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Neil Ramirez 2014 OutlookFilthy relief peripherals so far; potential closer upside


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#1 ygung

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:55 AM

Couldn't find a thread for the guy, so figured I'd start the conversation.

Currently has one of the best relief k/9s in the game.  Main detractors here seem to be potential to have a walk problem, and lack of save opps considering the team...Regardless, with Rondon dealing with elbow soreness Ramirez should be garnering some attention for real now.

Edited by ygung, 14 June 2014 - 10:56 AM.


#2 Milk Me

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:40 PM

I like him a lot moving forward as a piece to the back-end of their pen, whether that's the 8th or the 9th or even the 7th. As bad as the Cubs are, w/ Schlitter, Strop (since activation, anyway- he really has pitched better despite his known flaws still there), and Ramirez, in addition to Rondon (elbow pending...), their back-end is pretty nice. Arodys Vizcaino was always considered the CL of the future, but I question if Ramirez couldn't sneak into that discussion; his stuff is great, and he generally is less sloppy than last night's game.

He hadn't expected to pitch the 9th from what I read and many were shocked not to see Rondon, not knowing why until the news broke of his elbow. I really wouldn't be shocked if there's something to that, so I think Ramirez is definitely worth a pick-up if someone needs saves- bad team or not ......his ratios alone won't hurt, but only help you. And if he were to take over for Rondon you'd have a WW CL with great ratios.

He's behind Ronon in the pecking order FWIW so assume what you want, but an elbow injury or elbow soreness is never good. However I'm curious to see if Strop doesn't get the shot if there is/was one today (dunno where the game stands as of now- saw Cubs were down early I think). Strop, if he pitches good,  could run away with the gig keeping Ramirez in the 8th (if Rondon misses time). Both are worth eying in a season where Chad Qualls has been an undervalued CL....
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#3 ygung

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:22 PM

Its def a tight race and strop will continue to lurk as an option as you stated.  I will say when Rondon went on paternity leave Renteria stated that Neil Ramirez was going to be the guy in his place while he was gone.  correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Strop came back during Rondon's paternity leave and many were expecting Strop would be deemed the interim closer but he wasn't.  That said, it seems rare that a guy gets thrown directly into the fire when they are fresh off the DL in terms of closers so one could argue that as a reason it wasn't Strop.

Yeah the role is still Rondon's currently, but considering Rondon really doesn't have any save experience beyond this year, and the "what have you done for me lately" mentality that seemingly comes with the closer role, Rondon better get back and have some good outings quickly before Ramirez gets a few more chances to display dominance.

Edited by ygung, 14 June 2014 - 09:23 PM.


#4 taobball

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:30 PM

Ramirez is dominate. He has starter stuff and a repertoire of pitches that is rare for a reliever. I think his medicals are the reason he is being relegated to the bullpen, as I see the Cubs trying to make him a 75-85 IP a year guy as opposed to 200 IP. If he continues to show what he has thus far, he could be the kind of dominate reliever that is valuable in deep leagues despite the lack of saves.
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#5 Milk Me

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:10 AM

Well, FWIW, it is assumed Rondon's elbow is just fine (as long as he doesn't come out tomorrow, say, should he get in the game- SV chance or not- and just stink or hurt something via means of aggravation...). He threw off of flat ground today as stated, and had no issues or setbacks. Word is he could pitch as soon as tomorrow (today in some timezones). Sunday.

So those who want to hold Neil for his ratios- I truly can't blame you. He is a bit of a hidden gem in the pen there. And the fact that Arodys has still recently been talked about as a guy who can regularly touch 99mph and sometimes triple digits (or he used to be able to- think he has been able to a few times- gun accuracy aside..) with a killer curve to go with the 1-2 punch, what most CL need (a dominant FB/cutter/splitter w/ velo. and a solid off-speed pitch... the best CL in history are more or less 1-pitch pitchers for reasons: they pitches were that much better than their contemporaries' versions, but I digress. I think that Arodys, if called up in Sept, will scalp some SV chances from whoever is running w/ the job or maybe they'll turn it into a full all-out committee, but that's a long ways off to speculate to be honest. I am still wondering why Arodys' name isn't being mentioned more in general after the preseason hype (or at least what there was in Chicago and its papers).

