Reportedly, the Yanks have offered CC a $150 million, 6 year deal.
Why not just make an even $200 million to make sure he goes there?
So much for developing pitchers from within!

CC should pull an A-Rod, reject the "insulting" deal, then come crawling back on his hands and knees to accept $180MM over 7 years.

I think they still plan to have Joba and Hughes in the rotation next year.

Additionally: From mlbtraderumors.com "If the Yankees are successful in signing Sabathia, they hope to add A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe next.". They should go after Sheets and Dempster while they are at.

It seems as they have lost complete faith in Hughes and Kennedy.

I think Hughes will be in the rotation next year

I understand losing faith in Kennedy because he is nothing special but I highly doubt they have given up on Hughes already.

Tough to say they lost faith. When there are pitchers available with proven quality... why not go after them? Hughes isn't going anywhere soon

What would the rotation be if they got CC and Burnett/Lowe?

CC, Wang, AJ/Lowe, Joba, Hughes? Haha, sick.

I forgot what Pettite is up to these days.

Look, I'm not hating on the Yankees, they just seem to be so knee-jerk to everything. I could've sworn going into this last season that the new philosophy was to develop talent rather than buy it all. The Yanks of late 90's and early 2000's where a solid hybrid of home-grown talent and free-agents. They would do well to go back to that balance.

I suppose so. I guess the only major needs they have are SP and 1b. How is their bullpen aside from Mo?

I don't think its the Yankees going away from developing pitchers, but they also need an ace pitcher. They will most likely lose a 20 game winner from their rotation this year, and Wang is an injury concern. I see no problem adding CC, as any team would be happy to have him.

The money? Yeah, it's a lot, but they got money from the new stadium and all, so why not spend it.

A rotation of CC, Wang, Burnett, Joba, Hughes/Pettite, is a lot better than Wang, Joba, Burnett, Hughes, Kennedy/Pettite

I do think the money is high and the years might be one year too many, but I obviously don't have a problem with the move.

The bullpen is actually pretty good, and they have some prospects that should be good RPs coming up soon as well. I could see them moving Jose Veras, Edwar Ramirez, and/or Brian Burney this offseason to open up some spots.

Thanks KingMaker...I don't know much about bullpens outside of the AL Central.

there is a big difference between shelling out prospects to acquire a pitcher and spend big money on him vs. just spending big money on him

Wang, Joba and Hughes are all home-grown talent...that's 3/5 starters, more than a ton of other teams can say

Joba and Hughes need to show it over a full year at least though. For Hughes, well hell, I'll just take seeing anything out of him. Good time to buy low on the guy in dynasty formats though.

Developing pitchers haven't been the problem, it's been position players. Regardless, they still haven't learned their lesson.

I didn't realize Wang was homegrown.

That's a good point. Still, that money could used toward the farm system (better coaches, trainers, facilities), and scouting.
I guess it's the Yanks though, they have the ability to spend at will. Even if CC never reaches his Cy Young ability again, the investment would still be a good one for them. Heck, even if his arm flies off mid-delivery in 2010, they probably wouldn't be hurt by the contract. Bleh.

Time for a salary cap

Sort of. He was brough in overseas when he was 25 and went straight to AAA. He only made 6 appearances for 34 IP in AAA and then went to the big club that year and threw 116 IP with a 4.02 ERA.

Does China do the same thing as Japan with the secret bidding on players?
I wonder what Chin-Ming cost the Yankees. Probably a song.

CMW was actually brought over from Taiwan, and no they are not posted up for bid to negotiation rights. He was signed as an amateur FA.

I dunno I think this developing from within is just overrated. I think it more about signing the right players.

Most of the pitchers the Yankees have signed over the last 10 years were all the wrong ones, or just didn't work out.

Pavano and RJ were the only right pitchers they brought in imo and Pavano got hurt, and RJ just wasn't as good as I was expecting.

Many times they missed out on the top FA or there wasn't a top tier FA, so they went after what was left.

We talking about the Kevin Brown(Tho I think at the time he wasn't a bad pitcher he just got hurt) Jeff Weaver, Loazia, Vazequz, Wright, Igawa. Those types. There were mostly signed after 1 big year in a contract year(shocker)

CC is a proven pitcher who done it for years.

The difference from going out with a open check book for the best and a open checkbook for the best on the market. CC is a top 5 pitcher in the MLB, not just the top FA pitcher on the market.

this is true for position players as well. Tho I would say the Yankees did do a better job for getting the better talents with Bats.

