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why i think brady is the greatest is because he's a coach's wet dream. guys like peyton, montana, rodgers, farve, marino, etc. you just get out of their way and let them do their thing and try not to irk them. not with brady. he's lockstep with coaches and teammates all week. the marriage with bill is only so great because brady is all in. he's winning the next game up on monday-friday. the coaches have his full attention and he's helping everyone on the team. some of them other greats are/were just going through the motions until sunday. 

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Hypothetically speaking, if Brady wins his 5th championship in 2 weeks is there anyone that is going to seriously try to make this debate?  Since the Manning side is basically saying you have to ignore championships, it shouldn't matter at all, correct?  I know dashoe's opinion on the matter, Brady could win 5 more titles and he would still not measure up to the great one and done Manning.

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58 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Could you guys let me know when it was decided that Super Bowl Championships >>>>>>>>>>>> Regular Season MVPs and First-Team All-Pro honors?

 

Since the very beginning of the NFL with Otto Graham. 

 

Because championships are always more important than regular season stats regardless of sport. Otherwise Wilt Chamberlain would be universally regarded as better than Michael Jordan. 

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1 hour ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Could you guys let me know when it was decided that Super Bowl Championships >>>>>>>>>>>> Regular Season MVPs and First-Team All-Pro honors?

Think Dan Marino or Charles Barkley would trade their MVP's for championship rings?

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1 hour ago, The Dirtdog said:

Think Dan Marino or Charles Barkley would trade their MVP's for championship rings?

 

I'm sure they'd say they would.

 

With that said, I think the more telling question to ask would be: Would Dan Marino trade his career for, say, Eli Manning's or Joe Flacco's careers?

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2 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

I'm sure they'd say they would.

 

With that said, I think the more telling question to ask would be: Would Dan Marino trade his career for, say, Eli Manning's or Joe Flacco's careers?

 

Flacco isn't even in the same ballpark as Eli when you look at their entire body of work (TD passes, yardage) even though his 2012 postseason is the greatest of all time for a QB along with 1989 Montana and he holds the record for most road playoff wins by a QB. 

 

As a Giants' fan I'd obviously take Eli's career over Marino's given the titles he has delivered despite his far inferior regular season stats. Still the only QB to surpass 4900 yards and win a SB in the same year (though I think Matt Ryan will match him this year). 

 

Marino after 1985 is similar to Brees after 2009 -- consistent video game numbers on mediocre non-playoff teams. 

 

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11 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Flacco isn't even in the same ballpark as Eli when you look at their entire body of work (TD passes, yardage) even though his 2012 postseason is the greatest of all time for a QB along with 1989 Montana and he holds the record for most road playoff wins by a QB. 

 

As a Giants' fan I'd obviously take Eli's career over Marino's given the titles he has delivered despite his far inferior regular season stats. Still the only QB to surpass 4900 yards and win a SB in the same year (though I think Matt Ryan will match him this year). 

 

Marino after 1985 is similar to Brees after 2009 -- consistent video game numbers on mediocre non-playoff teams. 

 

Flacco only has 10 playoff wins?  So Staubach/Aikman/Big Ben (11), Favre (13), Peyton/Elway/Bradshaw (14), Montana (16), and Brady (22) all have more.  

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13 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

Flacco only has 10 playoff wins?  So Staubach/Aikman/Big Ben (11), Favre (13), Peyton/Elway/Bradshaw (14), Montana (16), and Brady (22) all have more.  

 

You missed my emphasis on ROAD playoff wins, where Flacco is unmatched. 

 

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11 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

You missed my emphasis on ROAD playoff wins, where Flacco is unmatched. 

 

 

Flacco is a bum. He got hot once and got a ring. It can happen.

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16 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

Since the very beginning of the NFL with Otto Graham. 

 

Because championships are always more important than regular season stats regardless of sport. Otherwise Wilt Chamberlain would be universally regarded as better than Michael Jordan. 

 

 

Universally accepted is based on generational and recency bias, particularly when it comes to basketball which spends billions of dollars in  marketing todays players to sell merchandise to make them global brands.  Fact is most people today have never heard of nor seen Wilt Chamberlain play and those annual 100 greatest lists are just a way for sports writers and media types to promote and sell their brands.  There is a generation of basketball fans that don't think Jordan is the best (namely from my fathers and uncle generation). 

Ask kids who have never seen Jordan play and they will tell you Kobe is the greatest and they only know MJ from his athletic shoe brand; in another decade Lebron James will more than likely be the GOAT as Jordan fades from memory.

 

I will say MLB is unique in that is consistently promotes/markets and supports players from generations ago on a myth like level. Think about all of the great baseball movies that used game legends as part of the plot. Babe Ruth even to this day is referred to in a revered and larger than life way. MLB really makes the effort to market "tradition" and it's past.