Not trying to float rumors out of my a** because that's what this is, but it's also plausible, at the very least.... Rondon is young and was a former Rule5 pick from the Indians, so the Cubs obviously saw and liked something there all along. That being said, I still think even Ramirez has better stuff and that's easy to see, and the jury is still out on Arodys who is very young anyway and recovering still from TJ (two surgeries I think at that- this being his 2nd obviously, correct me there if I'm wrong). He could be a Guzman-type and never amount to much despite the potential, who knows. But with recent news of the Cubs getting more aggressive in shopping Shark and Hammel (those were the names dropped in local papers), it's always possible a proven MR like Rondon who doesn't really profile as a longterm CL could be dealt while his value is higher than it will likely ever be in his career to get that extra prospect or big name or maybe just help a deal move along.

tl;dr? Ramirez is a nice stash even if he doesn't close at all this year, but I think there's at least a 25% chance that Rondon is either dealt while his value is high and he is healthy (having a history of elbow problems and all) and dominating like he is (while cost controlled). He'd be a wonderful "throw-in" if you get what I mean. There's also the possibility his elbow isn't as sound as  they/he think(s) and if he goes down, Ramirez would definitely be next in line. I like Brian Schlittler (went to my HS, though not when I was still there-- I think he knew some people I know though) and Strop has been better, but the fact is B.S.'s K/9 is terrible and Strop's B/9 is probably worse, even if better since returning from his injury...

I think if anything is to happen to Rondon it's Ramirez's job-- even if not for the future and beyond. I don't know if he's a 200IP guy, but what was mentioned above- the idea of him being a guy who could eat something like 70-85 innings in a season with the ability to strike batters out like he can, with his control.... He would be like a Dellin Betances, and those types of MR are becoming extremely popular in baseball and helpful in fantasy. I like the guy-- and he may have been considered the 4th piece in that Garza deal....damn.
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#6 ygung

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

^^^nice analysis man...can't say I was hip to Arodys, I feel like I may have heard his name being thrown around but never any in-depth talk about him.  In limited innings thus far he's been solid at AA (via fangraphs); a name that is worthy of filing away since there is an outside shot he can have an affect on the closer carousel in the Chi.

Epstein def seems to be about making trades and all the stuff you said makes sense...I do liken Ramirez to Betances in fantasy with the only difference really being the fact Betances profiles as more of a vulture win guy as he often pitches more than one inning and can enter close games behind as well as tie games.  It would be nice if they could feed Ramirez more innings if he's not going to get the closer role.

#7 dinhead

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:01 PM

Milk me write up are always very impressive and I picked up Ramirez after watching him yesterday and today. Nasty

#8 grandchamp

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:14 PM

So rondon is back.... Any effect on Ramirez?? Rotoworld says he should be owned everywhere.  Rondon should get his closer role back no?

#9 ygung

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:25 PM

I'm bracing for Renteria to say something along the lines of "We're going to try Rondon in some low leverage situations just to make sure everything is right", and if he does it might be a wrap for Rondon if Ramirez doesn't falter...I think Renteria will have a problem changing "what is working", especially since Rondon doesn't have a long history of closing.  They could also pull the whole injury history card on Rondon and say we need to monitor his innings closely...All speculation tho

#10 grandchamp

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:27 PM

I guess the cubs suck anyway. I just like what I see with neil

#11 PPolanco

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:04 PM

View Postgrandchamp, on 15 June 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

So rondon is back.... Any effect on Ramirez?? Rotoworld says he should be owned everywhere.  Rondon should get his closer role back no?

I grabbed him as soon as the elbow news came out on Rondon but now that Ramirez has been given the Rotoworld endorsement I fully expect him to destroy my ratios during his next appearance and to never earn another save opp..