Oh right, Taiwan. Thanks Mustache!

Yankees spend money on there farm system, coaches, trainers scouting and all. The problem they have is they don't have high draft picks. They don't have the high draft picks from A) winning alot of games and B)signing type A FA to often.

You make good points Denbo. The Yanks are actually trying to acquire a proven pitcher in the prime of his career. If he stays healthy, he will be a great addition. I supposed I should retract my initial post, but $25M/year for 6 years still seems a little nutty

Top FA money is nutty. But at least this is a top end pitcher, not Zito. remember what Zito got 3 years ago for being the best pitcher of the FA class? 7 years 126 I think it was, which is what 18 a year? But this was Zito coming off a few down years.

Tho I think Santana only got 138 for 6 years so 150 for CC does seem a bit overboard. I'm not sure he should get more then Santana, but I guess it not big of a difference. 23M vs 25M tho I feel Santana is a much better pitcher.

Again at least we going for a top of the line pitcher an Ace and a legit top 5 MLB starter. not Zito.

"Yanks getting desperate"? are you kidding me? how is that offer desperate? CC is a stud and deserve the same, if not more, amount of money that Johan has..."desperate" is pretty ignorant

Wasn't one of the Steinbrenners recently quoted that it was a mistake to pass on Santana?

CC HAS to take that money, which sucks for his fantasy value. His NL numbers were scary good.

Am I the only one who thinks CC's arm is gonna fall off? I just have a bad feeling if he goes to the Yanks. Yeah, Halladay and Webb have a comparable number of innings pitched the last 3 seasons, but they are kinda more in shape than the hefty lefty.

I take issue with the heading under the topic calling the Yankees desperate. Sabathia was easily going to command $140+ milion, so why not if you're the Yankees. Make him an offer that most teams aren't going to be able to make. Desperate-no. Strategic- yes.

I think it is safe to say, Sabathias agent already has an offer from the Yankees in his hand.

Right, I retracted my opening post, so I will retract the sub-headline too.

If he was gonna command 140+ and if another team was willing to offer 140+ I could see that same team offering 150+ as well.

I honestly think the Yankees offer was alot larger then what he might of gotten from other teams. I'm thinking other teams might of been offering 150 for 7 years or 128 for 6 years range

Yeah, sorry about the use of the word desperate, I do think that they are overpaying though, but quite a bit. I could see $25mil/year for a short contract, but not 6 years.

Sabathia is only 28 years old so a 6 year deal still only takes him to 34. What he did in a Milwaukee uniform means he deserves Santana money. What makes him more valuable than Santana is that he costs nothing as far as prospects go. Mets had to give up pieces of the future to get Santana whereas the Yankees would have to give nothing. For that reason alone, Sabathia could command more dollars than Santana.

The Yankees need an ace. Their scouting, coaching, etc, are fully stocked with all the resources they could ever need. Signing CC isn't going to change that. Hell, they could sign CC, Burnett, Teixeira and still have a lower payroll than last year. In addition, let's not forget the fact they are moving into a new state of the art facility. If you thought the Yankees money making machine was good before (in other words, still turning a profit even with a payroll north of $200 million plus luxury taxes) just think how much more revenue the new ballpark will generate. If the Yankees don't win a WS soon, you could see Hank approve a payroll of $300 million and the Yankees would STILL turn a profit.

That part might be up for debate. With the slowing economy sports hasn't taken a hit just yet, but it may not be that far off. While I expect the Yankees to be profitble for the next year or two. If wall street doesn't clean up it mess alot of these season tickets may not be there. Corporations may no longer buy out the luxury box suites if cuts needs to be made. The 75 dollar upper deck seats may not sell.

Its a fear if I was running the payroll of a baseball team that I would be worried about. Esp in this day and age where baseball contracts can't just be cut.

the short term I wouldn't be worried about the Yankees spending habits, but it may start to hit them once they see sales slowing down, which could happen as early as this year.

I think it would nice to see a salary cap. Then some of the profits could be re-invested in the team/stadium/reducing ticket prices. Aren't yanks tickets super-expensive for the new stadium? I might be wrong.

Good points though Zara, I think the Yanks will make money no matter what. The can afford to pay above premium when need be, or take bigger risks than other teams can.

