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Kobe_No_Means_No

2013-2014 Playoffs NBA Finals Game Thread

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I'll let lebron shoot all day

It's either that or he drives in for the and 1, and getting guys like Duncan and Leonard into foul trouble

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And the Spurs do vary up their defenses dependent on situation, place on the floor, and time on the clock.

Yes, the Spurs generally do that systematically, but remember their individua plan on Lebron for Game 7. This is the final game of the series, and they let Lebron shoot open jumper after open jumper. Obviously, they decided to play the "odds", but it easily backfired on them. It was so blatant that Pop was even seen signaling to Kawhi to lay back and let Lebron shoot those long shots. So no -- Pop wasn't varying his plan on Lebron, even during Game 7.

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I'll let lebron shoot all day

It's either that or he drives in for the and 1, and getting guys like Duncan and Leonard into foul trouble

Yea, the plan shouldn't be to give Lebron the paint. But, you shouldn't be so gimmicky by simply backing off and letting Lebron set his shot and take open jumpers, particularly in Game 7. That was pretty insulting to leave Lebron that open. That strategy will not bode well in the long run.

Edited by StreetCred

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The point is, yes, you don't let Lebron get in the paint... but, don't do the same ol' gimmick as last year and simply play the "odds" and let the best player in the world shoot uncontested jumpers. That didn't work in the long run, and I think Pops is smart enough to realize that.

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The point is, yes, you don't let Lebron get in the paint... but, don't do the same ol' gimmick as last year and simply play the "odds" and let the best player in the world shoot uncontested jumpers. That didn't work in the long run, and I think Pops is smart enough to realize that.

So what are you saying is the solution then if you were a coach? You play him up close to possibly contest the shot it's either a possible foul call or he bullies you for the drive. If you leave him uncontested you pretty much negate the passing lanes and his driving opportunity and if he tries to drive in the paint you can set your feet for the offensive foul.

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So what are you saying is the solution then if you were a coach? You play him up close to possibly contest the shot it's either a possible foul call or he bullies you for the drive. If you leave him uncontested you pretty much negate the passing lanes and his driving opportunity and if he tries to drive in the paint you can set your feet for the offensive foul.

I'm not saying I know the solution.. I'm just saying, playing the "statistical odds" on Lebron James, at this stage in his career, is not gonna work in the long run, It sure didn't work in last year's Finals.

My first thought of a solution is for the Spurs to MIX UP the schemes on Lebron. I don't think Pop did that enough in last Finals. It was a blatant, 'we dare you to shoot' strategy. That's too gimmicky against the best player in the world. I just think Pop has a plan, and its not gonna be the same gimmick. He needs to add a wrinkle to his game plan against Lebron and even against Wade.

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LeBron is very insecure abour his jumpshot and hes pretty suspect. As a coach this is the best way to go about defending LeBron. But shooting 38% is NOT consider a great jump shooter dude, your Stan alike on LeBron is ridiculous

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Yeah, the Spurs choked the last 30 seconds of Game 6, but the Heat still had to win in OT, and win Game 7. And in Game 7, Lebron dropped jumper after jumper in that game, with NO ADJUSTMENT from Pop. Throw away those shooting % numbers. Lebron may be most uncomfortable shooting jumpers, but he won't be when he's being dared that much and allowed to set his feet to shoot an uncontested shot. That's the Spurs' blunder... they dared the best player in the world, and they almost beat him. Almost.

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LeBron is very insecure abour his jumpshot and hes pretty suspect. As a coach this is the best way to go about defending LeBron. But shooting 38% is NOT consider a great jump shooter dude, your Stan alike on LeBron is ridiculous

What I said was, 447 FG% from midrange is "great". The .376 fg% is still middling. You need to re-read my post. On account of 2013, you simply cannot say, 'oh, he shot 38% from midrange, down from 45%, so he's a worse shooter now'... That's ludicrous, particularly when you're dealing with the best player in the world. I hope pro coaches don't really think that way, or else they won't be in the league.

Edited by StreetCred

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So what are you saying is the solution then if you were a coach? You play him up close to possibly contest the shot it's either a possible foul call or he bullies you for the drive. If you leave him uncontested you pretty much negate the passing lanes and his driving opportunity and if he tries to drive in the paint you can set your feet for the offensive foul.

I'm not saying I know the solution.. I'm just saying, playing the "statistical odds" on Lebron James, at this stage in his career, is not gonna work in the long run, It sure didn't work in last year's Finals.

My first thought of a solution is for the Spurs to MIX UP the schemes on Lebron. I don't think Pop did that enough in last Finals. It was a blatant, 'we dare you to shoot' strategy. That's too gimmicky against the best player in the world. I just think Pop has a plan, and its not gonna be the same gimmick. He needs to add a wrinkle to his game plan against Lebron and even against Wade.

