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sengsauce

Steve Franchise

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I haven't heard too much out of him this preseason, only that he looked great in a game - got a conditioning coach over the summer and that his knees were well enough to dunk over some guys. Anybody thinking he outplays Rafer and James and gets the starting gig?

I can see a respectable line of 13ppg 5apg and 4rpg and close to a steal a night- if he gets the starters minutes that is.

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I haven't heard too much out of him this preseason, only that he looked great in a game - got a conditioning coach over the summer and that his knees were well enough to dunk over some guys. Anybody thinking he outplays Rafer and James and gets the starting gig?

I can see a respectable line of 13ppg 5apg and 4rpg and close to a steal a night- if he gets the starters minutes that is.

I think thats a fairly accurate projection u have there.

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no way he gets those numbers and no way he gets starters minutes.

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Luther Head also is capable of running the point, even though he won't be asked to frequently do that. I think that could possibly take a few minutes away from him every now and then.

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He can get all of em cept maybe the 5 assists a game IMO.

nope, too much competition at the 1 (alston, james, aaron brooks). t-mac, head and maybe bonzi at the 2. his skills arent a good fitt for adelman's system (ie. hes not efficient with the ball doesnt know how to move without the ball and cant shoot well)

plus there's the overlooked fact that stevie's simply not a good player at this stage.

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no way he gets those numbers and no way he gets starters minutes.

I can see him getting starting minutes. Houston loves S.Franchise and he's had his best years there, Y.Ming certainly missed him.

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I can see him getting starting minutes. Houston loves S.Franchise and he's had his best years there, Y.Ming certainly missed him.

LoL. why would yao miss playing with him? remember watching francis play down there? dribble dribble dribble, crossover dribble dribble crossover step back, off balance jumper. he has no idea how to play a team game. never did. that, combined with his athletic decline is the reason why he's sucked the past couple of yrs. coaches finally forced him to try to play a team game and he didnt know how to.

i repeat, no way he gets starters minutes.

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I can see him getting starting minutes. Houston loves S.Franchise and he's had his best years there, Y.Ming certainly missed him.

I can't see it happening. Obviously he is going to have to perform to get the minutes, and I just think he is done as an impact player and a starter.

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I haven't heard too much out of him this preseason, only that he looked great in a game - got a conditioning coach over the summer and that his knees were well enough to dunk over some guys. Anybody thinking he outplays Rafer and James and gets the starting gig?

I can see a respectable line of 13ppg 5apg and 4rpg and close to a steal a night- if he gets the starters minutes that is.

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If he gets starter minutes I think his numbers will be higher than that, but I think starter minutes might be a bit of a tall order.

That said, I think he is greatly under estimated this season. Yao has said repeatedly that he likes playing with Francis and he is a push the ball kind of player, which is something Adleman likes.

If/when tmac goes down, I can see a lot of offense running through him. Yea yea, bonzi, but he'll be injured too.

I believe francis will be the starting pg. None of those other guys have every done anything special and they certainly have had plenty of opportunity. I just don't think Adelman will play anyone big minutes at that position. The difference between his best player and worst isn't that huge and everyone is fragile.

I actually think the above numbers are pretty reasonable except for the 4rb. That is a alot from a pg and they have some solid rebounders on that team. He could average well over a steal a game though, possible over 1.5.

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If he gets starter minutes I think his numbers will be higher than that, but I think starter minutes might be a bit of a tall order.

That said, I think he is greatly under estimated this season. Yao has said repeatedly that he likes playing with Francis and he is a push the ball kind of player, which is something Adleman likes.

If/when tmac goes down, I can see a lot of offense running through him. Yea yea, bonzi, but he'll be injured too.

I believe francis will be the starting pg. None of those other guys have every done anything special and they certainly have had plenty of opportunity. I just don't think Adelman will play anyone big minutes at that position. The difference between his best player and worst isn't that huge and everyone is fragile.

I actually think the above numbers are pretty reasonable except for the 4rb. That is a alot from a pg and they have some solid rebounders on that team. He could average well over a steal a game though, possible over 1.5.

what have you seen out of stevie in the past couple of yrs that makes you think he has any chance of bouncing back and earning starters minutes? hes looked horrible and has been seriously exposed as a one dimensional 1-on-1 player. everytime hes not been the focal point of an offense hes sucked cuz he doesnt know how to play without the ball.

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I can see him getting starting minutes. Houston loves S.Franchise and he's had his best years there, Y.Ming certainly missed him.

what?

