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11.20.12 - Brooklyn Nets @ Los Angeles Lakers Game Thread

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D'antoni is making his season debut.

Of course I'm gonna go with my team. The lakers will take it tonight.

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Kobe line of 40 points, 5 Reb, 5 Ast, 3 STL

Would be nice

And I need a good Joe Johnson game as well

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Completely agree. And I say this as an owner of Lopez.

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Completely agree. And I say this as an owner of Lopez.

Guess thats why we play the game, all we care about is fantasy stats at the end of the day :)

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Wallace was doing a nice job on Kobe, and all around with his 3 steals and 2 blocks. They take him out and Kobe immediately sticks a 26 footer and a 23 footer. Might want to re-evaluate your subs Avery...........

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never actually watched the Nets or Lopez play (they haven't been nationally televised so it's not entirely your fault) and draws his assumptions from a rebounding statistic ripped out of context and the ESPN narrative that Lopez is "soft," "terrible," etc. It's amazing how much people can glean about players they only rarely see on television. Then again, in the media age, truth is not determined by objectivity, but rather by the force of narrative and the consolidation of public opinion.

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never actually watched the Nets or Lopez play (they haven't been nationally televised so it's not entirely your fault) and draws his assumptions from a rebounding statistic ripped out of context and the ESPN narrative that Lopez is "soft," "terrible," etc. It's amazing how much people can glean about players they only rarely see on television. Then again, in the media age, truth is not determined by objectivity, but rather by the force of narrative and the consolidation of public opinion.

The guy said nothing about his rebounding or Lopez being soft at all. I've seen him play plenty and can say with certainty he forces some really awful shots and is very slow in his offensive moves and decision making. You disagree with that?

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never actually watched the Nets or Lopez play (they haven't been nationally televised so it's not entirely your fault) and draws his assumptions from a rebounding statistic ripped out of context and the ESPN narrative that Lopez is "soft," "terrible," etc. It's amazing how much people can glean about players they only rarely see on television. Then again, in the media age, truth is not determined by objectivity, but rather by the force of narrative and the consolidation of public opinion.

I actually watch the Nets play quite often. I have the league package, I also live in Seattle and have watched Brook play since he was at Stanford. He has good offensive skills in terms of finishing at the rim and hitting mid range jumpers. But outside of that his game has not evolved at all. He is slow at moving the ball out of double teams, he almost seems allergic to passing a lot of times, he is slow in rotations defensively. I will watch more of him to see if that opinion changes.

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I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I will. In real life Brook Lopez is one of the most atrocious all around players in the league. This guy is just death to ball movement. He is so slow, he has no instincts, he can't pass, he can't defend, he has slow offensive moves and just forces crap. Of course in fantasy he will do some nice things, but from a real life perspective I would not want this guy anywhere near my basketball team. This guy is terrible.

Spoken like someone who has never actually watched the Nets or Lopez play (they haven't been nationally televised so it's not entirely your fault) and draws his assumptions from a rebounding statistic ripped out of context and the ESPN narrative that Lopez is "soft," "terrible," etc. It's amazing how much people can glean about players they only rarely see on television. Then again, in the media age, truth is not determined by objectivity, but rather by the force of narrative and the consolidation of public opinion.

The guy said nothing about his rebounding or Lopez being soft at all. I've seen him play plenty and can say with certainty he forces some really awful shots and is very slow in his offensive moves and decision making. You disagree with that?

Ya, I never mentioned anything about his rebounding lol, not sure why he went on a rant about something I never even mentioned in my post.....

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The guy said nothing about his rebounding or Lopez being soft at all.

He didn't, but that rebounding statistic is responsible for the vast majority of Lopez's bad press and is at the center of the discourse that he is "soft" etc., which I felt worth mentioning. If he is parroting this nonsense, then I feel perfectly justified in explaining how some many like him come to repeat it.

I've seen him play plenty and can say with certainty he forces some really awful shots and is very slow in his offensive moves and decision making. You disagree with that?