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14 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

I'm sure they'd say they would.

 

With that said, I think the more telling question to ask would be: Would Dan Marino trade his career for, say, Eli Manning's or Joe Flacco's careers?

Dan Marino had a great career ..... I can't believe Dan would even consider something so stupid 

 

winning a Super Bowl does not define a career.

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14 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

I'm sure they'd say they would.

 

With that said, I think the more telling question to ask would be: Would Dan Marino trade his career for, say, Eli Manning's or Joe Flacco's careers?

 

I doubt it; guys like marino were so competitive there is no way he would want someone elses career. My uncle still thinks he is the best QB to ever play the game. 

Think about how Elway's legacy was bailed out by Terrell Davis insane running. Elway was in the twilight of his career. 

Imagine if Jim Kelley won those super bowls he wouldnt be a footnote in super bowl history.

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And the rings argument is dubious because Kurt Warner didnt make the HOF last year. The guy took 2  subpar  franchises rams+cards to the super bowl and came away with a ring. He played on such an elite level after a late start at the age of 28 and he was  on his best day 6'1 in cleats. So if the HOF voters knocked him given his insane post season accomplishments in such a shortened career span then maybe the rings are not the most important component.

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17 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Could you guys let me know when it was decided that Super Bowl Championships >>>>>>>>>>>> Regular Season MVPs and First-Team All-Pro honors?

 

Post season is the big money maker for the NFL and stars are made in the post season.  it's so ingrained into todays culture that people schedule their new tv purchases around the event. You win a super bowl and you instantly become a household name.

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 Yeah, all of Belichick's rings came with Brady, but all of Brady's rings came with Bill. Look at some of the moves today. Flea flicker, doubling Brown, smart blitzes, even taking the easy 3 points early. Season-wise, Belichick went from a WR offense with Welker to a TE one in under a year. He rotates in and out talent, year after year, but his defense and offense always show up in the playoffs. They never look unmotivated, overconfident, sloppy, etc. Not saying he's the reason for all the wins, but they are as inseparable.

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@joshua18 If Cassell was good in his prime to you maybe you should go look at his career stats... I consider being "good in your prime" at least 5 seasons of good football not 1...the dude literally had 1 good season... To me that's no where near good in your prime.... If you were to ask Cassell would you have rather played in NE or KC I guarantee 1,000,000% he would of said NE... And that's because they have the greatest NFL coach to ever live.  People act like Tom Brady was some hot commodity coming out of Michigan... The dude was a part time starter in COLLEGE!!!!  Now Tom Brady is the greatest QB to ever play and that doesn't happen without the man who is his HC.... The same man who was good enough to get that "1 good season in his career Matt Cassell " a 60 million dollar contract

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41 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

@joshua18 If Cassell was good in his prime to you maybe you should go look at his career stats... I consider being "good in your prime" at least 5 seasons of good football not 1...the dude literally had 1 good season... To me that's no where near good in your prime.... If you were to ask Cassell would you have rather played in NE or KC I guarantee 1,000,000% he would of said NE... And that's because they have the greatest NFL coach to ever live.  People act like Tom Brady was some hot commodity coming out of Michigan... The dude was a part time starter in COLLEGE!!!!  Now Tom Brady is the greatest QB to ever play and that doesn't happen without the man who is his HC.... The same man who was good enough to get that "1 good season in his career Matt Cassell " a 60 million dollar contract

 

Brady was a part time starter only bc the HC wanted Henson to play. 

 

My point was that Cassell from 2008-2011 wasn't garbage as many try to portray him. He was good in NE, and a Pro Bowler of a division champion in KC (like Alex Smith is this yr -- good, but not great, and definitely not garbage). 

 

Glad Brady's going to yet ANOTHER SB. 

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1 hour ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

How many does Peyton win in NE with Bill that's the question

 

Not many bc he'd never take the team friendly deals that allowed NE to maintain a good defense. Plus Peyton is a far inferior bad weather QB than Brady. 

 

Better question is how many Brady would have won in IND having Edge plus Harrison and Wayne for 10+ seasons in a dome environment.

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Two words:

* Chris Hogan

 

There are just countless names of nobodies this guy has made somebody on the way to super bowls. 

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1 minute ago, kyoun1e said:

Two words:

* Chris Hogan

 

There are just countless names of nobodies this guy has made somebody on the way to super bowls. 

 

 

Exactly Belicheck  arguably the GOAT makes names out of nobodies starting with Tom Brady

 

Where Pats offensive starters were drafted:
1st round: 1
2nd: 1
3rd: 1
4th: 1
5th: 1
6th: 1
7th: 1
Un: 4

— David Hale (@DavidHaleESPN) January 23, 2017

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