishek, Papelbon, Mejia, Nathan,

#5 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:26 PM

Ridiculous. He is a bum and all of a sudden he this good?


He's never been a bum.

Oh my friends, my friends, forgive me

That I live and you are gone.

There's a grief that can't be spoken.

There's a pain goes on and on.


#6 2ndCitySox

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:27 PM

Ridiculous. He is a bum and all of a sudden he this good?


When Buerhle is on, he's a damn fine pitcher.
All-Icon Team:
C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Frank Thomas
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Ozzie Smith
3B- Wade Boggs
CF- Rickey
LF- Kirk Gibson
RF- Chili Davis
DH- Eddie Murray

SP- Nolan Ryan
SP- Orel Herschiser
SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- BlackJack McDowell

RP- Eck

#7 Mithrandir

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:21 PM


Ridiculous. He is a bum and all of a sudden he this good?


He's never been a bum.


Ok bum was too harsh..how about mediocre.

Career era of 3.83 and whip of 1.28 with a little more than a strike out every two innings.. That is mediocre.

Edited by Mithrandir, 30 August 2013 - 10:23 PM.

C- Ramos
1b - Bautista
2b - Altuve
3b - Miggy
SS - A. Escobar
OF - Trout
OF - Revere
OF - Cespedes
OF - Byrd
Util - Plouffe
Util - d'Arnaud




SP - Kershaw, Bumgarner, Grienke, Zimmerman, Felix, Arrieta, Carrasco
RP - Cishek, Papelbon, Mejia, Nathan,

#8 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

I know it sounds far fetched but Buehrle could make The Hall of Fame if he has 3 or 4 more Buehrle type years. He should reach 200 innings this year (179 now) and that will be 13 straight 200 inning seasons in a row for him. He's actually got a nice career war too. 54.9. If he has three more 3.3 war type seasons, he'll be around 65.0 career war which puts him in some pretty elite company. Usually every generation puts around 8 to 12 players in the Hall of Fame and for his current generation I don't see 8 guys who will have better careers. I really think he could end up being a strong candidate.

These are Hall of Famers from each generation. Some overlap a bit but I feel all in right spot.

1880's to 1890's HOF pitchers
Cy Young
Kid Nichols
Tim Keefe
John Clarkson
Amos Rusie
Pud Galvin
Charles Radbourne
Mickey Welch
Clark Griffith

1900's to 1910's HOF pitchers
Walter Johnson
Pete Alexander
Christy Mathewson
Three Finger Brown
Ed Walsh
Rube Waddell
Addie Joss
Rube Marquard
Chief Bender
Eddie Plank
Joe McGinnity

1920's to 1930's HOF pitchers
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
Dazzy Vance
Dizzy Dean
Eppa Rixey
Red Faber
Ted Lyons
Stan Coveleski
Red Ruffing
Waite Hoyt
Jesse Haines
Herb Pennock
Burleigh Grimes
Lefty Gomez

1940's to 1950's HOF pitchers
Warren Spahn
Robin Roberts
Bob Feller
Hal Newhouser
Bob Lemon
Whitey Ford
Early Wynn
Satchel Paige
Billy Pierce....maybe

1960's to 1970's HOF pitchers
Tom Seaver
Steve Carlton
Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Gaylord Perry
Phil Neikro
Bert Blyleven
Ferguson Jenkins
Don Sutten
Jim Palmer
Juan Marichal
Don Drysdale

1980's to 1990's HOF pitchers
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Tom Glavine
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Mike Mussina
Jack Morris....maybe
David Cone...maybe
Kevin Brown....maybe

This generation 2000's to 2010's
Roy Halladay
CC Sabathia
Justin Verlander
Clayton Kershaw
Felix Hernandez
Tim Hudson
Cliff Lee
Roy Oswalt
Chris Carpenter
Matt Cain
Zack Grienke
Bartolo Colon
Jake Peavy
Barry Zito
Adam Waignwright
.............I would say Mark Buehrle has a decent shot for top 8 out of these guys.
-2005 WS Champion
-Perfect game and No-hitter
-4 gold gloves
-4 all-stars
-54.9 war which after tonight's game will put him behind only Roy Halladay for this generation.
-He's closing in on 200 wins, he might be last 200 game winner for quite awhile. He also might end up with more career wins than any of these guys.
-13 staight 200 inning seasons. No pitcher in this generation is even close. assuming he gets 200 this year.
-Has record for consecutive outs.

