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rrich46

Wieters up sooner than expected?

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1-4 with an RBI double tonight. Hitting just .265 so far. I really don't think he'll get the call until he proves himself at AAA.

He's not in AAA to prove anything. He's there for three reasons, none of which are hitting performance:

1) MLB Service clock

2) Working with pitchers

3) Easing the pressure

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He's in the minors to prove to me that he has earned a roster spot on my team

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He's there because he's already broken every hitting record for catchers in the future, then make the earth spin backwards to go back in time, THEN went back to AAA....cause he was tired.

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He's not in AAA to prove anything. He's there for three reasons, none of which are hitting performance:

1) MLB Service clock

2) Working with pitchers

3) Easing the pressure

Call me wrong all you want. The O's aren't exactly going to compete this year. They just want Wieters to show he can hit at the AAA level this season. Once he does, he'll get the call. Plus the O's get an extra year of arbitration out of him if he's kept until June. Just saying.

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Call me wrong all you want. The O's aren't exactly going to compete this year. They just want Wieters to show he can hit at the AAA level this season. Once he does, he'll get the call. Plus the O's get an extra year of arbitration out of him if he's kept until June. Just saying.

No need to be defensive. I just don't think his time in AAA will be based upon whether he hits .280 or .320.

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No need to be defensive. I just don't think his time in AAA will be based upon whether he hits .280 or .320.

I think truthfully you guys likely agree. I'm with DB that Wieters has nothing more to prove as a minor league player. I'm with VC that the extra year of arbitration is HUGE for a team that's not contending this year and will definitely be contending when that year of arbitration comes up if all goes well. At the end of the day though it really doesn't matter how well he does I doubt it forces the O's hand.

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I disagree that the extra year of arbitration is HUGE. Even if they don't sign him to a contract and allow him to reach his FA year, it will be the savings of a like 5 million over 4-5 years. I think the chances of him even REACHING arbitration are slim. Alot of teams are signing thier players early and are essentially buying out thier arbitration years. By keeping him down until now they are delaying his FA year by a year. I think if healthy he will be up well before mid may.

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I disagree that the extra year of arbitration is HUGE. Even if they don't sign him to a contract and allow him to reach his FA year, it will be the savings of a like 5 million over 4-5 years. I think the chances of him even REACHING arbitration are slim. Alot of teams are signing thier players early and are essentially buying out thier arbitration years. By keeping him down until now they are delaying his FA year by a year. I think if healthy he will be up well before mid may.

The premise is sound, but Wieters isn't likely to be the same case as the other players who signed long-term deals, for 2 reasons:

1. He's a Boras client, the other players who signed team-friendly deals were not. As long as he's with Boras, the view is simple - you don't give away years of FA and/or arbitration. So, he's likely going all 6 years the hard way. So, what happens? That brings us to....

2. Let's project the argument about Super-2. He can make the minimum wage of 500K for Years 1 & 2. If he becomes a Super-2 candidate, and he is a top 5 C after 2010 (which I believe he will), he could very well eclipse the record of Super-2 arbitration, which is 10M, from Ryan Howard. Then, if he progresses, each year of arbitration is based on the salary *from the previous year*. Remember that Howard's next year became the highest salary - 18M.

So, let's look at it another way....

Super-2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1 & 2: 500k

Year 3: 8-10M

Year 4: 15M

Year 5: 20M+

Year 6: 20M+

Total: 66M

No Super 2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1-3: 500K

Year 4: 10M (remember, the most a player has won in their 1st year of arbitration is 10M)

Year 5: 15M

Year 6: 20M

Total = 46M

When you look at a player this special, the O's are using business projections - and the effect isn't 5M over the last 3-4 year, it explodes because it creates an extra year of full arbitration at the end, as opposed to have 3 full seasons where the player is at *minimum* salary.

So yeah, the effect financially is *huge*. One could also argue that the O's can try and create more leverage to get a long-term contract done by avoiding the super-2 status, since then Wieters has to wait until after 2011 to get any kind of a huge payday.

While I don't like it when contending teams sacrifice their short-term chances in the interests of money, the O's are doing the right thing here, since they don't have a realistic shot this year (their good start notwithstanding, they don't have the arms to keep this up, and they know it). And I'm a Wieters owner, so believe me it pains me to say it, but from a business perspective *and* from a baseball perspective, it makes entire sense to wait out the Super-2 plan, given how special Wieters is. It's because he's so special that the stakes become *even* that much higher financially-speaking.

P.S. He's already off the FA clock by a year, so if the O's wait until mid-to-late May, they can get Super-2 out of the way too. Given they've waited this long, can't see them veering off-course here.

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The premise is sound, but Wieters isn't likely to be the same case as the other players who signed long-term deals, for 2 reasons:

1. He's a Boras client, the other players who signed team-friendly deals were not. As long as he's with Boras, the view is simple - you don't give away years of FA and/or arbitration. So, he's likely going all 6 years the hard way. So, what happens? That brings us to....

