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baltimore_boy

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Nice team name change. You realize that Smyly has now become yours for the rest of the season. One of those "unwritten" rules of any league. You are allowed one name change per season. If you change the name to reflect a player on your team that player must remain on the team no matter how crappy he performs.

The only exception is you named your team after Ackley ( I did), and then people are to busy laughing at you for having Ackley on your team to notice when you drop him.

Ha, I wasn't aware of that tradition and I'm not even sure he's 100% mine-- his citizenship status and exit visa are still being determined. But yeah, if it comes down to it I will keep Smyly for the rest of the season, the nod to John LeCarre (Smiley's People is my favorite of his) will be a badge of honor. And maybe he'll even become a good luck charm like the hunchbacked mascot the Murderer's Row Yankees kept around

Besides, Smyly has quietly been putting up some holds, maybe 5th sp for Det. A couple wins here...a few cheesy 1 out holds there...the sky is the limit for Drew Smyly (1.1% owned in ESPN this morning) and all who sail with him ^_^

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Dayumm, a lot has gone down since I left. The Smokies were great but having no cell service for 4 days was tough. One of the coolest places I have ever seen tho..

Anywho, are we getting along yet? I read through the thread and looked at the trade and want to understand this more clearly. The way it should have been done was: Stanton/Smyly for Kendrick/V. Martinez/Reddick, right? But instead Smyly was given away later in the trade for free? Why did this happen?

I read it as well as I could but I'm a little car lagged. Just got back.

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Dayumm, a lot has gone down since I left. The Smokies were great but having no cell service for 4 days was tough. One of the coolest places I have ever seen tho..

Anywho, are we getting along yet? I read through the thread and looked at the trade and want to understand this more clearly. The way it should have been done was: Stanton/Smyly for Kendrick/V. Martinez/Reddick, right? But instead Smyly was given away later in the trade for free? Why did this happen?

I read it as well as I could but I'm a little car lagged. Just got back.

Basically, the trade went through with Stanton for Kendrick/Martinez/Reddick. However they wanted Smyly in it, so Meister sent through a trade of just Smyly to Rob a few hours later that was accepted, which just looked strange. It was meant to be all together, but since they came through separately, some people are concerned about it being collusion because Rob was out of add/drops for the week. RAZR and AOH have already voted to veto it because of a collusion concerns, so 2 more votes and it will be vetoed.

Also, just of note for the trade, it will officially go through at 11:41 pm tonight. After that, it will be official and not (at least I don't think) reversable.

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It is actually a little more complicated then that ex[planation. The original trade was posted and approved on a Friday. The trade of Smyly (who wasn't on a roster) was proposed the following Monday.

When it was brought up that you can;t have a trade with no compensation the following explanation was given. Mr. T picked up Smyly as part of the origianl trade because the other manager had run out of ADD/Drops for the week. It was also stated that it was done to "circumvent" the ADD/DROP rule.

For Razor and I that is collusion (minor) as it violates the rules we agreed to play by. It also fits the drfinition of collusion by a dictionary. It was then stated that it should be all right if they had notified the league of what they were doing. Again, at least to me, that it still against the rules we play by whether they tell us or not.

Then it comes down to that it shouldn't matter as the player was Smyly. Not very good and doesn't effect anything. Again just my contention that the player isn't the important part (could be any player), but the act itself is the problem.

I am in a few leagues and wrote to the commissioner in a couple of them. Not using the league name or anyone's nick involed just the details of what happened. Both said that if it happened in one of thier leagues the second trade would be vetoed by them no matter what the league vote was. Both concurred that what was done shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.

So the first proposal was accepted Friday and the second was accepted the following Monday. Smyly was picked up 24 hours after the first trade was accepted. So a few hours isn't totally factual.

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Thanks for the explanation. I have no problem with the players involved. The way it was done is not very fantasy kosher, only by the fact that whomever it was didn't have any add/drops left so they were basically given a gift.

Oh well.

PLAY BALL!

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It is actually a little more complicated then that ex[planation. The original trade was posted and approved on a Friday. The trade of Smyly (who wasn't on a roster) was proposed the following Monday.

