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Best Starting Lineup vs Good Bench


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#1 AshesAndLaughter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

I have been spending some time in the Assistant Coach forum lately and I have seen a common theme among those providing guidance. That theme has been, "Don't do that trade! It kills your depth."

This is somewhat puzzling to me, because I have always played the fake football game to get the best possible starting lineup even if it sacrifices depth.

Personally, I am always looking at ways to improve my starters. If I can package 2 guys for one and it makes my starting team better on a per game basis, I am going to do that every time.

I think it is an important discussion to have. The strategy of sacrificing bench depth in order to improve the starting lineup has hurt me in the past (like last year when I lost Percy Harvin and his 20pts per game in PPR). It is definitely a high risk, but I think it is a risk that is worth taking.

What are your thoughts?

12-team PPR; 4pt passing TDs, 2 Flex Spots and no kicker (HIGH FIVE):

QB: Russell Wilson
RB: Rashad Jennings
RB: Jerick McKinnon
WR: Demaryius Thomas

WR: TY Hilton
Flex: Cecil Shorts
Flex: DeAndre Hopkins
TE: Super Smash Rob Gronkowski
Def: Stream

Bench:

Mike Wallace Jeremy Hill, Bryce Brown, Dan Herron, Kyle Rudolph, Juwan Thompson

 

Biggest trade of the year:

Week 3: Sent Matt Asiata, received TY Hilton.

Week 10: Sent Julio Jones + Vereen + Donnell; received Rob Gronkowski and DeAndre Hopkins


#2 Garrett W.

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:52 PM

There's a fine line, just as there is in anything.

CSB - but with the team below, I've been contemplating shopping Torrey and Luck for an upgrade at QB. It would leave me with Megatron, Antonio Brown and Keenan at WR. Pretty solid WRs, but with Amendola and nothing behind them on the bench.

My thought: the downgrade from Torrey (on one of their bye weeks, if one gets hurt) to a waiver wire WR is far bigger of a drop than it is from a potential upgrade, even like Rodgers, to Luck.

I always want at least one player on my bench at QB/RB/WR that I feel completely comfortable starting in a pinch. After that, I'll start dealing depth to upgrade starters.

10-team keeper PPR

QB Brees
RB Forte

RB McCoy

WR A.Brown

WR D.Jackson

WR ODB

TE Graham

DEF Chargers

K Graham

 

QB Sanchez

RB CJ Anderson

RB Rainey

RB Carey
RB Polk

WR S.Smith

WR K.Allen

#3 AshesAndLaughter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

There's a fine line, just as there is in anything.

CSB - but with the team below, I've been contemplating shopping Torrey and Luck for an upgrade at QB. It would leave me with Megatron, Antonio Brown and Keenan at WR. Pretty solid WRs, but with Amendola and nothing behind them on the bench.

My thought: the downgrade from Torrey (on one of their bye weeks, if one gets hurt) to a waiver wire WR is far bigger of a drop than it is from a potential upgrade, even like Rodgers, to Luck.

I always want at least one player on my bench at QB/RB/WR that I feel completely comfortable starting in a pinch. After that, I'll start dealing depth to upgrade starters.


I think that hypothetical trades in this discussion are warranted. For those reading this, it should NOT turn into an assistant coach thread. For team specific trades check out the AC Forum on here, it is really helpful.

I understand that the risk of losing the depth can be tough for some to grapple with. And IF a starter does get hurt, it really hurts your chances at a championship. However, IF those starters don't get hurt you are looking at a nice run to the finish. I do this every year. I blow up my bench just to improve 1 starter spot. Last year was the first year it really hurt when Percy Harvin went out.

What do other people do. I would love to get some more perspective. Personally, I am about at that stage of the year that I am going to blow up my bench just to improve one starter.

Edited by AshesAndLaughter, 17 October 2013 - 03:08 PM.

12-team PPR; 4pt passing TDs, 2 Flex Spots and no kicker (HIGH FIVE):

QB: Russell Wilson
RB: Rashad Jennings
RB: Jerick McKinnon
WR: Demaryius Thomas

WR: TY Hilton
Flex: Cecil Shorts
Flex: DeAndre Hopkins
TE: Super Smash Rob Gronkowski
Def: Stream

Bench:

Mike Wallace Jeremy Hill, Bryce Brown, Dan Herron, Kyle Rudolph, Juwan Thompson

 

Biggest trade of the year:

Week 3: Sent Matt Asiata, received TY Hilton.