Tickets alone in the new stadium are double from across the street. They sold out nearly every game in the old stadium so they can simply fill half the seats in the new one, they'll make the same money on tickets. Concessions will cost more. Hell, there's going to be a Hard Rock Cafe in the stadium. The dollars the stadium will generate is going to be gigantic. One of the last things to get hit in a poor economy is sports since it's people's escape from reality. Economics are cyclical and the market will go up again and the Yankees will simply rake in the cash.

Buster Olney is reporting the Yanks are offering CC 6 years/$142 mil. and are prepared to offer big money to AJ Burnett and Derek Lowe as well in an attempt to sign any combo of the 3 or all 3 if they all accept the Yanks offers.

I beg the Yankees not to sign AJ. unless he taking low money. AJ is not that good of a pitcher, he a good strikeout guy and I'll agree there are days he looks unhittable but 10 years and a ERA of like 3.9 makes me believe he just a slightly above average pitcher.

And from the looks of it he wants close to number #1 starter money.

It worth noting that the Yankees are having trouble selling the remainder of their luxury boxes for the new ballpark BECAUSE of the lousy economy. I dont know how it necessarily works (if they can sell them on a game-by-game basis rather than as a package or whatever), but I think the effects of the economy are already starting to trickle down. I know myself personally am not rebuying my partial ticket plan, simply because I can't afford to go to 13 games next season.

That said, the Yankees still have more money than they know what to do with. Personally I hope as a fan, that the acquisition of Swisher doesn't mean theyre out of the running for Tex. Their biggest problem last year was lack of OFFENSE, NOT PITCHING. Its a foregone conclusion that at worst they will get one of CC, Burnett, Lowe, but they need to get another bat in the middle of the lineup, especially if they are planning on letting Abreu walk (which appears to at least be a possibility)

Now please take note that I say this with a touch of sarcasm and irony.... but the Yankees have sold out all luxury boxes except for their cheapest ones which are going for $600k per season. All of the $650k to 850k boxes have already been sold. So, I wouldn't say they're "having trouble" selling them... instead, they simply haven't sold out of them yet. I understand the Mets have already sold theirs out, but at a max ceiling price of $550k ish.

Money will never be an issue for the Yankees... between the new stadium and it's sponsors, the luxury boxes, the YES network etc etc... they'll always have plenty of money at their disposal. Let's play a numbers game for argument's sake:
The Yankees average 40,000 per game (not out of the question considering the new stadium etc)
The Yankees average ticket price is $75/game (considering how expensive some of the field level seats are, I think this is reasonable)
That translates into $3 million in ticket sales per game, over the 81 home games, that's $243 million.....
That doesn't take into account concessions, licensing etc.... Granted they have overhead, but you see where I'm going.
So a $200 million payroll is really not a barrier for them whatsoever.... and i'm sure they will spend it if the proper opportunity(s) arrise in the offseason.

But there are other costs to running the team besides just Payroll. The full effects of the economy falling apart hasn't hit NY yet and hasn't hit sports yet. Most of the big time problems started to hit mid Sept. Not saying there weren't problems before but pretty much mid Sept is when large companies started to fail, and the govt started to get more in the middle of the issues.

I fully expect the first 2 years of Yankee stadium to be sold out nearly every game because it a new stadium and the Yankees can still live off the glory years.

And we don't know maybe the economy can recover in a year or two, I'm no expert on how bad this can get or will get, or even is now. It just something that might become a factor down the line. If the average fan can no longer pay the $75 dollars a seat, if they stop selling out. If luxury boxes don't sellout.

Lets assume a company like AIG purchased 4 Luxary boxes for a 2 year lease which seems very reasonable. 2 years from now when it comes time to renew you think they are going to be able to if the economy doesn't recover? if not do you think there are plenty places lining up to get that luxury box? a year ago it would of been a no brainer that there would be company lining up for that chance, now it may be questionable.

Problems like these take years before it catches up.

This exemplifies what's wrong with baseball, and why there needs to be a salary cap. The Yankees offer would basically price other pitchers out of range for most clubs.