When it was brought up that you can;t have a trade with no compensation the following explanation was given. Mr. T picked up Smyly as part of the origianl trade because the other manager had run out of ADD/Drops for the week. It was also stated that it was done to "circumvent" the ADD/DROP rule.

For Razor and I that is collusion (minor) as it violates the rules we agreed to play by. It also fits the drfinition of collusion by a dictionary. It was then stated that it should be all right if they had notified the league of what they were doing. Again, at least to me, that it still against the rules we play by whether they tell us or not.

Then it comes down to that it shouldn't matter as the player was Smyly. Not very good and doesn't effect anything. Again just my contention that the player isn't the important part (could be any player), but the act itself is the problem.

I am in a few leagues and wrote to the commissioner in a couple of them. Not using the league name or anyone's nick involed just the details of what happened. Both said that if it happened in one of thier leagues the second trade would be vetoed by them no matter what the league vote was. Both concurred that what was done shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.

So the first proposal was accepted Friday and the second was accepted the following Monday. Smyly was picked up 24 hours after the first trade was accepted. So a few hours isn't totally factual.

That's one way of putting it. I'd amend numerous aspects of this summary but the thread is long enough as is, and any more summations will just add more noise. If Jmad or others have the willpower they can go back to when this started and read the whole thing from the beginning-- the various delays and circumstances behind all of this mess are explained throughout.

As for collusion, that's also been discussed before so no need to rehash it. Insisting on a word which most people, including myself, consider a very serious accusation while also declaring it's minor is a contradiction, and going by the letter of rules instead of the spirit opens a lot of doors that are just better left alone. I'll just stop here on all that.

Anyway FWIW am abstaining from voting on the deal (not that my vote means much unless I suddenly decided I want Smyly on my team), and it surprised me I even had a vote, didn't think you were allowed to vote on your own deal.

Also fwiw, should the deal be vetoed I also resolve to keep Drew Smyly for the rest of the 2013 season. And if by the grace of the fantasy gods my team performs the greatest turnaround since the Miracle Mets and wins the league, I will make Smyly my 6th round pick in 2014, in honor of his jersey #33. Whether this is done as a form of penance or for other, stronger motivations, well...

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I wasn't around so I probably missed the message about the details of the deal. I didn't see it in this thread tho. Someone just asked why a player was given to another team for free and that's when an explanation was given.

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The reason for the delay was because I was mostly away from the internet for a couple days. I thought I had accepted but clearly hadn't. This was mentiined. Meister T and myself were both having a lot of priorities irl and communication wasn't as smooth as either of us are surely accustomed.

Also, the leagues I'm in would all allow this without any issue (once things were explained). So...don't see how mentioning our individual leagues matter.

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Btw, that is NOT the dictionary definition of collusion. The mere fact we have been very open with things (though admittedly after the fact) goes against the definition. This was clearly not done to deceive others. In the future I suggest you refrain from using words if you do not fully understand their meaning.

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Btw, that is NOT the dictionary definition of collusion. The mere fact we have been very open with things (though admittedly after the fact) goes against the definition. This was clearly not done to deceive others. In the future I suggest you refrain from using words if you do not fully understand their meaning.

Really dude? Can we stop playing the "your intellect is inferior to mine therefore your position is invalid" game? And I'm pretty sure the after the fact part is kind of important. Just my non-english savvy mind thinking.If you really want to play this game here we go " a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally." No one in the league knew about it when it was done. A leauge member gained a player illegally through circumventing league rules. Its that simple. Also, in the future I'd suggest not making such quips about someones intelligence if you intend on persuading them of anything.

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Btw, that is NOT the dictionary definition of collusion. The mere fact we have been very open with things (though admittedly after the fact) goes against the definition. This was clearly not done to deceive others. In the future I suggest you refrain from using words if you do not fully understand their meaning.

yes that actually is the definition of the word collusion. I didn't graduate from High School so I lack a formal education and English wasn't a strong suit so I have learned to look up words that I am not for sure about. I also do that with spelling to not appear dumb. But through 59 years of living I do know the diffeence between right and wrong

Whether you were open or not makes little difference after both trades were accepted. Either you or the other manager used for the first excuse that it was done to circumvent league rules. Since it was done in secret and was illegal (against the rules) it qualifies.

