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Best Starting Lineup vs Good BenchHow to win your league


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#1 AshesAndLaughter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

I have been spending some time in the Assistant Coach forum lately and I have seen a common theme among those providing guidance. That theme has been, "Don't do that trade! It kills your depth."

This is somewhat puzzling to me, because I have always played the fake football game to get the best possible starting lineup even if it sacrifices depth.

Personally, I am always looking at ways to improve my starters. If I can package 2 guys for one and it makes my starting team better on a per game basis, I am going to do that every time.

I think it is an important discussion to have. The strategy of sacrificing bench depth in order to improve the starting lineup has hurt me in the past (like last year when I lost Percy Harvin and his 20pts per game in PPR). It is definitely a high risk, but I think it is a risk that is worth taking.

What are your thoughts?
12-team PPR (Record 0-1)
4pt passing TDs
2 Flex Spots and no kicker:

QB: Russell Wilson
RB: Shane Vereen
RB: Rashad Jennings
WR: Demaryius Thomas
WR: Julio Jones
Flex: Roddy White
Flex: Chris Johnson
TE: Travis Kelce
Def: none currently

Bench:
RBs: Toby Gerhart, Fred Jackson, Ahmad Bradshaw
WRs: Kelvin Benjamin,
Holds: Josh Gordon, Matt Asiata, Jerrick McKinnon

#2 Garrett W.

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:52 PM

There's a fine line, just as there is in anything.

CSB - but with the team below, I've been contemplating shopping Torrey and Luck for an upgrade at QB. It would leave me with Megatron, Antonio Brown and Keenan at WR. Pretty solid WRs, but with Amendola and nothing behind them on the bench.

My thought: the downgrade from Torrey (on one of their bye weeks, if one gets hurt) to a waiver wire WR is far bigger of a drop than it is from a potential upgrade, even like Rodgers, to Luck.

I always want at least one player on my bench at QB/RB/WR that I feel completely comfortable starting in a pinch. After that, I'll start dealing depth to upgrade starters.
10-team keeper PPR

QB Stafford
RB Lacy
RB Ingram
WR J.Jones
WR Cobb
WR A.Brown
TE J.Thomas
DEF Texans
K Nugent

RB Pierce
RB Asiata
RB T. Richardson
RB Jones-Drew
RB Ridley
RB Bradshaw
RB McKinnon

#3 AshesAndLaughter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostGarrett W., on 17 October 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

There's a fine line, just as there is in anything.

CSB - but with the team below, I've been contemplating shopping Torrey and Luck for an upgrade at QB. It would leave me with Megatron, Antonio Brown and Keenan at WR. Pretty solid WRs, but with Amendola and nothing behind them on the bench.

My thought: the downgrade from Torrey (on one of their bye weeks, if one gets hurt) to a waiver wire WR is far bigger of a drop than it is from a potential upgrade, even like Rodgers, to Luck.

I always want at least one player on my bench at QB/RB/WR that I feel completely comfortable starting in a pinch. After that, I'll start dealing depth to upgrade starters.

I think that hypothetical trades in this discussion are warranted. For those reading this, it should NOT turn into an assistant coach thread. For team specific trades check out the AC Forum on here, it is really helpful.

I understand that the risk of losing the depth can be tough for some to grapple with. And IF a starter does get hurt, it really hurts your chances at a championship. However, IF those starters don't get hurt you are looking at a nice run to the finish. I do this every year. I blow up my bench just to improve 1 starter spot. Last year was the first year it really hurt when Percy Harvin went out.

What do other people do. I would love to get some more perspective. Personally, I am about at that stage of the year that I am going to blow up my bench just to improve one starter.

Edited by AshesAndLaughter, 17 October 2013 - 03:08 PM.

12-team PPR (Record 0-1)
4pt passing TDs
2 Flex Spots and no kicker:

QB: Russell Wilson
RB: Shane Vereen
RB: Rashad Jennings
WR: Demaryius Thomas
WR: Julio Jones
Flex: Roddy White
Flex: Chris Johnson
TE: Travis Kelce
Def: none currently

Bench:
RBs: Toby Gerhart, Fred Jackson, Ahmad Bradshaw
WRs: Kelvin Benjamin,
Holds: Josh Gordon, Matt Asiata, Jerrick McKinnon

