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Stullyb

PPR Doug Martin vs Jamaal Charles

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So I have the 4th pick in my annual draft me and my buddies have done for the past 6 years and I already know the guys picks ahead of me which are 1.AP 2.Foster 3. Ray Rice.... I change my mind on whether to choose Martin or Charles everyday. One day I read up on Martin and tell myself he is the pick then the next I read up on Charles and think the same. Im curious as to what everyones thoughts are on choosing between the 2?

I know alot of people would say to go with megatron at that spot but I just feel like the WR spot is far more loaded than the RB spot this year so I feel like I can get quality WR in later rounds and want a top notch RB.

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IMO Martin is the #1 ppr back this year. No competition, he had more yds, receptions and receving yds than Foster in 2012 and was #2 rb last year. He has a better O line than Charles and will be getting back his to pro bowl guards that were out last year. No brainer in my eyes.

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Id go Charles for sure. Look up Westbrook's receiving stats under Andy Reid. They're ridiculous considering he never played a full season.

Martin is a little safer but Charles has much more upside, especially in PPR.

Also I agree I wouldn't go Megatron.

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PPR? J.C. all the way. Don't forget he has a QB with no arm strength, Mr.King of the check down. Also, they have Andy Reid calling the shots now.

http://forums.rotowo...=0#entry3642351

How did those receptions work out for Frank Gore last two years with Alex Smith?

I love Charles, tremendous player, but the overhype on him is RIDICULOUS this year. Compare him head to head with Doug Martin...

Martin beat him by 200 total yards

Martin had 14 more receptions

Martin had 6 more touchdowns

Ok, you can say Doug was "lucky" in a few games and may regress (which I disagree with on both points due to their division's run defenses and their improved O-Line and Defense -- better defense = more leads = more rushing in 2nd halves); and you can be projecting a bump in production from Charles -- but there's no way he beats him by enough to make up that total difference in stats.

Charles' ceiling is the 4th or 5th best player in the league, Martin's is #1 overall.

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Its fair to say you'd rather have Martin than Charles fantasy-wise (although I disagree, especially in PPR) but saying Charles' CEILING is #4 or #5 is ridiculous. He has insane upside, just a lower floor.

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Its fair to say you'd rather have Martin than Charles fantasy-wise (although I disagree, especially in PPR) but saying Charles' CEILING is #4 or #5 is ridiculous. He has insane upside, just a lower floor.

Doesn't score nearly enough TD's to be a top guy; he had ONE Red Zone rushing TD last year. You don't just rip off 80-yd TD's every week...unless your name is Adrian Peterson.

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On a 2-14 team that didn't have a lead for a single second the 1st half of the year, with no QB and an incompetent coaching staff. Reid workhorse RBs always get a lot of TDs. They often get 5+ from receiving alone.

And he's got as good a chance as anyone to lead the NFL in total yards.

Edit: I meant to quote the post above this one ^

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By taking him at #2 or #3, you are expecting a lot and paying a premium for it, I just don't see room to earn anything there even if he goes nuts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm gonna let someone else benefit from it or suck on the gas pipe -- even in PPR's I much prefer Martin (and Foster, McCoy & Spiller), have Charles at #6/7 right now neck and neck with Rice and would have T-Rich higher than him too if it wasn't for an absolutely ridiculous Browns schedule.

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Well he's picking 4th and I think there's plenty of room for value in taking Charles there. But to each his own.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for Spiller over Charles in PPR if you don't mind. Just curious.

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I like Martin. I know every one is high on Charles and I have him ranked 6 in my rankings, but Reid is notorious for ignoring the run. I know he is expected to be very involved in the passing game; but I'm expecting McCluster to get some of those receptions. I agree with above post Charles may have a higher ceiling, slightly; but Martin's floor is much higher and much less risk.

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Well he's picking 4th and I think there's plenty of room for value in taking Charles there. But to each his own.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for Spiller over Charles in PPR if you don't mind. Just curious.

Doesn't matter if he's picking 9th if Martin is still there as well.