Doesn't matter who the player was or that this is a free league. It was either collusion or just plain cheating. Take your choice of words both fit equally well..

I have sent an email to each league member saying that I no longer wish to participate in this league. I play for fun (but want to also win) from this time forward any move you two make I will wonder if it is above aboard. Takes the fun out of it for me.

Thanks for inviting me to play. Sorry it turned out this way.

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I'm simply tired of his immature passive aggressive act. You called it collusion and while I disagree, that seemed to be the end of it. I take some offense to the term but whatever. Not a huge deal as we said our piece then voted. I understand and respect most differing opinions even if I don't particularly care for them. It's Drew freaking Smyly. I would have moved on easily enough. He's not a stud. I doubt anyone would pick him up soon. He's a guy Hippie himself said would be punishment to the team that owns him.

For Hippie to continue to claim he's "over it" and yet continue making comments/asking questions? Effing ridiculous. Come out strongly against it or don't - that is completely understandable either way. Don't claim you're over while continuing to attack it. That is an absurd level of passive aggression.

And now he quit the league despite claiming to be past it? Adios. Zero tolerance for passive aggressive cowardly liars.

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Whoops forgot to state that (at least for me) it is over with and forgotten.

Clearly.

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And at least set up a lineup before running away. To deliberately throw this tantrum by benching everyone first? Why go out of your way to do that? Pretend you have a modicum of respect for other members in the league. It took *extra* effort to bench everyone. For the love of god.

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And at least set up a lineup before running away. To deliberately throw this tantrum by benching everyone first? Why go out of your way to do that? Pretend you have a modicum of respect for other members in the league. It took *extra* effort to bench everyone. For the love of god.

Guess I just don't understand the intelligent way of doing things. Up until that last post claiming I didn't know the definition of the word collusion I had still been trying to put together a winning team. Sent out proposals this afternoon for a trade.

You really are clueless. The player didn't matter. It could have been any player in the game. It was the attitude of what we did was alright even though we knowingly broke the rule. If would have been right if we had just told everyone we were breaking the rule. It was a "poor choice of words" but all the other leagues would have let it go by.

Your condescending tone.

The only thing you have been right about is that it is a s---y way of leaving the team. For that I apologize. I'll go set a line up.

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And at least set up a lineup before running away. To deliberately throw this tantrum by benching everyone first? Why go out of your way to do that? Pretend you have a modicum of respect for other members in the league. It took *extra* effort to bench everyone. For the love of god.

For most members I do have respect. There are just a few that I don't any longer. It really took under a minute to do.

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(Whenever I join a Rotoworld-based league, I have to make at least one initial statement about my mod status here is irrelevant. I assume you guys already know that.)

I wasn't even aware of this discussion until yesterday. When I saw the trade I was a little confused by the addition of Smyly after the fact, but I chalked it up to two guys who worked out an oddball deal and, honestly, it was a player that didn't do a lot for the deal one way or the other. Now that I've read through the thread, I can understand why it's being discussed, but I really don't get the outrage.

If the rules are that a manager can acquire as many players as he wants through trades, regardless of whether he has an waiver acquisitions left, then there shouldn't be a problem. As far as calling it collusion, I'd point out that every deal involves SOME collusion. It's always two managers plotting a way to improve both of their teams and beat everyone else. The kind of collusion that gets trades vetoed is when one manager agrees to join forces with another to create one super team out of the best players from both teams (and them presumably split the profit in a money league). There's every indication that nothing like that happened here.

What DID happen was two managers whose negotiations went beyond the simple "I'll give you player A for player B". I don't think that's unethical. Last year I did something similar when I was sitting with the #12 waiver priority and someone I wanted popped up on the wire. I went to the guy with the #1 spot and told him to pick up the guy I wanted and I'd pay a high price for him. Technically I found a way to "circumvent the rules", but I don't think I did anything wrong. It was obvious to everyone else in the league what our arrangement was and no one complained.