#4 iloveopenbar

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

i try to balance it out.  i like having depth during the first half of the season with injuries and bye weeks.  then during the later parts of the season try to do 2 for 1 deals for a playoff push.
12 team ppr
---
qb - locker, rivers
rb - rashad jennings, vereen, gerhart, mckinnon
wr - d thomas, jordy, j hunter
te - antonio gates, j cameron
flex - dez
d - tampa, houston
k - --

10 team standard
---
qb - foles, cutler
rb - charles, demarco, d martin, b pierce
wr- j hunter, t smith, k allen, garcon, j gordon
te - k rudolph, h miller
flex - asiata
d - houston
k - parkey

#5 pnoozi

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

Injuries are bound to happen in ff.  But depth is not a luxury you can afford in a 14 team league.  I'm not about to have a solid producer sitting on my bench if I'm hurting at another position.
NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR TEAM

Developer of the Highlights Chrome extension (currently unpublished, working on bringing it back).

QB TOM BRADY
WR VINCENT JACKSON, WR PERCY HARVIN, WR MARQUES COLSTON
RB MARSHAWN LYNCH, RB GIOVANI BERNARD
TE HEATH MILLER
W/R/T DANNY WOODHEAD
K MASON CROSBY, DEF KANSAS CITY
BN DANNY AMENDOLA, JEREMY KERLEY, STEVIE JOHNSON, MIKE WILLIAMS, NEW YORK JETS

#6 Backdoor Slider

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

I hate having production on my bench. I almost always attempt to trade my depth away for the best player. I want the best players I can get at each position, not a good player on my bench that I may or may not play.
Just my $.02. It's worked pretty well for me.
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Keep up to 7 (Lose round per keeper):

Goldschmidt
JFernandez
Bryce
Kipnis
CGomez
--------------
TFrazier
Teheran

C.Davis
Pence
CSantana
CHamels
DMesoraco

#7 Skoodog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

Depth vs talent is extremely important in fantasy football as opportunity can make bad talent good fantasy plays.  Just look at the Steelers.

Bench depth vs top talent is a lot like dating a hot girl vs dating two chubby chicks. The hot one will probably leave you hanging while the latter option is a guaranteed lay.
Legend has it...they don't check on the weekends...

#8 Armalite

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

It's good to have depth but if you're able to upgrade at a position at the expense of guys on your bench you may or may not start than do it.
20 TEAM PPR IDP LEAGUE, Sex Grossman's Cannon
QB) Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Blake Bortles
RB) Eddie Lacy, Shonn Greene, Bernard Pierce, Ronnie Hillman, Jerrick McKinnon, Lorenzo Taliaferro
WR) Keenan Allen, Torrey Smith, Roddy White, Denard Robinson, Robert Woods
TE) Jordan Cameron, Larry Donell
K) Blair Walsh
DEF) Houston Texans
DB) Harrison Smith
DL) Rob Ninkovich
LB) Paul Worrilow

#9 Mek Daddy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

View Postiloveopenbar, on 17 October 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

i try to balance it out.  i like having depth during the first half of the season with injuries and bye weeks.  then during the later parts of the season try to do 2 for 1 deals for a playoff push.

I agree with this. Without depth, especially early in the season, an injury can be devastating. Also, it makes bye weeks extremely difficult to manage. Of course, you want to have the best starters you can, but if you sell out to have incredible starters and have no one behind them, injuries and bye weeks can easily cost you your season.

#10 scienergy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts.   A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no...  More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling.  Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis.  The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.

#11 Demigod

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:43 PM

You play to win the game.

#12 Mek Daddy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

View Postscienergy, on 17 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts.   A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no...  More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling.  Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis.  The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.

LOL People really thought Bowe and Gordon were equal?

#13 Drake44444

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:20 PM

I'm surprised people really can find people willing to trade fairly.  Everyone wants the moon for their junk in leagues I am in.

#14 The Dirtdog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostMek Daddy, on 17 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

View Postscienergy, on 17 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts.   A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no...  More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling.  Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis.  The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.

LOL People really thought Bowe and Gordon were equal?
You realize before the season Bowe was being rated higher than Gordon universally, and not because Gordon was out for 2 weeks, right?

#15 MickeyMouse

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostDemigod, on 17 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

You play to win the game.
TLDR

#16 clarkevii

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:11 PM

all that matters is your staring lineup in the playoffs

Edited by clarkevii, 17 October 2013 - 06:11 PM.