#9 2ndCitySox

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:52 PM

As much as I love Buerhle, no f'ing way will he be a HOFer
All-Icon Team:
C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Frank Thomas
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Ozzie Smith
3B- Wade Boggs
CF- Rickey
LF- Kirk Gibson
RF- Chili Davis
DH- Eddie Murray

SP- Nolan Ryan
SP- Orel Herschiser
SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- BlackJack McDowell

RP- Eck

#10 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:09 AM

As much as I love Buerhle, no f'ing way will he be a HOFer


Agreed.

Buehrle is the definition of consistency and a workhorse. But he should never sniff Cooperstown.

And he's my favorite pitcher.

Oh my friends, my friends, forgive me

That I live and you are gone.

There's a grief that can't be spoken.

There's a pain goes on and on.


#11 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:10 AM

I'll admit he's a longshot but he's already at 55 career war for his career and there is not one pitcher with 70 plus war who isn't in the Hall of Fame. If he reaches 70 war which is a strong possibility, then why should he be kept out? Saber stats could help him by the time he retires too. Voters are already using saber stats in alot of elections. War is now on Topps baseball cards so it's becoming a stat kids will relate to like how kids in the past related to counting stats.

#12 2ndCitySox

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:20 AM

I'll admit he's a longshot but he's already at 55 career war for his career and there is not one pitcher with 70 plus war who isn't in the Hall of Fame. If he reaches 70 war which is a strong possibility, then why should he be kept out? Saber stats could help him by the time he retires too. Voters are already using saber stats in alot of elections. War is now on Topps baseball cards so it's becoming a stat kids will relate to like how kids in the past related to counting stats.


1) pitcher WAR seems kinda sketchy
2) being both solid and durable has led to that WAR tally. What's his average WAR per season?

I hope he comes back to the Sox.
All-Icon Team:
C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Frank Thomas
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Ozzie Smith
3B- Wade Boggs
CF- Rickey
LF- Kirk Gibson
RF- Chili Davis
DH- Eddie Murray

SP- Nolan Ryan
SP- Orel Herschiser
SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- BlackJack McDowell

RP- Eck

#13 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:33 AM


I'll admit he's a longshot but he's already at 55 career war for his career and there is not one pitcher with 70 plus war who isn't in the Hall of Fame. If he reaches 70 war which is a strong possibility, then why should he be kept out? Saber stats could help him by the time he retires too. Voters are already using saber stats in alot of elections. War is now on Topps baseball cards so it's becoming a stat kids will relate to like how kids in the past related to counting stats.


1) pitcher WAR seems kinda sketchy
2) being both solid and durable has led to that WAR tally. What's his average WAR per season?

I hope he comes back to the Sox.


I don't think I'll ever forgive Kenny Williams for choosing Danks and Floyd over Buehrle. So much for loyalty.

Oh my friends, my friends, forgive me

That I live and you are gone.

There's a grief that can't be spoken.

There's a pain goes on and on.


#14 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:07 AM


I'll admit he's a longshot but he's already at 55 career war for his career and there is not one pitcher with 70 plus war who isn't in the Hall of Fame. If he reaches 70 war which is a strong possibility, then why should he be kept out? Saber stats could help him by the time he retires too. Voters are already using saber stats in alot of elections. War is now on Topps baseball cards so it's becoming a stat kids will relate to like how kids in the past related to counting stats.


1) pitcher WAR seems kinda sketchy
2) being both solid and durable has led to that WAR tally. What's his average WAR per season?

I hope he comes back to the Sox.