Week 10: Sent Julio Jones + Vereen + Donnell; received Rob Gronkowski and DeAndre Hopkins


#4 iloveopenbar

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

i try to balance it out. i like having depth during the first half of the season with injuries and bye weeks. then during the later parts of the season try to do 2 for 1 deals for a playoff push.

12 team ppr
---
qb - rivers, cam
wr - jordy, dez, davante adams
rb - rashad jennings, jeremy hill, fred jackson, chris ivory, latavius murray

te - gronk
flex - demaryius

d - buffalo, houston
k - ---

10 team standard
---
qb - cutler, wilson
rb - charles, alfred blue, ryan mathews, terrance west, knile davis, dan herron

wr- josh gordon, alson, martavis bryant
te - fleener, kelce
flex - julio
d - indy
k - parkey


#5 pnoozi

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

Injuries are bound to happen in ff. But depth is not a luxury you can afford in a 14 team league. I'm not about to have a solid producer sitting on my bench if I'm hurting at another position.

NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR TEAM

Developer of the Highlights Chrome extension (currently unpublished, working on bringing it back).

QB TOM BRADY ANDY DALTON TOM BRADY
WR VINCENT JACKSON, WR TORREY SMITH, WR MALCOM FLOYD
RB MARSHAWN LYNCH, RB GIOVANI BERNARD
TE VERNON DAVIS
W/R/T THEO RIDDICK
K MASON CROSBY, DEF KANSAS CITY


#6 Backdoor Slider

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

I hate having production on my bench. I almost always attempt to trade my depth away for the best player. I want the best players I can get at each position, not a good player on my bench that I may or may not play.
Just my $.02. It's worked pretty well for me.
**Poster Formerly Known as 2Balls

Keep up to 7 (Lose round per keeper):

Goldschmidt
JFernandez
Bryce
Kipnis
CGomez
--------------
TFrazier
Teheran

C.Davis
Pence
CSantana
CHamels
DMesoraco

#7 Skoodog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

Depth vs talent is extremely important in fantasy football as opportunity can make bad talent good fantasy plays. Just look at the Steelers.

Bench depth vs top talent is a lot like dating a hot girl vs dating two chubby chicks. The hot one will probably leave you hanging while the latter option is a guaranteed lay.
Legend has it...they don't check on the weekends...

#8 Armalite

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

It's good to have depth but if you're able to upgrade at a position at the expense of guys on your bench you may or may not start than do it.
20 TEAM PPR IDP LEAGUE, Rex Kwon Do
QB) Joe Flacco, Robert Griffin III
RB) Eddie Lacy, Jeremy Hill, CJ Anderson, Jerrick McKinnon, Lorenzo Taliaferro
WR) Keenan Allen, Torrey Smith, Roddy White, Davante Adams, Harry Douglas
TE) Jordan Cameron, Larry Donell
K) Blair Walsh
DEF) Houston Texans
DB) Clinton Ha Ha Dix
DL) Robert Quinn
LB) Anthony Barr

#9 Mek Daddy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

i try to balance it out. i like having depth during the first half of the season with injuries and bye weeks. then during the later parts of the season try to do 2 for 1 deals for a playoff push.


I agree with this. Without depth, especially early in the season, an injury can be devastating. Also, it makes bye weeks extremely difficult to manage. Of course, you want to have the best starters you can, but if you sell out to have incredible starters and have no one behind them, injuries and bye weeks can easily cost you your season.

#10 scienergy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts. A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no... More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling. Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis. The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.

#11 Demigod

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:43 PM

You play to win the game.

#12 Mek Daddy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts. A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no... More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling. Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis. The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.


LOL People really thought Bowe and Gordon were equal?

#13 Drake44444

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:20 PM

I'm surprised people really can find people willing to trade fairly. Everyone wants the moon for their junk in leagues I am in.

#14 The Dirtdog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:30 PM


Before the season started, I "killed" my dynasty depth by trading Bowe & Bryce Brown for Josh Gordon & Andre Roberts. A few guys in my league razzed me for it "Bowe & Gordon are equal while Brown is a stud and Roberts is disposable"

No, gents, no... More like Bowe doesn't have a QB to throw the deep ball and is loosing explosiveness due to age, and Brown is a one-trick pony backup known for fumbling. Roberts is disposable (I've already disposed of him).

Lets see... 2 guys who I couldn't start vs 1 guy I roll out on a weekly basis. The decision was easy and I am winning games because of this trade.


LOL People really thought Bowe and Gordon were equal?

You realize before the season Bowe was being rated higher than Gordon universally, and not because Gordon was out for 2 weeks, right?