I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Look, we're all arm chair coaches and players here and none of us have great grasps of professional concepts or strategy. The NBA jump in game planning makes college look like keystone cops out there so it's fun to speculate and have fun with the 50% of stuff we catch. But when you invent multiple straw men fallacies, ignore statistical information, cherry pick data, and basically rely on anecdotal evidence then there's not much credible conversation to have.

Relying on one game to try and support a theory is spurious at best. He had a great game 7. Awesome. Great players have great games, it happens. But were the Spurs fairly effective in limiting Lebron last year throughout the series?

Reg Season: 26.8 PPG on 56.5% FG% and 40.6% from 3. He shot 60.2% from 2 PT.

Finals: 25.3 PPG on 44.7% FG% and 35.3 from 3. He averaged 43 minutes a game.

Sure looks like it. And they're not giving him uncontested two's most of the time, they're just backing off and trying to contest long 2's. Lebron's an amazing player so he found other ways to contribute. Mainly by rebounding a little more and always playing very good defense down the stretch. Now, who knows if holding Lebron to less than 45% shooting is good enough for the Spurs coaching staff to change their strategy on him. But to say it wasn't effective, is simply ignorant for whatever reasons you want to invent.

IMO, last year the series was won because Parker was ineffective after game 2, Ray Allen and Mike Miller shot outstanding from beyond the arc, a few unfortunate breakdowns by the Spurs coaching staff in game 6, and the Heat were the better team during the reg season and captured home court. Every series is a small sample in itself. Who knows what will happen in this sample. Maybe Lebron shoots 80% in 4 games and the Heat kills the Spurs. Maybe Danny Green figures out how to play on the road and hits at least 4 3's every game and the Spurs take it. I don't know, but it would appear from the data provided that your original thesis that the Spurs strategy on Lebron wasn't effective is incorrect. If you want to alter your thesis by saying it lost effectiveness as the series went on, then you may be on to something but it still wouldn't credibly explain game 5 and game 6 for Lebron where he shot well below his season averages.

If you think the Heat will win because Lebron James is an unstoppable force and the best player on the court, then just say so. I don't think many people wouldn't respect that position and it's not really profound. Guy's an incredible player and a joy to watch from a basketball perspective.....except for his ridiculous flopping.

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If you want to alter your thesis by saying it lost effectiveness as the series went on, then you may be on to something but it still wouldn't credibly explain game 5 and game 6 for Lebron where he shot well below his season averages.

That is my thesis! Re-read what I said. Games 1-3, Lebron was a bit shell shocked by the strategy, but by Games 4-7, he figured out how to attack it (46-96 FGs in that span). In Game 5 and 6, though he shot below his averages, those were great games for him because he was being AGGRESSIVE in taking what the defense gave him, instead of forcing his way into a crowded paint, then being forced to pass off, or, simply being passive.

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Relying on one game to try and support a theory is spurious at best. He had a great game 7. Awesome. Great players have great games, it happens. But were the Spurs fairly effective in limiting Lebron last year throughout the series?

I did say that preventing Lebron from going in the paint was the best way to limit his effectiveness... but there is not one strategy to do this, and there needs to be some ADJUSTMENTS when you see him getting hot, like in Game 7. Pop clearly did not make any adjustment, and I think it was more about sticking with the gameplan, but also, there was a bit of arrogance in the game plan, to basically dare Lebron to beat them that way.

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But to say it wasn't effective, is simply ignorant for whatever reasons you want to invent.

Again, read my comments.. I said, it wasn't effective IN THE LONG RUN, and, there needed to be ADJUSTMENTS, and I basically saw none in Game 7, when the guy was hitting shot after shot. I know we're all enamored by Pop, but he made a bad call there, but then again, 20/20 hindsight.. but going into rematch, no way does a smart coach like Pop re-hash the same plan that 'lost it's effectiveness' in the last 4 games of last year's Finals.

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If you want to alter your thesis by saying it lost effectiveness as the series went on, then you may be on to something but it still wouldn't credibly explain game 5 and game 6 for Lebron where he shot well below his season averages.

That is my thesis! Re-read what I said. Games 1-3, Lebron was a bit shell shocked by the strategy, but by Games 4-7, he figured out how to attack it (46-96 FGs in that span). In Game 5 and 6, though he shot below his averages, those were great games for him because he was being AGGRESSIVE in taking what the defense gave him, instead of forcing his way into a crowded paint, then being forced to pass off, or, simply being passive.

And in the last 3 games he was 31 of 71 or 43% (below his series or reg season %) with 2 of 3 of those being at home. See how that works? I think you're trying your best but your suffering from confirmation bias. Regardless, I'm moving on b/c this "debate" is going in circles with you trying to basically cherry pick game 7 and say, the Spurs strategy really needs to be change. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but your argument remains unconvincing.

Hope we can have a really good series with everyone remaining healthy. I think that's what even the casual NBA observer would like.....