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If he gets starter minutes I think his numbers will be higher than that, but I think starter minutes might be a bit of a tall order.

That said, I think he is greatly under estimated this season. Yao has said repeatedly that he likes playing with Francis and he is a push the ball kind of player, which is something Adleman likes.

If/when tmac goes down, I can see a lot of offense running through him. Yea yea, bonzi, but he'll be injured too.

I believe francis will be the starting pg. None of those other guys have every done anything special and they certainly have had plenty of opportunity. I just don't think Adelman will play anyone big minutes at that position. The difference between his best player and worst isn't that huge and everyone is fragile.

I actually think the above numbers are pretty reasonable except for the 4rb. That is a alot from a pg and they have some solid rebounders on that team. He could average well over a steal a game though, possible over 1.5.

agreed.

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what?

It was a joke.. maybe I should've put the little smiley on there.. Of course he didn't miss him, heck he's even written that he looked forward to the S.Francis/T.Mac trade. It was hilarious making it sound like he wanted "Franchise" out of there so badly..

As I write this, the proposed trade of Steve Francis (and other Rockets) for Tracy McGrady (and other Orlando Magic players) has still not happened. I have been waiting all week for this thing to happen, but it's still pending.

I don't know about you, but I think what Magic General Manager John Weisbrod has been doing is classless. Everyone thought this trade was going to happen Monday or Tuesday very quickly after it was acknowledged the Rockets and Magic were talking. But then all of a sudden the Magic started getting "buyer's remorse" and admitted they were entertaining offers from other teams, in essence using the Rockets to see if they could get something better.

But S.Francis did have his better years there.. I could see him getting starting minutes.

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It was a joke.. maybe I should've put the little smiley on there.. Of course he didn't miss him, heck he's even written that he looked forward to the S.Francis/T.Mac trade. It was hilarious making it sound like he wanted "Franchise" out of there so badly..

As I write this, the proposed trade of Steve Francis (and other Rockets) for Tracy McGrady (and other Orlando Magic players) has still not happened. I have been waiting all week for this thing to happen, but it's still pending.

I don't know about you, but I think what Magic General Manager John Weisbrod has been doing is classless. Everyone thought this trade was going to happen Monday or Tuesday very quickly after it was acknowledged the Rockets and Magic were talking. But then all of a sudden the Magic started getting "buyer's remorse" and admitted they were entertaining offers from other teams, in essence using the Rockets to see if they could get something better.

LoL, yao knew the deal. i dunno why anybody, except for cuttino, would wanna play with francis. he was easily one of the most overrated players of his sucky era. he put up the numbers that he did only cuz he was given the freedom to do whatever the hell he wanted to do on the floor, which meant he could play with the ball for 20 seconds and go 1 on 5.

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You guys are completely off base here. Yao wrote in his book about his appreciation for francis and talked about it in Year of the Yao.

From what I understand, they are still friends today. Obviously, he would rather play with Tmac, but who wouldn't?

Francis has shown that he is not competent as a #1 option. That is fine, because on Houston he will be the number three option at best. The only time he has played on a team that he hasn’t been the #1 option was the Knicks. Not really fair to judge him based on that situation. In addition, he was injured most of his time there. (the injuries are the biggest issue IMO)

Francis has proven he can push the ball, pass and flat out score. Sounds like an Adelman guy if you ask me. He has issues, but he clearly has proven far more value in the NBA than any of his competition.

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It was a joke.. maybe I should've put the little smiley on there.. Of course he didn't miss him, heck he's even written that he looked forward to the S.Francis/T.Mac trade. It was hilarious making it sound like he wanted "Franchise" out of there so badly..

As I write this, the proposed trade of Steve Francis (and other Rockets) for Tracy McGrady (and other Orlando Magic players) has still not happened. I have been waiting all week for this thing to happen, but it's still pending.

I don't know about you, but I think what Magic General Manager John Weisbrod has been doing is classless. Everyone thought this trade was going to happen Monday or Tuesday very quickly after it was acknowledged the Rockets and Magic were talking. But then all of a sudden the Magic started getting "buyer's remorse" and admitted they were entertaining offers from other teams, in essence using the Rockets to see if they could get something better.

But S.Francis did have his better years there.. I could see him getting starting minutes.

you really scared me for a minute!

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You guys are completely off base here. Yao wrote in his book about his appreciation for francis and talked about it in Year of the Yao.

From what I understand, they are still friends today. Obviously, he would rather play with Tmac, but who wouldn't?