Certainly, he forces some awful shots, but so do most players. The fact is, he is converting shots at a pretty reasonable rate this season and the Nets are perfectly content with him shooting all day when he can post up 1 v 1, not only because of his exceptional post moves and soft touch, but also because he is good at drawing fouls and converting at the free throw line.

And so what if he has slow offensive moves? That's more an aesthetic consideration than anything. Yes, he doesn't make it look pretty, but he can take a lot of shots and covert them at a good rate. As for his decision making? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by slow decision making, but one of his greatest weaknesses is the ability to pass out of double teams. In many respects he is offensive clone of Tim Duncan, save for his ability to pass and a lower basketball IQ (he really isn't bad at screening or pick and rolls though; and his off the ball movement is fast improving).

The greatest criticism of Lopez is that he is a bad pick and roll defender. Lopez would be under a lot less criticism if he played in the NBA a decade or two ago. He's actually a more than competent post defender and is a plus shot blocker - the problem is that legitimate offensive fives that post-up are a dying breed. Even then, while a below average pick and roll defender, those weaknesses are emphasized because he plays across from Humphries, who is somehow an even worse P & R defender, mainly because of his non-existant basketball IQ.

And the reason I made assumptions about how you draw conclusions Cmilne - and where you get your information from - is because you called Lopez "terrible". I appreciate that you were being hyperbolic, but you should like a dolt when you call an offensive player of that caliber terrible, even if he is a below average defender.

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You guys serious? Lopez single handedly brought them back into the game with like 5 buckets in a row. Yeah he is sloppy at times, and his defense isn't the greatest at times... but saying he's bad offensively is ludacris. He's a juggernaught on offense... hardly ever misses a bucket because it's all around the rim. He has a nack for finding the open space, and his teammates have been finding him (as evidenced tonight by his open dunks on Dwight and Gasol - 2 of the greatest big men). He has a great shot for a big man as well, even though he hardly uses it because he's always around the rim. He gets to the line about 6 times a game because of this. He LOOKS slow, but in actuality he hussles up and down the court. On a team like the Nets, he is a perfect fit, because his weaknesses (defense, and rebounding) are covered up by Humphries and Wallace. This year he has also improved his defense, as evidenced by his blocks. You can't use one game, against one of the best teams in the NBA to claim he is a poor player.

Edit: Also how can you claim he forces shots when his FG% is 50+%? How can you claim he is an atrocious defender when he is averaging 2.5 blocks? A few mistakes does not make in invaluable.... I'd rather have him over 90% of the centers in the league.

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You guys serious? Lopez single handedly brought them back into the game with like 5 buckets in a row. Yeah he is sloppy at times, and his defense isn't the greatest at times... but saying he's bad offensively is ludacris. He's a juggernaught on offense... hardly ever misses a bucket because it's all around the rim. He has a nack for finding the open space, and his teammates have been finding him (as evidenced tonight by his open dunks on Dwight and Gasol - 2 of the greatest big men). He has a great shot for a big man as well, even though he hardly uses it because he's always around the rim. He gets to the line about 6 times a game because of this. He LOOKS slow, but in actuality he hussles up and down the court. On a team like the Nets, he is a perfect fit, because his weaknesses (defense, and rebounding) are covered up by Humphries and Wallace. This year he has also improved his defense, as evidenced by his blocks. You can't use one game, against one of the best teams in the NBA to claim he is a poor player.

Edit: Also how can you claim he forces shots when his FG% is 50+%? How can you claim he is an atrocious defender when he is averaging 2.5 blocks? A few mistakes does not make in invaluable.... I'd rather have him over 90% of the centers in the league.

You are looking at things from a fantasy perspective. Ya, he is a good scorer but that is about all I really see out of him. He ran the floor well to get 3 dunks set up by someone who actually plays defense on that team (Gerald Wallace who had 3 steals in 30 seconds). Lopez is your classic fantasy player, ala a Carmelo Anthony. They put up good fantasy stats so they get a reputation for being better than they actually are in real life. I analyze guys in every area defense, ball movement, passing ability, and in my many games watching Lopez I have not seen much improvement in those areas. Perhaps I need to watch more thoroughly. Good analysis by Rainyy above as well. Nice getting other peoples opinions to analyze from.

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