I'm interested to see what Parker's cutting and agility look like. Unfortunately, I think his ankle is a ticking time bomb, so the Spurs have to hope they can get 4-5 90% or better games out of him. I'm interested to see who can provide the Mike Miller impact that he's had on 2 Finals, it's not so easily replaced. Rashard Lewis had one big game vs Indy, but it was in a loss. I'm interested to see if the Spurs can contain their emotions. I'm sure they're pretty fired up but that can sometimes have a negative impact. I'm interested to see how Chris Bosh's extended 3 point game influences rotations (he was 0 for 6 last year). I'm much more concerned about this than most. I'm interested to see what the Spurs get from their bench. What does Patty Mills and MIArco Bellinelli can give. I'm interested to see a healthy Wade and Manu and to see how that impacts the game......Hope we get a good one.

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And in the last 3 games he was 31 of 71 or 43% (below his series or reg season %) with 2 of 3 of those being at home. See how that works? I think you're trying your best but your suffering from confirmation bias. Regardless, I'm moving on b/c this "debate" is going in circles with you trying to basically cherry pick game 7 and say, the Spurs strategy really needs to be change. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but your argument remains unconvincing.

Well, at least you finally understand my point, even though you think it's "unconvincing". At least you're not misconstruing my points anymore. Anyways, for me, this is about Lebron being a great study, and sooner or later, he'll figure it out, especially when the game plan is so blatant. And no, I'm not cherry-picking Game 7... I'm looking at the whole of last Finals, and how it ultimately ended, and if I was Pop, I would not re-hash the same gimmick.. I'd add some wrinkles and mix up the coverages. But that's just my "arm chair" opinion. You might say, that's crazy, stick with the game plan that limited Lebron to below average FG%, but for me, I'd say, no way, I think Lebron is too aware of the old strategy... gotta use the same plan (keep James off the paint) but mix it up.. do something new.. a different zone, a different wrinkle.. don't just do the same exact plan, is all I am saying.

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Rashard Lewis had one big game vs Indy, but it was in a loss. I'm interested to see if the Spurs can contain their emotions. I'm sure they're pretty fired up but that can sometimes have a negative impact. I'm interested to see how Chris Bosh's extended 3 point game influences rotations (he was 0 for 6 last year). I'm much more concerned about this than most. I'm interested to see what the Spurs get from their bench. What does Patty Mills and MIArco Bellinelli can give. I'm interested to see a healthy Wade and Manu and to see how that impacts the game......Hope we get a good one.

Don't forget, Shard also had a great showing in Game 6 during the close out game vs Indy. I'm also interested to see how Cole and Birdman perform, since I remember both having subpar Finals performances. Cole is coming off a solid showing against Indy, and if he's on, that would be huge. I actually think the Spurs lost a big time gunner in Gary Neal (fearless), and I am not convinced that Patty Mills and Bellinelli (both first timers in the Finals) will be ready for this stage. Bosh, I am expecting him to have a solid series. Hope he remembers that goose egg in Game 7... but he's coming in healthy and hot from the last series, unlike last year, so that should bode well for him... I am most concerned about Diaw.. he looks like a better player this year.

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Gooo Spurs.

F THE HEAT

I can feel the hate.

Let them hate. Who cares? 2 rings and 4 Finals appearances. Enuf said. Let 'em hate and hate more, then drool.

Heat in 6. Steal 1 on the road then take care of business at home. It'll be harder to close out the Spurs if it reaches game 7 at their home.

#3PEATHEAT

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Gooo Spurs.

F THE HEAT

I can feel the hate.

Let them hate. Who cares? 2 rings and 4 Finals appearances. Enuf said. Let 'em hate and hate more, then drool.

Heat in 6. Steal 1 on the road then take care of business at home. It'll be harder to close out the Spurs if it reaches game 7 at their home.

#3PEATHEAT

10407242_654567814623648_7801376425584677468_n.jpg

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You can tease the Heat as a "bought" legacy, but I'll counter with the Spurs as a "tanked" legacy ;) (when they tanked and fortunately got the 1st pick, Tim Duncan).

Anyways, the buzz from beatwriters is that the Heat will start Rashard Lewis at PF (Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Chalmers). Battier is another option, but Shard should get the nod. The team has been very good with his resurgence, plus, the Heat have said that they're not waiting for Game 2 to make their moves.

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You can tease the Heat as a "bought" legacy, but I'll counter with the Spurs as a "tanked" legacy ;) (when they tanked and fortunately got the 1st pick, Tim Duncan).

Anyways, the buzz from beatwriters is that the Heat will start Rashard Lewis at PF (Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Chalmers). Battier is another option, but Shard should get the nod. The team has been very good with his resurgence, plus, the Heat have said that they're not waiting for Game 2 to make their moves.

Better than a bought dynasty.

Edited by keep it ONE hunnid

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Why does people consider the heat a bought dynasty? If they win this year they will have won 4 championships in 8 years. Those are pretty good numbers.

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I just got a SportsCenter notification saying Lebron stole the ball and dunked it in the first quarter.. for real? How is hat worth a notification?

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