Francis has shown that he is not competent as a #1 option. That is fine, because on Houston he will be the number three option at best. The only time he has played on a team that he hasn't been the #1 option was the Knicks. Not really fair to judge him based on that situation. In addition, he was injured most of his time there. (the injuries are the biggest issue IMO)

Francis has proven he can push the ball, pass and flat out score. Sounds like an Adelman guy if you ask me. He has issues, but he clearly has proven far more value in the NBA than any of his competition.

I seem to think he will do well in that system as well.

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You guys are completely off base here. Yao wrote in his book about his appreciation for francis and talked about it in Year of the Yao.

From what I understand, they are still friends today. Obviously, he would rather play with Tmac, but who wouldn't?

Francis has shown that he is not competent as a #1 option. That is fine, because on Houston he will be the number three option at best. The only time he has played on a team that he hasn't been the #1 option was the Knicks. Not really fair to judge him based on that situation. In addition, he was injured most of his time there. (the injuries are the biggest issue IMO)

Francis has proven he can push the ball, pass and flat out score. Sounds like an Adelman guy if you ask me. He has issues, but he clearly has proven far more value in the NBA than any of his competition.

stevie's decline started his 2nd yr in ORL after his boyfriend got traded. the same yr they drafted jameer nelson and started working francis more and more off the ball. his 3rd yr he started as ORL's SG, playing more off the ball, his numbers and overall efficiency (FG%) decreased again. he basically gets traded for trash just to get rid of him, becomes the 2nd or 3rd option, his legs start to go and his numbers bottom out. then he gets bought out by a bad knicks team.

so he cant play with the ball like he wants to, his athleticism isnt there anymore. what exactly does he have to fall back on? his game smarts and veteran savvy? lol

furthermore, adelman doesnt push the ball as much as you'd think, even less so with yao on the floor. the princeton offense requires that the guards and wings can shoot, move without the ball and pass. does that describe stevie?

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stevie's decline started his 2nd yr in ORL after his boyfriend got traded. the same yr they drafted jameer nelson and started working francis more and more off the ball. his 3rd yr he started as ORL's SG, playing more off the ball, his numbers and overall efficiency (FG%) decreased again. he basically gets traded for trash just to get rid of him, becomes the 2nd or 3rd option, his legs start to go and his numbers bottom out. then he gets bought out by a bad knicks team.

so he cant play with the ball like he wants to, his athleticism isnt there anymore. what exactly does he have to fall back on? his game smarts and veteran savvy? lol

furthermore, adelman doesnt push the ball as much as you'd think, even less so with yao on the floor. the princeton offense requires that the guards and wings can shoot, move without the ball and pass. does that describe stevie?

Actually no it doesnt.

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stevie's decline started his 2nd yr in ORL after his boyfriend got traded. the same yr they drafted jameer nelson and started working francis more and more off the ball. his 3rd yr he started as ORL's SG, playing more off the ball, his numbers and overall efficiency (FG%) decreased again. he basically gets traded for trash just to get rid of him, becomes the 2nd or 3rd option, his legs start to go and his numbers bottom out. then he gets bought out by a bad knicks team.

so he cant play with the ball like he wants to, his athleticism isnt there anymore. what exactly does he have to fall back on? his game smarts and veteran savvy? lol

furthermore, adelman doesnt push the ball as much as you'd think, even less so with yao on the floor. the princeton offense requires that the guards and wings can shoot, move without the ball and pass. does that describe stevie?

All great points, which is why I said he has proven he isn’t a good #1 option. Which is why you absolutely shouldn’t pick him anywhere near the top 50 (or top 100). In Orlando, his numbers started declining when they moved him off the ball. I don’t think anyone is claiming that he will put up numbers even as good as they were in Orlando even after they moved him off the ball (and he remained the #1 option). That said, he still put up numbers that were respectable. They just didn’t justify his draft status or his status as a #1 option, but as a #3 option drafted around 110 or later they were awesome numbers.

Also, Orlando traded him for cap relief (the most valuable player in the NBA especially for small market teams) to the biggest sucker in the NBA, so that point isn’t relevant. (neither is his recent cap relief trade)

12-15 points, 4-5 assist and a steal and/or 3 is perfectly doable for him if he can get 25 min a game. Obviously, its risky. If it weren’t he would be going much higher.

The big issue is that he may have “hit the wall” early in his career. He might be too broken to do anything significant, but its pretty hard to make that conclusion just yet. By mid December, we will know more.

I didn’t take him in my 12 team draft, but I was really solid at guard at the end. If I weren’t I would have definitely considered him. I might even consider him in my 10 team league if I have a need.

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