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Players Under PED Suspicion


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Poll: Players Under PED Suspicion (117 member(s) have cast votes)

How long is a proper PED suspension to be effectie

  1. 50 games (13 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. 100 games (13 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  3. 1 season (59 votes [50.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.43%

  4. 5 years (10 votes [8.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.55%

  5. Banned for life (22 votes [18.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.80%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:29 PM

Bautista with his 17th & 18th HR. MLB needs to crack down on this cheater. This is getting out of hand.


EDIT: OK, since we have literally done the in-depth PED discussion with Bautista already one time in the Bautista thread several pages ago, and there is literally NOTHING new to add info-wise (no news, nothing) since that discussion several weeks ago, it's a fair point that re-hashing this discussion in the Bautista thread is old news, and adding little to the player discussion (since it was literally covered in-depth several weeks ago).

Still, it is also clear by the discussion this weekend that the issue of PED use isn't going away, and that's understandable given the way MLB drug testing works (no blood tests). But, at the same time, it's fair to say that while Bautista is the major target for members to debate, he's also far from alone. So, after discussion within the Moderator group, rather than hijack the Bautista thread alone, we've split off the latest PED discussion - and we're widening the scope, so it can be used for other players, too. That way, we will not have to have the SAME PED discussion (effects, testing, etc.) in another player thread, either. If the discussion veers solely into PED use - we'll move those posts from player threads here - rather than hijack another player thread with a repeat of the exact same discussion done before. Now, if actual credible & verifiable news comes out on any player - totally different story, and that qualifies for entry into a player thread/separate news thread, depending on context. But if it's the same debate on PED use and users, then those go here. Let's see how it works out.


A reminder that no matter which side you fall on (Player X uses/is clean), in the end, we can always agree to disagree - and until any new info comes out, or MLB actually goes to blood testing (don't hold your breath on that one), each side is unlikely to persuade the other. That said, let's remain civil, on-topic, and respectful to each other, as per the CoC.

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#2 Giggy

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:31 PM

he's just the best player in the history of the sport!!!
20 Teams - H2H - Runs, RBIS, HR, SB, AVG,OBP/ Wins,Saves, Holds, K, ERA, WHIP

C: Jonathon Lucroy
1B: Paul Goldschmidt
2B: Robinson Cano
3B: Brett Lawrie
SS: JJ Hardy
IF: Aramis Ramirez
OF: Jeff Francouer, Delmon Young, Jon Jay, Cody Ross
Util: Travis Hafner
DL: Andy Dirks, Lorenzo Cain

SP: CC Sabathia, CJ Wilson, Francisco Liriano, Jon Lester
RP: Heath Bell, Jonny Venters, Tyler Clippard, Alexi Ogando, Tom Wilhelmsen, Ernesto Frieri
Bench: Drew Hutchison, Jose Quintana

#3 ThunderBalls

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:33 PM

MLB needs to crack down on this cheater. This is getting out of hand.


Hehe. I bet the normal day for him goes something like this. Gets to the ball park --> Hits 2 Home Runs --> gets into the locker room --> see's yet another rep from MLB --> "Hi there Mr. Bautista, here is your usual cup to pee in, Ill wait outside the stall for you as usual, thank you!"

#4 Mitchman

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:34 PM

MLB needs to crack down on this cheater. This is getting out of hand.


It is so obvious that he's cheating its not even funny but unfortunately a lot of the players are ahead of the testers and only the idiots like Manny get caught.
12 Team Mixed H2H
C- Ruiz
1B- Pujols
2B Pedrioia
SS Desmond
3B- M. Reynolds
OF- Grandy/Kemp/Victorino
Util- Upton/Lawrie
BN- Dunn
BN- Hill

SP- Sabathia/Cain/Garza/Holland/Vazquez/McDonald/Sale
P- Valverde
P- Clippard
P- Soriano

#5 dzemens

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:37 PM

It is so obvious that he's cheating its not even funny but unfortunately a lot of the players are ahead of the testers and only the idiots like Manny get caught.


Haters gonna hate. I just dont know what is so "obvious" at this point hes no bigger than he was prior, his head didnt grow a hat size, for god sake he weighs 195lbs, hes just crushing pitches in the zone. Take a look at the video of the two HR he hit. Curveball over the heart of the plate on the first one and a fast ball on the second. Hes been great at being selective and working the count so far this year and has had a TON of success by laying off pitches away and working the count to his favor then teeing off on pitches when he knows they have to challenge him. The walks arent aided by steroids nor is his great plate coverage. Theres no way on earth that I dont believe this guy is getting tested like crazy by MLB either simply because people such as yourself will have the tendency to assume what he is doing has to be cheating at this point, I just dont buy into the fact that he is.

Edited by dzemens, 21 May 2011 - 02:43 PM.

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#6 Rockshu

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:40 PM

Really? Still with the "cheating" crap?

Dude has never failed a test, he's the same size he was in Pittsburgh, and he's answered "speculative questions" about any drug abuse openly. He has satisfied MLB's standards, but apparently not those of a fantasy baseball fan. I'm sure he's devastated.

#7 Stubudd

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:46 PM

Haters gonna hate.


a friend of mine said he heard an interview the other day where they asked him about drug testing. He said he gets tested all the time- they asked him when was the last time. he said last night

#8 Max Rockatansky

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:52 PM

a friend of mine said he heard an interview the other day where they asked him about drug testing. He said he gets tested all the time- they asked him when was the last time. he said last night


They should ask him what kind of tests too
Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7......

#9 Triple Short Of a Cycle

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:55 PM

Really? Still with the "cheating" crap?