There's just as much talk about Spiller getting additional work with Marone's offense as there is Charles -- except that I've seen Spiller score 8 TD's with 43 receptions in his first 14.5 games as a starter; Charles has career highs of 8 TD's and 45 receptions in 4 full seasons (3 as the full time starter). It's always fun to "bet on the come", but in the first round I'm looking for the safer studs, not the guys I'm "hoping" boom, only to be stuck with a bust many years. I got Charles in the 4th of a huge National Contest league last year and he still was barely a low end RB1 when you prorated McCoy & Sproles -- just way too much risk for me to spend a top 4 pick on him.

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but Reid is notorious for ignoring the run

This is HUGE thing people are overlooking on Charles -- they are just expecting him to add a free 15-20 receptions to his 2012 numbers; the much more likely case is he trades away ~150 rushing yards for 150 receiving yards.

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Someone mentioned Brian Westbrook in Reid's Offense -- Charles had 285 carries last year, Westbrook never got to that number and only had over 240 once.

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I think people are forgetting who Charles' coach was last year. He would completely abandon the run as much if not more than Reid. Don't understand why people are so sure his rushing attempts will go down so much.

They've added the #1 pick in the draft to the o-line, and got a competent QB to take a little pressure of Charles.

Reid's workhorse RBs have gotten similar amounts of carries to what Charles did last year (if you extrapolate them to 16 games) and these were on offenses with many more weapons. I can't see Reid throwing more than in the past that now when Charles is by far their best weapon and Alex Smith <<< McNabb/Vick.

I could easily see Charles getting the same amount of carries as last year, and possibly a higher YPC with Fischer and Alex Smith in town. I could also easily see him doubling his catches this year, if not more. Just look at what Westbrook did under Reid in the receiving department.

Also let's not forget McCoy had 20TDs in 15 games 2 years ago (probably a fluke, but should still mean a little something)

This is where all the hype is coming from

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Someone mentioned Brian Westbrook in Reid's Offense -- Charles had 285 carries last year, Westbrook never got to that number and only had over 240 once.

He also never played 16 games in his career. He was hurt a lot.

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Someone mentioned Brian Westbrook in Reid's Offense -- Charles had 285 carries last year, Westbrook never got to that number and only had over 240 once.

He also never played 16 games in his career. He was hurt a lot.

Because Charles has never been hurt before either. Westbrook played 15, 15, 14 games during his 3 big seasons.

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This is where all the hype is coming from

I understand where the hype is coming from, but I just refuse to "baaah" with all the other sheep. I could be wrong, but I'm not willing to gamble to find out at that price; if I'm picking #5 or #6 and he's the top guy on my list, he'll be on my team -- but if I'm at #4 or earlier in every draft, I will have zero Jamaal's this year and I'm fine with that. To each his own.

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Someone mentioned Brian Westbrook in Reid's Offense -- Charles had 285 carries last year, Westbrook never got to that number and only had over 240 once.

He also never played 16 games in his career. He was hurt a lot.

Because Charles has never been hurt before either. Westbrook played 15, 15, 14 games during his 3 big seasons.

Well other than Charles' ACL tear (which was flukey, he tripped on a first down marker), he has only missed one game in his career. So its completely fair to say Westbrook is more injury prone, considering he never played a full year.

And over those 3 big seasons his rushes (if you extrapolate them to 16 games) average out to 273, with a high of 297. His receptions come out to 80 per year, with a high of 96 (the same year with the 297 rushing attempts). He also averages about 13 TDs a year as well.

I'd be ecstatic if Charles can match that, and I don't see any clear-cut reason he wouldn't.

But I understand if you're skeptical, I just want people to understand the hype. I hate when people pretend there isn't any reason to really like Charles this year, because Reid hates RBs (not talking about you)

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How did those receptions work out for Frank Gore last two years with Alex Smith?

Harbaugh/Roman's offense doesnt really utilize checkdowns and has like no screen passes (for some reason) in it

Andy Reid loves for RB to get touches in the pass game. McCoy, Westbrook, even Staley had tons of receptions under fat Andy

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