2. Let's project the argument about Super-2. He can make the minimum wage of 500K for Years 1 & 2. If he becomes a Super-2 candidate, and he is a top 5 C after 2010 (which I believe he will), he could very well eclipse the record of Super-2 arbitration, which is 10M, from Ryan Howard. Then, if he progresses, each year of arbitration is based on the salary *from the previous year*. Remember that Howard's next year became the highest salary - 18M.

So, let's look at it another way....

Super-2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1 & 2: 500k

Year 3: 8-10M

Year 4: 15M

Year 5: 20M+

Year 6: 20M+

Total: 66M

No Super 2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1-3: 500K

Year 4: 10M (remember, the most a player has won in their 1st year of arbitration is 10M)

Year 5: 15M

Year 6: 20M

Total = 46M

When you look at a player this special, the O's are using business projections - and the effect isn't 5M over the last 3-4 year, it explodes because it creates an extra year of full arbitration at the end, as opposed to have 3 full seasons where the player is at *minimum* salary.

So yeah, the effect financially is *huge*. One could also argue that the O's can try and create more leverage to get a long-term contract done by avoiding the super-2 status, since then Wieters has to wait until after 2011 to get any kind of a huge payday.

While I don't like it when contending teams sacrifice their short-term chances in the interests of money, the O's are doing the right thing here, since they don't have a realistic shot this year (their good start notwithstanding, they don't have the arms to keep this up, and they know it). And I'm a Wieters owner, so believe me it pains me to say it, but from a business perspective *and* from a baseball perspective, it makes entire sense to wait out the Super-2 plan, given how special Wieters is. It's because he's so special that the stakes become *even* that much higher financially-speaking.

P.S. He's already off the FA clock by a year, so if the O's wait until mid-to-late May, they can get Super-2 out of the way too. Given they've waited this long, can't see them veering off-course here.

Being a Wieters's owner, I hate to admit it, but your analysis is dead on accurate.

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The premise is sound, but Wieters isn't likely to be the same case as the other players who signed long-term deals, for 2 reasons:

1. He's a Boras client, the other players who signed team-friendly deals were not. As long as he's with Boras, the view is simple - you don't give away years of FA and/or arbitration. So, he's likely going all 6 years the hard way. So, what happens? That brings us to....

2. Let's project the argument about Super-2. He can make the minimum wage of 500K for Years 1 & 2. If he becomes a Super-2 candidate, and he is a top 5 C after 2010 (which I believe he will), he could very well eclipse the record of Super-2 arbitration, which is 10M, from Ryan Howard. Then, if he progresses, each year of arbitration is based on the salary *from the previous year*. Remember that Howard's next year became the highest salary - 18M.

So, let's look at it another way....

Super-2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1 & 2: 500k

Year 3: 8-10M

Year 4: 15M

Year 5: 20M+

Year 6: 20M+

Total: 66M

No Super 2 with Wieters exploding

Year 1-3: 500K

Year 4: 10M (remember, the most a player has won in their 1st year of arbitration is 10M)

Year 5: 15M

Year 6: 20M

Total = 46M

When you look at a player this special, the O's are using business projections - and the effect isn't 5M over the last 3-4 year, it explodes because it creates an extra year of full arbitration at the end, as opposed to have 3 full seasons where the player is at *minimum* salary.

So yeah, the effect financially is *huge*. One could also argue that the O's can try and create more leverage to get a long-term contract done by avoiding the super-2 status, since then Wieters has to wait until after 2011 to get any kind of a huge payday.

While I don't like it when contending teams sacrifice their short-term chances in the interests of money, the O's are doing the right thing here, since they don't have a realistic shot this year (their good start notwithstanding, they don't have the arms to keep this up, and they know it). And I'm a Wieters owner, so believe me it pains me to say it, but from a business perspective *and* from a baseball perspective, it makes entire sense to wait out the Super-2 plan, given how special Wieters is. It's because he's so special that the stakes become *even* that much higher financially-speaking.

P.S. He's already off the FA clock by a year, so if the O's wait until mid-to-late May, they can get Super-2 out of the way too. Given they've waited this long, can't see them veering off-course here.

LMAO, you sure do love fantasy.

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LMAO, you sure do love fantasy.

That he does. B) RotoRaysfan, The Czar, and bogfella are some of my favorite posters here because of the analysis they provide. I also appreciate you for the Orioles updates. Wieters is a guy I'm watching like a hawk, and Reimold is someone I'm looking at making the big leagues maybe in July.

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That he does. B)RotoRaysfan, The Czar, and bogfella are some of my favorite posters here because of the analysis they provide. I also appreciate you for the Orioles updates. Wieters is a guy I'm watching like a hawk, and Reimold is someone I'm looking at making the big leagues maybe in July.

Hey Lans ... THANKS!

I gotta tell ya, being grouped with Czar and RRF is some serious praise!!! Those 2 guys have always have it together!

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Hey Lans ... THANKS!

I gotta tell ya, being grouped with Czar and RRF is some serious praise!!! Those 2 guys have always have it together!

