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Sano vs. TavaresWho do you like best long term?


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#1 33legend

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

Who do you guys like best long term between these two for Fantasy?

Sano has monster power and Tavares has huge all around hitting upside.  Would love to hear some discussion.
C- BPosey (1B), WRamos, YMolina
1B- PGoldschmidt, CDavis, EHosmer, (Posey), (Trumbo)
2B- RCano, HKendrick, (Carpenter)
SS- JReyes, ACabrera,
3B- MCarpenter, CHeadley
OF- MTrout, CGomez, ARios, SSChoo, MHolliday, MTrumbo
DH- DOrtiz

SP- DPrice, SStrasburg, CLee, JTeheran, ASanchez, SGray, HJRyu, AJ Burnett, DKeuchel, JOdorizzi

RP- JPapelbon, CJanssen, ZBritton

12 team 34 Man Rosters
Start 13 Offense and 8 pitchers
6X6 (standard categories plus OPS and innings pitched)
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#2 Posting In The Clutch

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 02:31 PM

Given position scarcity and Sano's talent in general, I'll take Sano.
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#3 pduce242424

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

I'd go with Tavares and the quality hitting.  He won't be a slouch in the HR department either, although not on the same level as Sano. Tavares seems like the safer bet to succeed and hit his ceiling, so I wouldn't gamble and chase the long ball when both players have high ceilings.

As far as position scarcity, if Tavares can play CF, and you're in leagues that have individual OF spots (LF,CF,RF), then his power potential is unique for the position.

Edited by pduce242424, 11 November 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#4 FouLLine

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:49 PM

View PostPosting In The Clutch, on 09 November 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Given position scarcity and Sano's talent in general, I'll take Sano.

Agreed.  It's Sano for sure for me.  A 3B over an OF.

Now Oscar Taveras is honestly the "safer" pick.  A far better contact rate, better batting averages, the better base stealer, as well as higher up in the minor league system.

But Sano takes the cake for me because.  First off he's a 3B, he's a year younger, he's already shown more "walk-ability", and mostly for me he's already shown elite power in the minors.

Plus despite being a year younger Sano has 50 more games played in the minors.  But clearly AA pitching found ways to get Sano out.  In AA Sano only hit .238 and struck out 29.3% of the time.  But the best part about his AA numbers which goes unseen to most is that 67.3% of his hits went for extra bases!!  It's just a matter of Sano getting more comfortable situationaly as a hitter.  The hands and t

#5 compsella

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

View PostFouLLine, on 12 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostPosting In The Clutch, on 09 November 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Given position scarcity and Sano's talent in general, I'll take Sano.

Agreed.  It's Sano for sure for me.  A 3B over an OF.

Now Oscar Taveras is honestly the "safer" pick.  A far better contact rate, better batting averages, the better base stealer, as well as higher up in the minor league system.

But Sano takes the cake for me because.  First off he's a 3B, he's a year younger, he's already shown more "walk-ability", and mostly for me he's already shown elite power in the minors.

Plus despite being a year younger Sano has 50 more games played in the minors.  But clearly AA pitching found ways to get Sano out.  In AA Sano only hit .238 and struck out 29.3% of the time.  But the best part about his AA numbers which goes unseen to most is that 67.3% of his hits went for extra bases!!  It's just a matter of Sano getting more comfortable situationaly as a hitter.  The hands and t

But there's also the team factor.  Sano is protected by ???   OT has a plethora of talent around him leading to more counting stats, at least in the short-term (assuming no trades).

edit: though an argument could be made that Sano will immediately be thrust into the 3rd or 4th spot, and OT will have to hit his way up the lineup.

Edited by compsella, 19 November 2013 - 01:41 PM.

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C  Doug Gwosdz, Mackey Sasser
1B  Razor Shines
2B  Arquimedez Pozo
3B  Scat Metha, Jim Walewander
SS  Steve Jeltz
OF  Johnny Dickshot, Rusty Kuntz, Bristol Robotham Lord, Johnny Wockenfuss, Hiram Bocachica
UT  Drungo Hazewood, Coot Veal

SP  Kevin Mmahat, Steve Fireovid, Cannonball Titcomb, Lil Stoner, Roy Face, Juan Eichelberger
RP  Ed Head, Boots Poffenberger, Firpo Marberry, Yorman Bazardo, Fu-Te Ni

MNR Joey Terdoslavich, Rougned Odor, Kevin Quackenbush

#6 N.O. Boston 33

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:35 PM

View Postcompsella, on 19 November 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

View PostFouLLine, on 12 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostPosting In The Clutch, on 09 November 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Given position scarcity and Sano's talent in general, I'll take Sano.