Dude has never failed a test, he's the same size he was in Pittsburgh, and he's answered "speculative questions" about any drug abuse openly. He has satisfied MLB's standards, but apparently not those of a fantasy baseball fan. I'm sure he's devastated.


So I guess he just became the greatest player in baseball history at age 29 by tweaking his stance. Come on people
14 team head to head points non keeper

C- Jason Castro
1B - Eric Hosmer
2B - Dustin Pedroia
SS - Brad Miller
3B - Josh Donaldson
OF - Andrew McCutchen,Kole Calhoun,Angel Pagan
DH - Aaron Hill

Bench -
DL -

SP - Jose Fernandez,James Shields,Gerrit Cole,Justin Masterson
RP - Sergio Romo,Sergio Santos

Bench - Chris Archer,Clay Buchholz,Joe Kelly,Noah Syndergarrd,Yordano Ventura,Drew Smyly,Nathan Eovaldi
DL - Matt Harrison
Trades -

#10 Max Rockatansky

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 02:56 PM

So I guess he just became the greatest player in baseball history at age 29 by tweaking his stance.


Obviously
Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7......

#11 Bobcat32

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:00 PM

So I guess he just became the greatest player in baseball history at age 29 by tweaking his stance.


No duh.
12-Team Yahoo! 5x5

C- McCann
1B - Konerko
2B - Kipnis
SS - Tulowitzki
3B - Bautista
OF - Gardner, Hart, Victorino
Util - J. Guzman
B - Morneau, Ibanez, Fowler

SP - Weaver, Hamels, Danks, Pineda, Vogelstrong, E. Santana
RP - Soria, Walden, League, Melancon,

#12 dzemens

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:03 PM

If you look back at his numbers at all levels, the power isnt exactly the first thing if anything that jumps out at you. That said he doesnt seem to fit the profile of a juicer as there has been no outward physical change in appearance, build etc as we have seen with the juicers in the past. Hes a 195lb player and thats what hes been. The uptick in HR can and does draw the suspicion of many but one thing I notice along with the increase in HR and power, is that around the same time he started hitting HR he started to be much more selective, in 2009 he had 56BB in 404PA, his previous high for walks in his career was 68 in 614PA in 2008. It seems to be that a correction in his swing along with a more refined and patient approach at the plate have turned him into a much differnet player. Is it possible that hes cheating, yes but until something concrete comes out all it is is speculation by people on a message board. As alluded to before hes being tested by MLB and has yet to fail a test and Toronto must have had a good deal of faith that cheating was not an issue here to give him the contract they did. Just my two cents worth.
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#13 RotoRaysfan

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:07 PM

Y'know, we went back about 8 pages (and about 10 days ago) past with the PED talk. We might as well acknowledge the doubts will ALWAYS be there as long as there is no blood testing - and that applies to every player in the MLB, not just Bautista - he just happens to be the poster child for suspicion because of his breakout at the later stage in his career. But, on the other hand, I'm not really sure we have any new info on the situation - in the end, perhaps those who suspect and those who don't should just agree to disagree. I don't know we're really adding ANYTHING new here.

Regardless of the stand you take, you have to tip your cap to Bautista's production. At this rate, he's on pace for a 60+ HR season....and barely able to get 100 RBI's. B)

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#14 Bobcat32

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:13 PM

If he's cheating, then I hope he doesn't get caught until September 30.
12-Team Yahoo! 5x5

C- McCann
1B - Konerko
2B - Kipnis
SS - Tulowitzki
3B - Bautista
OF - Gardner, Hart, Victorino
Util - J. Guzman
B - Morneau, Ibanez, Fowler

SP - Weaver, Hamels, Danks, Pineda, Vogelstrong, E. Santana
RP - Soria, Walden, League, Melancon,

#15 Rockshu

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:14 PM

Unless steroids also increase your pitch recognition and strike zone coverage I don't see how you can think they have caused this drastic turnaround. In April 2010 he only hit 4 HR but was taking a ton of walks, which is why he spent a lot of time leading off. As the batting average came up and the power sustained he was moved into the middle of the lineup. My point is, the plate discipline came before the power outburst, and I think the power is atleast partially a result of that increase in plate discipline.

#16 Jeets

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:31 PM

Oh. My. LORD. The steroid talk is so obviously a thinly veiled "sour grapes" reaction. There is ZERO evidence of steroid use. (PS - PED users can EASILY show no obvious physical change in appearance with the drugs that exist these days - but that's neither here nor there....there's simply no evidence of cheating - period).

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE end the steroid talk until there is some SHRED of evidence against him?? Can we not enjoy the fact that we are potentially witnessing real baseball history?? If evidence comes out supporting the opposite, then we can grab the torches and pitchforks. Until then...enjoy the his possibly historic production.

#17 dzemens

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:34 PM

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE end the steroid talk until there is some SHRED of evidence against him?? Can we not enjoy the fact that we are potentially witnessing real baseball history?? If evidence comes out supporting the opposite, then we can grab the torches and pitchforks. Until then...enjoy his possibly historic season.


Couldnt agree more.
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#18 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:38 PM

You guys will look silly when evidence does come out.

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That I live and you are gone.

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#19 HellsBells

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 03:59 PM

You guys will look silly when evidence does come out.


And you don`t have to worry about looking silly because there will never be public evidence that he is clean.

Why say other people will look silly when there is absolutely no chance that you can be proven wrong, even if you are wrong.

Take your stance, fine, but talking as if you have any more facts than anyone else is ridiculous.

#20 Ty Lawsome

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 04:05 PM

If steroids were what makes someone a good hitter, then this guy would hit like 200 per year. They may turn a few warning track outs into homers, but they're not going to increase your average 100 pts.