In all seriousness though, yes an easy grab if he's still out there until we see Rondon actually pitch during a live game. They misled us and said he'd be available today and now are backtracking and saying he just needs 1 more day, however he hasn't actually thrown off of a mound yet! He only threw on flat ground to test it out and we may not have even received honest news about how it went. Elbows are scary. I don't care how "minor" they make it seem.
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#12 Milk Me

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

He looked fine and I think after all the Cubs haven done to ensure he joined their org., from rule 5 holding him when he was just terrible at times- even if I think he was DL-stashed that yr too- not to mention one TJ at least and I think possible complications at some point after the fact (his TJ being in 2010 when he was a member of the Indians)...... I think any time this guy's elbow is tender, they will exercise caution. Earlier this year in a game vs the Yanks his velocity was down- WAY down. People were freaked. I called dead arm and he was fine.

I think this was something similar. Which is reason to own Neil Ramirez in deep leagues in hopes of netting saves with nice ratios he provides (or has been and has potential to continue to), just because I don't know if Rondon is going to be road as hard for the rest of the season and I could see this happening more than one more time, or even a big injury springing just basing it off of the guy's history with elbow injuries.... it's not like I would be shocked.

Ramirez isn't a bad  grab anyway.. But I totally know what you mean of the RW endorsement.... I feel the same way sometimes even if I had planned on making the move-- it's like a death kiss or something, I dunno. Like the SI curse. etc.
Sometimes I'll spend 6 hours in one day watching Fraiser. (Subtract the 6 or 7+ minutes per commercials with dying babies and dogs to sponsor through mail that airs after- and in between episodes- and it's more like 5 hours, but I watch Cheers sometimes too.)  I also am a Cubs fan of 25+ years. Needless to say, I'm (obviously) terminally (and mentally?) ill. :-)

My team will be here again soon. I've learned how to use a Twiatter account, and even "follow" Matt Vasgersian now! If I could really follow him, I'd catch him in COL at a Rox game and smoke with that mofo over some funnel cake.

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#13 avswsop91

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:32 PM

Is he the closer? Numbers looks good.

Edited by The Harsh, 20 June 2014 - 06:09 PM.
Removed BC content.

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#14 taobball

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:35 AM

If you're picking him up you're most likely picking him up for the Ratio/K help in a deeper league. Being a Cub really doesn't effect that.

Edited by The Harsh, 20 June 2014 - 06:09 PM.
Don't answer BC questions, please.

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C: Yan Gomes / 1B: Eric Hosmer / 2B: Jedd Gyorko / 3B: Martin Prado / SS: Tulo Tulowitski
OF: Adam Jones / OF: Jay Bruce / OF: Wil Myers / UT (1): Christian Yelich, George Springer, CJ Cron
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SP: Adam Wainwright, Sonny Gray, Brandon Beachy, Corey Kluber, Drew Smyly, Yordano Ventura, Martin Perez
RP: Huston Street, Chad Quallis, Pedro Strop
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#15 ygung

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:00 PM

for anyone still holding out hope, it's just about confirmed ramirez isn't the closer now.  Looks like he pitched the 7th today with Strop pitching the 8th.  Not to mention, about two games ago the Cubs warmed Neil up in the 7th just incase Arrieta ran into trouble, but he didn't pitch because Arrieta made it through the 7th and the cubs went on to score a run in the 8th making it a 4 run game.  As Taobball said he's basically a ratios/k guy at this point until some injuries occur.

#16 briandempsey21

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:47 PM

Pickup Ramirez if hes not owned asap Rondon got blasted tonight to the tune of 5 earned runs including loading the bases and giving up a grand salami in the 9th..he couldnt get out of the inning hasnt had a few good outings in a row for a while and Ramirez has been dominant. He will be the closer by the end of the week book it!
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#17 foeplay

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:47 PM

I hope you are right because i am tired of carrying both of those bums.

#18 Golden Spikes

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:53 AM

just dropped him, not going to waste a reclaim on a Cubs closer, might grab if he falls thru.

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#19 IlliniGuy76

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

Optioned this morning.

My GUESS is that they are going to try to work him back to a starter in the minors.
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#20 ygung

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:12 PM

Say it ain't so...If you're guess is right, I don't think the idea of him starting is too bad, but he's expendable now in most leagues.




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