I would say he averages around 4.0 war per season so if he can average 3.0 war for 3 or 4 more years it will be hard to ignore him. I never thought of him as a Hall of Famer but I recently looked up his stats and i'm kinda amazed how he compares to other pitchers from his era. I forgot to add Johan Santana to my list of 2000's to 2010's pitchers and i'll admit Santana was the better pitcher but when it's all said and done I think Buehrle will have a better career than him. You gotta remember Buehrle pitched in some pretty tough conditions too. US Cellular Field is a horrible pitchers park, He pitched in the steroid era and against some scary American League lineups. I'll admit he's never been a top 5 pitcher but these top 5 pitchers through the years have all usually fizzled out. Buehrle just keeps going. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up with more career wins than both Roy Halladay and CC Sabathia. If that does happen, I find it hard to believe voters won't take notice.

#15 Cmilne23

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:54 AM

If you asked hall of fame voters what WAR was they would say it involves guns and something most of them did in the midst of there careers at one point or another. Zero hall of fame voters look at WAR. So its really not even valid for discussion. Buehrle is similiar to Jaime Moyer, professional pitcher, workhorse, but not a hall of famer at the end of the day.

Edited by Cmilne23, 31 August 2013 - 01:54 AM.


#16 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

If you asked hall of fame voters what WAR was they would say it involves guns and something most of them did in the midst of there careers at one point or another. Zero hall of fame voters look at WAR. So its really not even valid for discussion. Buehrle is similiar to Jaime Moyer, professional pitcher, workhorse, but not a hall of famer at the end of the day.


I agree, if you asked most Hall of Fame voters now about war, they wouldn't be able to give you a good answer but in 15 years or so, war will be alot more mainstream.

#17 2ndCitySox

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:04 PM

If you asked hall of fame voters what WAR was they would say it involves guns and something most of them did in the midst of there careers at one point or another. Zero hall of fame voters look at WAR. So its really not even valid for discussion. Buehrle is similiar to Jaime Moyer, professional pitcher, workhorse, but not a hall of famer at the end of the day.


Buerhle is a bit better than Moyer, but I understand your point
All-Icon Team:
C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Frank Thomas
2B- Ryne Sandberg
SS- Ozzie Smith
3B- Wade Boggs
CF- Rickey
LF- Kirk Gibson
RF- Chili Davis
DH- Eddie Murray

SP- Nolan Ryan
SP- Orel Herschiser
SP- Greg Maddux
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- BlackJack McDowell

RP- Eck

#18 chicagowhitesox1173

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:00 PM

I see his point too but Buehrle has been ALOT better than Moyer.

Mark Buehrle's first 14 seasons..55.2 war
Jaime Moyer's first 14 seasons 27.9 war, Moyer ended up with 50.2 war in 25 seasons. This is a huge difference.

Buehrles career era plus is 118
Moyers caeer era plus was around 103...another huge difference.

Voters are starting to use saber stats too. Bert Blyleven got elected and it was only because of the saber stat community that opened alot of voters eyes that got him in. Felix Hernandez won only 12 or 13 games a few years ago and he was named Cy Young, "10 years ago that never would have happened". It will only get more saber influenced as years go by too.

Edited by chicagowhitesox1173, 31 August 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#19 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

I see his point too but Buehrle has been ALOT better than Moyer.

Mark Buehrle's first 14 seasons..55.2 war
Jaime Moyer's first 14 seasons 27.9 war, Moyer ended up with 50.2 war in 25 seasons. This is a huge difference.

Buehrles career era plus is 118
Moyers caeer era plus was around 103...another huge difference.

Voters are starting to use saber stats too. Bert Blyleven got elected and it was only because of the saber stat community that opened alot of voters eyes that got him in. Felix Hernandez won only 12 or 13 games a few years ago and he was named Cy Young, "10 years ago that never would have happened". It will only get more saber influenced as years go by too.


Buehrle gives up way too many hits for him to get HoF consideration. He's led the AL in hits allowed 4 times. Batters have a career .272 average against him. He's not exactly an uncomfortable AB for most hitters.

But he is extremely durable and a workhorse. He goes out every 5 days and usually gives his team a chance to win. Every year you can count on him for 200+ innings, 10+ wins, and a respectable ERA.

He's thrown 2 no-hitters (one of them being a perfect game) and won a World Series. His resume is impressive. But he's not HoF material.

Edited by Posting In The Clutch, 31 August 2013 - 01:11 PM.

Oh my friends, my friends, forgive me

That I live and you are gone.

There's a grief that can't be spoken.

There's a pain goes on and on.