#15 MickeyMouse

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

You play to win the game.

TLDR

#16 clarkevii

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:11 PM

all that matters is your staring lineup in the playoffs

Edited by clarkevii, 17 October 2013 - 06:11 PM.

16 Team League: Start 2 WRS / 2 RBS & Flex, Standard / All TDs 6 PTS

2013: CHAMPS

2014: 6 - 4

QB: Eli Manning, Kyle Orton
RB: LeSean McCoy, Rashaad Jennings, Andre Williams, Jonas Grey
WR: Dez Bryant, Kelvin Benjamin, Josh Gordon, Roddy White
TE: Dwayne Allen
D: Detroit Lions, Baltimore Ravens
K: Adam Vinatieri


#17 Sternes

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

I generally try to get the best players I can and then fill out the roster with guys who I think have value. As the season goes I try to trade my depth and a lineup player to get a better lineup player. By the playoffs I want to have the best roster possible, and traded off any spare parts I can to upgrade the lineup and have minimal backups at each position.

#18 vweaver

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:38 PM

While injuries aren't guaranteed to happen- it only takes one or two to drop your chances if you're not deep.

That being said, the important factor here is match-ups. Unless you're in an 8 team league with a bunch of noobs who didn't know how to draft, chances are you don't have a match-up-proof team.

In league A, I have Steven Jackson and Trent Richardson on my bench this week. I'm deep enough with MJD, Jacquizz Rogers, and Andre Ellington that I can afford to not sweat having my top two drafted RB's sitting.

In league B, I have Boldin, Jordy Nelson, and Harry Douglas (I dropped Julio Jones) on my bench this week. I get to start Welker, and Alshon Jeffery with my depth.

In league C, I'm benching RG3, Roddy White, Kenbrell Thompkins and Percy Harvin while starting Phillip Rivers, Demaryius Thomas, and Justin Blackmon.

Depth, Depth, Depth. I've had BIG injury problems this year in those three leagues: Steven Jackson x 2, Roddy White x 2, Julio Jones, and a few others for a game here and there. I've also stashed Justin Blackmon in two leagues, and am stashing Percy Harvin in another for a couple of weeks. I'm not leading any of the three leagues- but I'm solidly in the chase thanks to depth.

#19 THall0890

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:44 PM

I think it's all based on the player/owner.

The likelihood of injury to a starter is very high (Cobb, S Jackson, Jones, Murray) so I'd rather have some depth that can still provide me production if a starter goes down. It's nice having the best lineup possible but you're pretty much screwed if a starter goes down and you have absolutely no replacement in terms of production.

CSB: Drafted Roddy before news of his injury surfaced at the beginning of the season. He's been useless all season. I just lost Cobb. Beyond them I have a bunch of WRs that most teams wouldn't even start. My season is basically over if I don't make the miraculous trade I just made a couple days ago. Depth could have avoided the situation.

Edited by THall0890, 17 October 2013 - 08:48 PM.

#1 $$$ ESPN 12-teamer standard keeper (9-2)
QB: J Cutler // RB: M Forte, L Miller // WR: B Marshall, R Cobb // TE: T Kelce // FLEX: G Tate // D/ST: Lions

K: C Parkey // BN: D Martin, C Sims, K Carey, T Smith, J Hunter, K Rudolph, M Sanchez
 

#2 $$$ ESPN 10-teamer standard redraft (6-5)

QB: M Ryan // RB: E Lacy, R Jennings // WR: D Bryant, R Cobb // TE: Z Ertz // FLEX: G Tate // D/ST: Bills

K: A Vinatieri // BN: R Mathews, C Ivory, J Starks, A Johnson, J Mathews, R Wayne, R Wilson

 

#3 $$$ ESPN 12-teamer ppr (1) redraft (8-3)

QB: Z Mettenberger // RB: J Charles, I Crowell // WR: J Nelson, J Jones // TE: K Rudolph // FLEX: E Decker // OP: R Griffin // DP: D Levy               D/ST: Eagles // K: A Vinatieri // BN: K Davis, B Tate, L Miller, L Murray, T Smith, Z Ertz, B Roethlisberger

 


#20 SkinsChargersFan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:47 PM

I try to acquire depth early in order to trade to upgrade my starting lineup around midseason. This season I've been hit unusually hard with injuries, so having that depth before has helped me stay in the chase (even if I no longer have great trade bait on my bench).

Long story short, I believe it's important to try and build as much depth as possible early on, especially at thin positions like RB & TE, bc not only can you trade it off later, but it covers your a** as well in the event of injuries.