My point is (yes, I do have one...) that we're just playing in a basic10 team league for fun. This deal caused some eyebrows to be raised but it really wasn't anything deliberately shady. It's easy for a misunderstanding like this to escalate, just as it's easy to get mad when you're playing baseball with friends and there's a disagreement about whether someone is safe or out. The best way to handle it is to avoid name calling and just move on.

Charlie, I hope that you'll read this and rethink your decision to resign from the league. Even if you're still skeptical about this transaction, there's only one occurrence and no pattern of unusual activity. Rather than throw the league into a tailspin, can you withhold judgment for the time being? (If not, can you at least trade me your Justin Upton for my Jordan Schafer before you go?)

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I don't think we can replace managers in a free ESPN league, correct me if I'm wrong. Hope you change your mind Hippie.

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I don't have any experience in ESPN leagues, but if AOH really is out, can someone else just take his place in the league and then have control of his team?

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If you look at the My Team page, there's not even an option for Hippie to even leave the league, unless I'm missing something.

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Well, he did reset his lineup and unless there's a rash of injuries it still represents a competitive team. I'd much rather have AOH come back, but if he's really made up his mind then I'd just leave the team alone.

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Hippie, Its understandable why you questioned this trade. The word circumvent left me scratching my head as well.

But something like this, or worse won't happen again. Some leagues would allow that, some wouldn't. This was meant to be a fun league among a few sports nuts such as ourselves. I hope you can change your mind.

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Iirc, you can add a second owner to any team. I don't recall how it's done but we had to do it in one league a couple seasons ago. I doubt ESPN has removed that aspect (but you never know with ESPN). Once the second owner is added, you can remove the first.

But I've no issue with Hippie sticking around. I'm simply tired of claims of being over it then quickly following it up with another remark.

Again I apologize to everyone including Hippie for causing the initial confusion. Never meant for Smyly of all people to cause this kind of uproar. But last thing I'd like to point out - this league is full of people who seem to know their stuff. There are no "noobs". It's a major part of the appeal. But that also means there's a lot of knowledge...and if the collective is okay with the trade maybe it's time to realize just because you haven't done that kind in your leagues doesn't mean it's wrong. Maybe you and I can work out our own funky trade!

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good god, didn't expect this to jump up even another notch.

Come back, Hippie, if I can stick with my lousy autodrafted Frankenstein team then you can stay on. Hell, I'd stick around just to try and pummel Rob and I in the weekly matchup, this is what great rivalries are born of. ;)

(If you think this is bad try a public winners-only money league in Yahoo for some genuine villainy)

Really, this has gotten so blown out of proportion. Yeah, Rob and I fk'd up our communications with the league and the timing of the deal between just us got totally thrown off too. We should've said what was going on, we apologized for that messup, this should've been done better with clearer comms the whole way through.

The entire Stanton deal was somewhat of a monstrosity to begin with. I never would have drafted him, much of the rest of my lineup was also an autodrafted nightmare, was just trying to sell him for a package of fantasy-worthy guys to at least try to form the baseline of a competitive team. In the backdrop of that I was in the middle of an insane week IRL and Rob was away for a few days, that just confused the Smyly part even more. The WW Smyly part was a way to even out the rosters a bit via an alternate route. Okay, now we know...whatever we've learned

Tempers have flared, some words thrown out and angry posts, I'm a culprit in that too, as easily as this could've been sorted out with better comms to begin with, this can just as easily be chalked up to league growing pains or whatever and move on. Balt has offered to mitigate the trade results by simply putting Rondon on my squad, I'm fine with that (and not cause I like him or even know anything about the dude) then I can change my team name to Rondon's Lighters.

Am also more than fine with doing nothing at this point and moving on. All I know is that this seems like real lot about a real little, let's move on and have fun, like JMad said, let's just play some ball

(oh and one more thing before I forget-- phizzics, yo, if you manage to snake J-Up out of Hippie, pm me bro, think we've got a lot to talk about. Of course I'll then be BCC'ing that to Rob on the side while also talking to whoever has the top waiver priority, and of course all comms via the Tor network per Cell Leader 4's little red instruction manual. The Roto Legends League can't handle the truth!)

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