Agreed.  It's Sano for sure for me.  A 3B over an OF.

Now Oscar Taveras is honestly the "safer" pick.  A far better contact rate, better batting averages, the better base stealer, as well as higher up in the minor league system.

But Sano takes the cake for me because.  First off he's a 3B, he's a year younger, he's already shown more "walk-ability", and mostly for me he's already shown elite power in the minors.

Plus despite being a year younger Sano has 50 more games played in the minors.  But clearly AA pitching found ways to get Sano out.  In AA Sano only hit .238 and struck out 29.3% of the time.  But the best part about his AA numbers which goes unseen to most is that 67.3% of his hits went for extra bases!!  It's just a matter of Sano getting more comfortable situationaly as a hitter.  The hands and t

But there's also the team factor.  Sano is protected by ???   OT has a plethora of talent around him leading to more counting stats, at least in the short-term (assuming no trades).

edit: though an argument could be made that Sano will immediately be thrust into the 3rd or 4th spot, and OT will have to hit his way up the lineup.

Buxton, Sano and Arcia, and hicks is a nice young core for the lineup, plus Mauer is pretty solid in his own right. Were talkin 2 years away, I would not be worried about lineup protection at this point.

Overall its a tough comp, classic case of low risk vs high upside.  Bryant vs Sano is a more interesting question to me; of course Bryant is no lock to stay at third though.

Edited by N.O. Boston 33, 20 November 2013 - 06:41 PM.

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C Jarrod Saltalamacchia
1B Kendrys, Eric Hosmer
SS Jed Lowrie, Emilio Bonifacio
3B Juan Francisco
2B Erick Aybar
OF Jacoby Ellsbury, Magglio Ordonez, Marlon Byrd, Roger Bernadina, Mike Trout, Michael Taylor, Wily Mo Pena

SP Edinson Volquez, Derek Holland, Charlie Morton, Clay Buchholz, Julio Teheran
SP Brandon Webb
RP Mike Dunn, Nick Masset, Alfredo Aceves, Felix Dubront, Kris Medlen, Bill Bray

MILB Billy Hamilton, Kolbrin Vitek, Jiovanni Mier, Bryce Harper, Tyler Skaggs
MILB Ryan Westmoreland,  Chris Archer, Ethan Martin,  Reymond Fuentes
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#7 FouLLine

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostN.O. Boston 33, on 20 November 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Buxton, Sano and Arcia, and hicks is a nice young core for the lineup, plus Mauer is pretty solid in his own right. Were talkin 2 years away, I would not be worried about lineup protection at this point.

Overall its a tough comp, classic case of low risk vs high upside.  Bryant vs Sano is a more interesting question to me; of course Bryant is no lock to stay at third though.

It's Bryant by a landslide for me.  As much power as Sano has I couldn't say Bryant has any less.  But clearly Bryant is the more polished hitter right now.  Now if Bryant gets moved to OF and Sano sticks at 3B that would even the argument out a bit.  But I'd still go with Bryant.

#8 N.O. Boston 33

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:21 PM

I agree but to say hes more polished could be a bit of a stretch, Sano has AA at bats and Bryant does not.
Stifler 18 Team Dynasty League

C Jarrod Saltalamacchia
1B Kendrys, Eric Hosmer
SS Jed Lowrie, Emilio Bonifacio
3B Juan Francisco
2B Erick Aybar
OF Jacoby Ellsbury, Magglio Ordonez, Marlon Byrd, Roger Bernadina, Mike Trout, Michael Taylor, Wily Mo Pena

SP Edinson Volquez, Derek Holland, Charlie Morton, Clay Buchholz, Julio Teheran
SP Brandon Webb
RP Mike Dunn, Nick Masset, Alfredo Aceves, Felix Dubront, Kris Medlen, Bill Bray

MILB Billy Hamilton, Kolbrin Vitek, Jiovanni Mier, Bryce Harper, Tyler Skaggs
MILB Ryan Westmoreland,  Chris Archer, Ethan Martin,  Reymond Fuentes
MILB Anthony Ranaudo, Jake Odorizzi, Jacob Turner

#9 FouLLine

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostN.O. Boston 33, on 22 November 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

I agree but to say hes more polished could be a bit of a stretch, Sano has AA at bats and Bryant does not.

Dominating the AFL is a bit more impressive than just ABs in Double A.  Especially considering this was Bryant's first year as a pro.  A majority of players who get drafted barely play (if play at all) the year they get drafted let alone dominate The AFL (and every other level they were at).