16 Team League: Start 2 WRS / 2 RBS & Flex, Standard / All TDs 6 PTS

2013 CHAMPS

1 - 0

QB: Tom Brady, Geno Smith
RB: Marshawn Lynch, Rashaad Jennings, Chris Johnson, Toby Gerhardt
WR: Dex Bryant, Roddy White, Josh Gordon, Andrew Hawkins
TE: Dwayne Allen, Ladarius Green
D: Baltimore Ravens
K: Nate Freese

#17 Sternes

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

I generally try to get the best players I can and then fill out the roster with guys who I think have value.   As the season goes I try to trade my depth and a lineup player to get a better lineup player.   By the playoffs I want to have the best roster possible, and traded off any spare parts I can to upgrade the lineup and have minimal backups at each position.
QB - Newton, Pryor
RB - T. Richardson, D. Murray, C. Ivory, P. Hillis, K. Robinson, A. Ellington, C. Ogbonnaya
WR - Marshall, M. Wallace, D. Thomas, TY Hilton
TE - Gates
K - Hauschka
DEF - Patriots

#18 vweaver

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:38 PM

While injuries aren't guaranteed to happen- it only takes one or two to drop your chances if you're not deep.

That being said, the important factor here is match-ups.  Unless you're in an 8 team league with a bunch of noobs who didn't know how to draft, chances are you don't have a match-up-proof team.  

In league A, I have Steven Jackson and Trent Richardson on my bench this week.  I'm deep enough with MJD, Jacquizz Rogers, and Andre Ellington that I can afford to not sweat having my top two drafted RB's sitting.

In league B, I have Boldin, Jordy Nelson, and Harry Douglas (I dropped Julio Jones) on my bench this week.  I get to start Welker, and Alshon Jeffery with my depth.

In league C, I'm benching RG3, Roddy White, Kenbrell Thompkins and Percy Harvin while starting Phillip Rivers, Demaryius Thomas, and Justin Blackmon.  

Depth, Depth, Depth.   I've had BIG injury problems this year in those three leagues:  Steven Jackson x 2, Roddy White x 2, Julio Jones, and a few others for a game here and there.   I've also stashed Justin Blackmon in two leagues, and am stashing Percy Harvin in another for a couple of weeks.  I'm not leading any of the three leagues- but I'm solidly in the chase thanks to depth.

#19 THall0890

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:44 PM

I think it's all based on the player/owner.

The likelihood of injury to a starter is very high (Cobb, S Jackson, Jones, Murray) so I'd rather have some depth that can still provide me production if a starter goes down. It's nice having the best lineup possible but you're pretty much screwed if a starter goes down and you have absolutely no replacement in terms of production.

CSB: Drafted Roddy before news of his injury surfaced at the beginning of the season. He's been useless all season. I just lost Cobb. Beyond them I have a bunch of WRs that most teams wouldn't even start. My season is basically over if I don't make the miraculous trade I just made a couple days ago. Depth could have avoided the situation.

Edited by THall0890, 17 October 2013 - 08:48 PM.

#1 $$$ ESPN 12-teamer pts standard h2h redraft (15-6)
C: D Navarro
1B: E Encarnacion, M Adams (BN)
2B: D Gordon
3B: A Rendon, J Donaldson (BN,) A Ramirez (BN)
SS: A Escobar
OF: J Upton, A Jones, Corey Dickerson
Util: K Calhoun, M Carpenter
SP: M Scherzer, Z Greinke, J Shields, G Cole, A Wood, J Paxton
RP: F Rodriguez, K Quackenbush, D Robertson, E Mujica, S Doolittle (DL)
#2 $$$ Yahoo 10-teamer 18-cat h2h redraft (195-167-34)
C: W Ramos
1B: L Duda
2B: N Walker, D Santana (BN)
3B: E Encarnacion, A Ramirez (IF)
SS: J Hardy
OF: J Lagares (CF,) S Marte (OF,) K Calhoun (RF,) W Myers (BN,) K Davis (LF,) L Martin (BN,) M Cuddyer (BN)
Util: M Adams
SP: F Hernandez, M Scherzer, H Ryu,  A Cobb, Y Ventura, R Porcello, J Lackey, M Fiers, M Pineda
RP: D Storen, Z Britton, K Quackenbush, S Doolittle (DL)

#20 SkinsChargersFan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:47 PM

I try to acquire depth early in order to trade to upgrade my starting lineup around midseason. This season I've been hit unusually hard with injuries, so having that depth before has helped me stay in the chase (even if I no longer have great trade bait on my bench).

Long story short, I believe it's important to try and build as much depth as possible early on, especially at thin positions like RB & TE, bc not only can you trade it off later, but it covers your a** as well in the event of injuries.




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