When bogfella talks pitching, I've got to listen! B)

Back on topic... Soooooo..... when is Wieters getting the call??? I'm getting impatient! Argh.

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When bogfella talks pitching, I've got to listen! B)

Back on topic... Soooooo..... when is Wieters getting the call??? I'm getting impatient! Argh.

Ok, my pitching addiction is well documented BUT ...

I also have Lincecum, Soria, Wieters, N. Cruz, J. Upton, Snider (not to mention Strasburg and Aumont) on the same keeper league team. If I could just have them ALL when they hit their peaks!!!

Youth with ceiling is another less publicized weakness of mine LOL

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ok, now seriously on topic:

Manager Dave Trembley said on Wednesday that Gregg Zaun's struggles at the plate won't have an impact on when the Orioles decide to call up Matt Wieters from Triple-A.

"I don't think the call-up of Wieters or the time frame with Wieters has anything to do with what Zaun does or doesn't do," Trembley said. "Wieters is in his own category and basically on his own program there." Trembley isn't going to say it, but after eight weeks in the minors, Wieters is no longer a super-two player after 2011. In other words, even though Zaun is hitting just .111, fantasy owners shouldn't expect to see Wieters in the majors before June.

which is exactly what everyone on this forum has said for a couple weeks now

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ok, now seriously on topic:

Manager Dave Trembley said on Wednesday that Gregg Zaun's struggles at the plate won't have an impact on when the Orioles decide to call up Matt Wieters from Triple-A.

"I don't think the call-up of Wieters or the time frame with Wieters has anything to do with what Zaun does or doesn't do," Trembley said. "Wieters is in his own category and basically on his own program there." Trembley isn't going to say it, but after eight weeks in the minors, Wieters is no longer a super-two player after 2011. In other words, even though Zaun is hitting just .111, fantasy owners shouldn't expect to see Wieters in the majors before June.

which is exactly what everyone on this forum has said for a couple weeks now

only a matter of time until the MLBPA files a grievance on behalf of a player who is being stuck in the minors because of money......wieters has a very good case, especially given some of the comments from trembley and o's front office staff that have allluded to the fact wieters is being held back for service time and arbitration reasons

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LOL, only people playing fantasy baseball really care.

i bet o's fans care that management isn't putting the best product on the field

i bet wieters cares that he can't get a promtion even though he's more then ready for the majors

and i guarantee that boras cares that he's missing out on serious coin due to the o's stalling wieters for fiscal reasons!

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So at this point, it looks like I should move Weiters back to my very short 3 man bench and pick up another catcher? I traded Tek (my wiethes placeholder) for dempster last week and instead of paying a $10 transaction fee for another stop gap catcher, decided to wait and see.

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i bet o's fans care that management isn't putting the best product on the field

i bet wieters cares that he can't get a promtion even though he's more then ready for the majors

and i guarantee that boras cares that he's missing out on serious coin due to the o's stalling wieters for fiscal reasons!

It's looking like early June if the likely ETA if the Orioles continue to tread water at a few games below .500 - in other words, if things stay the same on both the major league front and with Wieters.

However, I really do think we could see him sooner if one of a few things happen. If Zaun or Moeller go down with an injury, I would have a very hard time believing (and as a paying fan, accepting) that Wieters wouldn't get the call. Wieters could also force the issue if he goes on a tear. Unfortunately, he's been struggling in AAA, and I've read first-hand reports from people that have watched him since college that he doesn't look very motivated right now. He might be frustrated with the way he's been handled, but it's not good if he's handling it with frustration instead of using it as motivation. It's also possible he is still affected by the hamstring injury that held him out for a few games, so perhaps the O's want to make sure he's healthy and comfortable before making a move. Finally, the Orioles could possibly make a move if they continue to lose and the bottom of the lineup continues to be a joke thanks in part to Zaun's ineptitude at the plate. It's unlikely, but within the realm of possibility. Orioles fans want to see this kid up now, and they're going to get the pitchforks if the Orioles continue to lose and the team holds him down to save money when we've flushed so much money in the past for terrible players on losing teams - Danys Baez being a prime current example.

If there's any creedence to the reports by Olney and other that his timetable has been accelerated, he could very well be up in early May sometime. Just depends on how a few things shake out.

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Ok, my pitching addiction is well documented BUT ...

I also have Lincecum, Soria, Wieters, N. Cruz, J. Upton, Snider (not to mention Strasburg and Aumont) on the same keeper league team. If I could just have them ALL when they hit their peaks!!!

Youth with ceiling is another less publicized weakness of mine LOL

Yea I am right with you on those keepers....I hope my guys can hit there peaks before I have to dump them

Bruce, Kemp, Laporta, Fowler, Hanson, Snider, Votto

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Does anyone know the exact date that guys like Matt Wieters can/will be called up so that enough time has passed for the O's to save a little money. I assume when that date hits, Wieters will be called up ASAP. Anyone have that date???

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It's been discussed before and the consensus was that literally no one knows due to it changing every year.

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