Rotoworld blurb:
Sources within the baseball industry believe CC Sabathia may be getting pressure from the Players Association to accept the record six-year, $140 million offer from the Yankees.
Presumably, having Sabathia ink that deal would result in monster contracts for other free agent pitchers. Even Brewers GM Doug Melvin said he thought the union could be putting the heat on CC, replying, "Yeah, probably," when probed about the possibility. Sabathia, a native of California, is believed to prefer his home state and the National League. Source: New York Daily News Nov. 16 - 9:10 am et

Before we generate a lot of discussion on this topic, I would probably point out that the reverse holds true as well - if we want to talk cap, we should be talking about *minimum* and *maximum* caps together. There are teams out there who are raking in the $ to an obscene amount. Many of them don't have the revenue-generating capacity of the Yankees, and thus are afraid to commit a large percentage of $ to their future because of that, but it's also true (and has been discussed ad nauseum in those other threads) that Steinbrenner et al. re-invest their profits back into the club, unlike some owners who use it as a cash cow.

And to be clear, I have a lot of respect for Cashman, but as an Expos fan first, then transplanted ex-Jays fan, and still rooting for the small-market team now in the Rays, I always pretty much root against the Yankees - but I can't necessarily paint everything as just their fault alone, and this is a good example.

The poor economy has already hit NY and it's already hit them hard. Layoffs at major banks have piled up and continue to do so. That all being said, tickets for Yankees Stadium are selling and they are selling fast. The people doing well are buying the premium seats and others are moving their seats around. I had a friend with seats 11 rows from third. They were $110 in 2007 and $220 in 2008. They wanted $325 per seat for 2009. Instead, he moved two sections down the left field line and is now 35 rows from the field and will pay $175 per ticket. There's actually less seats in the new stadium so they need less people to fill it. The also need less people to fill it to earn the same as last season since the average ticket price has skyrocketed. If there's one certainty in baseball, it's that the Yankees revenue stream is a monster. The only way the Yankees have an issue is if the current recession (yes, we're in a recession regardless of what politicians want to say) becomes a depression. With billions of dollars in relief to hit markets over the next 6 months, depression is unlikely. Therefore, Yankee cash cow is alive and well. And yes, we absolutely need a salary cap and a salary floor.

Yes it has started to hit, but hasn't fully hit. People who lost their jobs now are just starting to cut back. As more layoff comes to wall street(heck Citi just cut 53,000 earlier this week, not sure how many is wall street, but I can assume there a decent amount there)

It will take time before it hits the sports world. People don't pull out of season tickets this year, but when it time to renew next time around then they cut back. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I could see after the year when the stadium is no longer new, and some people have incomes cut in half for these wall street types that still have their jobs.

I live in NY and I work in finance. Trust me it's hit. The country wanted change. Elected a new President because they want change. The outgoing administration has pledged well over a TRILLION dollars to turn this around. If you're worried about Yankees tickets sales in 2010, then you're someone who just likes to worry. The only thing that will affect Yankee attendance numbers is the fact that the new stadium simply seats less people. I'd guarantee you the revenue in 2009 exceeds 2008 and then 2010 will only be larger.

Also don't forget that sports and entertainment (specifically, Yankees Entertainment and Sports) are always last to be hit during tough economic times because of their "escapist" value. I disagree with Zara that I think things in the city are actually going to get a whole let worse before they get better (I go to medical school here and the hospital just put out an email this morning letting us know they're enacting a spending freeze for the foreseeable future), but I agree that it always hits sports last (if it all). I mean, we don't typically think of the 30's as a "bad decade" for baseball. I'd like to see how much revenue dropped compared to the 20's - if anything, I'd say it increased.

That said, what's with RotoRaysFan saying he almost always roots against the Yanks? I thought he was the "pro-NYY" moderator on here?

I may root against them on the field, but I try not to let that separate my views on their trades, moves, or business decisions. I play FBB & FFB the same way, FWIW (as do most of the most successful FBB/FFB players, I imagine - went many seasons without drafting any Jays in the 90's and last 3 years - over-valued in my leagues). It might be since I was left team-less after the Expos left (and basically rooted for the Jays out of default, and the Canuck philosophy of rooting for a Canadian team if your team doesn't win), I've been more interested in rooting for my fantasy teams than any 1 team, so I tended to be unaffected by emotional ties. If I say anything for or against any organization, it's usually just as I see it from the business/fantasy perspective, trying to remain objective. Just because I have a ton of respect for Cashman & the recent philosophy they've adopted doesn't necessarily mean I'm pro-them - just like when I congratulated the Sox in winning the WS in 2007 and on *how they operate* (which gears them for long-term success), it didn't make me pro-Boston, either. Food for thought.

(Now, if I say anything against Al Davis, on the other hand....)