The AFL is made up of The All-Stars from basically Advanced A and Double A.  All playing at the end of the season to where generally the players who have improved the most shine.

#10 N.O. Boston 33

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 02:20 PM

I like the guy a lot but AFL MVP winners don't exactly have a great track record of success recently.  I think he will be a really good player, but lets see some sustained success against more advanced competition before we crown him the top prospect is all.
Stifler 18 Team Dynasty League

C Jarrod Saltalamacchia
1B Kendrys, Eric Hosmer
SS Jed Lowrie, Emilio Bonifacio
3B Juan Francisco
2B Erick Aybar
OF Jacoby Ellsbury, Magglio Ordonez, Marlon Byrd, Roger Bernadina, Mike Trout, Michael Taylor, Wily Mo Pena

SP Edinson Volquez, Derek Holland, Charlie Morton, Clay Buchholz, Julio Teheran
SP Brandon Webb
RP Mike Dunn, Nick Masset, Alfredo Aceves, Felix Dubront, Kris Medlen, Bill Bray

MILB Billy Hamilton, Kolbrin Vitek, Jiovanni Mier, Bryce Harper, Tyler Skaggs
MILB Ryan Westmoreland,  Chris Archer, Ethan Martin,  Reymond Fuentes
MILB Anthony Ranaudo, Jake Odorizzi, Jacob Turner

#11 archibjd

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:31 AM

Upside

Sano>Taveras>Bryant

Floor

Taveras>Sano>Bryant

I'm not impressed with Bryant's stance or swing. He doesn't look nearly as athletic or powerful as Sano.

#12 MNapoli

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 08:11 AM

View PostFouLLine, on 22 November 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

As much power as Sano has I couldn't say Bryant has any less.

Uh yes, you absolutely could.  Sano has pure 80 power.  Let's not diminish how rare that is.

#13 FouLLine

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostN.O. Boston 33, on 23 November 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

I like the guy a lot but AFL MVP winners don't exactly have a great track record of success recently.  I think he will be a really good player, but lets see some sustained success against more advanced competition before we crown him the top prospect is all.

That wouldn't be a fair sample to gauge an individual's chances of success.

Honestly it would be a far larger sample to say.  Players who play in the AFL have had a good success rate in the MLB compared to all of the players throughout the minors.

Now with that logic, what makes you think the player who was the best of the AFL players is less likely to succeed?  Couple this with the fact that this was Kris Bryant's first year in professional baseball and it's even more impressive.

#14 FouLLine

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

View Postarchibjd, on 24 November 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

Upside

Sano>Taveras>Bryant

Floor

Taveras>Sano>Bryant

I agree Sano has more upside than Taveras whereas Sano has more upside.  I have actually said exactly that in the past on these forums.

But honestly Kris Bryant looks the best hitter of them all.  I am pretty damn certain Kris Bryant will be the clear #1 overall prospect come June, regardless of what BA, BP, or any other prospect publication says about it.  The numbers are there.

View Postarchibjd, on 24 November 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

I'm not impressed with Bryant's stance or swing. He doesn't look nearly as athletic or powerful as Sano.

Not impressed with his stance?  Could you please elaborate?

Now not being impressed with his swing?  I don't understand that at all.  He's got a damn good stroke.  Go watch a slow motion video of it.

#15 FouLLine

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 01:07 PM

View PostMNapoli, on 24 November 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

View PostFouLLine, on 22 November 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

As much power as Sano has I couldn't say Bryant has any less.

Uh yes, you absolutely could.  Sano has pure 80 power.  Let's not diminish how rare that is.

Honestly Bryant may have more power than Sano.  Yes Sano could be rated at 80 power.  But there's 3 other guys in the minors right now who I feel also could be.  Two are Cubs.  Bryant, Baez, and Gallo.  All 4 could become 40 HR hitters in the majors.  In terms of pure power, they are all very close.  Yes very close.  Extremely close, honestly Gallo tops the list.

The difference between Gallo's power and Sano's power I believe is greater (in favor of Gallo) than Sano's and Bryant's compared power.

So sure it's rare, but it's not impossible to think that all 4 of these guys are on par in the power department.

There is no reason to doubt Kris Bryant's power.  Just look at any good power hitter in the majors who came out of college.

Goldschmidt, Braun, Tulo, Posey, Pedor Alvarez the list goes on.... Did any of them hit a HR in half their games on average?  No none of them came close too it.

Still not impressed?  Go research the difference in bats that they were using.  I'll give you a hint Bryant did it with a BBCOR bat.

#16 MNapoli

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

I'm not going to waste my time comparing HR rates or ISOs between guys who decimated the minors and guys who have a handful of games to their name.,  Too small of a sample size.  Not to mention he's a year and a half older than Sano and was doing it at a lower level.  He's a great hitter, but he does not have the pure, natural power of a guy like Sano.  Or Gallo, but right now he's far too raw and unpolished to compare to the other guys.

#17 archibjd

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:45 AM

View PostFouLLine, on 25 November 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Not impressed with his stance?  Could you please elaborate?

Now not being impressed with his swing?  I don't understand that at all.  He's got a damn good stroke.  Go watch a slow motion video of it.

I'm just a casual fan but the width of his stance is way too wide (his legs are set up too far apart), his swing is too long, and he doesn't look like he is generating a lot of force with his hips. Take a look at Sano and his swing is more compact and balanced with more power been generated from his legs and rotating around his core.

Bryant's swing is ugly. I understand you are a fan but does his swing really look athletic and powerful? It seems to me Bryant is getting his power from the length of his swing which is a bad way to do it in the bigs unless the player has amazing bat speed and even then it is a red flag. You are right on the other Cub that you like Baez but not Bryant.

With an ugly walk rate from the minimal stats I have seen and a ugly swing it is way better to go Sano in my rank amateur opinion.

What is there really to like about Bryant past his brute force power? I admit I don't know a lot about him past the hype I have been reading.

Edited by archibjd, 26 November 2013 - 07:47 AM.


#18 Slatykamora

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postarchibjd, on 26 November 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

View PostFouLLine, on 25 November 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Not impressed with his stance?  Could you please elaborate?

Now not being impressed with his swing?  I don't understand that at all.  He's got a damn good stroke.  Go watch a slow motion video of it.

I'm just a casual fan but the width of his stance is way too wide (his legs are set up too far apart), his swing is too long, and he doesn't look like he is generating a lot of force with his hips. Take a look at Sano and his swing is more compact and balanced with more power been generated from his legs and rotating around his core.

Bryant's swing is ugly. I understand you are a fan but does his swing really look athletic and powerful? It seems to me Bryant is getting his power from the length of his swing which is a bad way to do it in the bigs unless the player has amazing bat speed and even then it is a red flag. You are right on the other Cub that you like Baez but not Bryant.

With an ugly walk rate from the minimal stats I have seen and a ugly swing it is way better to go Sano in my rank amateur opinion.

What is there really to like about Bryant past his brute force power? I admit I don't know a lot about him past the hype I have been reading.
The wider stance to improve his balance actually, and simplified his swing. He didn't used to have such a wide stance.. It cut down his K-rates.

As of today. Bryant has 2 inches and about 20-30 pounds on Sano. He has the "look" of a true slugger. For whatever that is worth... So he has more Mass, Muscle, and Leverage to work with to generate power, to make up for whatever difference they have in batting stance.

But that is right now. Sano is 2 years younger. Sano should grow into his frame, build more muscle and mass. He has more bat speed than Bryant. So he has more power upside... However, he also as noted length to his swing.

Sano had a 68% Contact rate. Bryant had 72%... But that is at different levels.

Bryant isn't known as a hacker. He does illustrate patience, and being selective to pitches he wants to hit... Though Sano has shown to be better at getting walks, thus far.

Bryant isn't a pull hitter either. He can spray his power to all fields. Which could help in the BABIP department.

Still, Sano>>>Bryant.

#19 archibjd

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:46 AM

Re: Sano >>>Bryant

I thought you liked Bryant better than Sano?

What do you like about Bryant past his brute force power?

Do you think he will be able to catch up to MLB heat with that long swing? Do you like his swing? I just think he is slow to the ball and that is why he is spraying right now.

From the stats he doesn't seem that selective.

Edited by archibjd, 27 November 2013 - 05:47 AM.


#20 FouLLine

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 12:05 PM

Dont know what math is being used to figure the age difference between Sano and Bryant.  But if Sano was born in America he would have been one grade younger than Bryant at the absolute most (giving his birth record the benefit of the doubt).  So no it's not a year and a half and it's certainly not 2 years.  A year and 4 months, but nonetheless one grade in terms of "age level".

Secondly, notice how players drafted out of college (top prospects) generally make it the bigs about 2 years later in their life than guys drafted when 17/18 years old.

So realistically age at between these two guys is honestly a non factor to me, if not in favor of Bryant.

Odds would be that Sano should get to the bigs before Bryant, but I have a strong suspicion that Bryant will beat Sano to the bigs and be more effective to start.




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