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22 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I've already provided my opinion that Manning is overall greater - I'm also bound to say I don't understand what you mean by "different levels" of cheating.  Maybe it would help to hear your explanation of why you believe illicitly tampering with football air-pressure constitutes lower-level cheating.

 

You're wrong. 

 

For thinking Manning is better than Brady you are permanently banned from providing any input regarding football (or fantasy football).

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12 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

I've already said my opinion on this. I don't consider it something that gives one player an advantage over another. For example, Jerry Rice said he used stickum. To me, that impacts the game more than a football a few PSI below what the league randomly says is acceptable. That's my opinion on it. I think it was just something Brady preferred and he didn't think it would be a big deal if he got, because in the rule book it blatantly says teams/players get a warning first, then a fine. 

 

Thank you.  I actually strongly disagree here - mainly because it isn't something that potentially benefits only one player (a la Rice's stickum) but actually a multitude of players - potentially the entire offense.  I specifically chose not to cite the fumbling study on the Patriots for the sake of not sidetracking the conversation, but it should be at least conceptually clear that illegally deflating footballs can affect multiple players on offense.

 

Furthermore, as I expect you know, Brady's four-game suspension was not solely due to his violation of an equipment rule.

Edited by BMcP
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Cheating is cheating. It doesnt matter if t was a low level cheating. You dont cheat in a game that banks you millions. The league is a dirty league - but I know If I got caught breaking rules at my workplace, I would've gotten fired. You lose creditibility, and thats exactly what Brady has done to his career. Cant be a goat but have that by your name.

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48 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Cheating is cheating. It doesnt matter if t was a low level cheating. You dont cheat in a game that banks you millions. The league is a dirty league - but I know If I got caught breaking rules at my workplace, I would've gotten fired. You lose creditibility, and thats exactly what Brady has done to his career. Cant be a goat but have that by your name.

 

Yeah, I hear Walmart has a strict no cheating policy .

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Deflated footballs to get an advantage over the opposing QB is like a heavyweight boxer fighting with 12 oz gloves when it suppose to be 18 oz so please let's call how it is

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14 hours ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

What else would you call someone who completely brushes off Brady's accomplishments because he got caught having the ball boys mess with air pressure? It's not because they don't agree with me - I think it's hard to take anyone seriously who says an asterisk needs to be placed by their names due to air pressure. Butthurt haters are people who provide nothing other than "he's a cheater" and leave it at that. 

 

I think most have agreed in here, myself included, that it's close between Manning and Brady. To me, 6 Super Bowl appearances and 4 wins...and how he played in all those Super Bowls, gives the nod to Brady. Had Manning performed better in the playoffs, I'd give him the nod. 

Looks as Bradys numbers in AFC games before Sunday 12 TD 12 ints passing rating 76.3 is that dominant lol ? team sport he doesn't plays multiple positions

 

I wouldnt call that great either. 

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1 hour ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Deflated footballs to get an advantage over the opposing QB is like a heavyweight boxer fighting with 12 oz gloves when it suppose to be 18 oz so please let's call how it is

They were on average 11.4 psi, should have been 12.5. But when you factor in the IGL, they magically return to 12.5.  Not quite the same as your 33% below minimum glove analogy, but I digress.

 

What were Big Ben's footballs measured at against the Giants?  That was cheating right?  Pittsburgh Cheeters.  How about the walkie talkies the Giants used?  Can we call them the New York Cheatants?  Pete Carroll cheated the IR with Sherman and twice with padded practices, how about the Seattle Cheathawks.  Broncos with the salary cap and Spygate 2.0, the Denver Cheatos.  Jets manipulated special teams footballs in 2009 and also tampered with Revis, New York Cheats.  Do you realize how petulant you sound screaming the word cheater over and over again, like you're playing Scrabble with your Nana?

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13 hours ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Where would you rank someone like Drew Brees who has similar stats but has never been convicted in the court of Goodell? Are you of the opinion that championships matter? To me, that's the most interesting point in this thread. Are titles important, or are they just a team accomplishment that we shouldn't be looking at when ranking these all time greats?

 

 

I think titles are relevant but i rail against those who use them as the absolute measure and don't look at the actual career arc of a guy game in and game out.  

For example people knock Brees for having a one ring and not many post season accomplishments yet everyone knows the Saints have historically had defenses that were in the bottom of the league  when he was lighting it up,

Peyton played on Colts teams that had miserable defenses and Brady has had the benefit of playing with better ranked defenses (often in the top 10) than either peyton or brees  during his career which is why the rings argument is not the trump card for me. You need a good defense to get you through the post season and win a superbowl and Brady has always had them and the Pats never won a SB with him passing lights out and putting up all types of yards-tds etc. . Thats why i discount the SB rings argument that so many Brady lovers cling too. Do I need to even mention he has played for a single briliant HC his entire career too

 

PEYTON is the GOAT

Edited by dashoe

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4 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

I think titles are relevant but i rail against those who use them as the absolute measure and don't look at the actual career arc of a guy game in and game out.  

For example people knock Brees for having a one ring and not many post season accomplishments yet everyone knows the Saints have historically had defenses that were in the bottom of the league  when he was lighting it up,

Peyton played on Colts teams that had miserable defenses and Brady has had the benefit of playing with better ranked defenses (often in the top 10) than either peyton or brees  during his career which is why the rings argument is not the trump card for me. You need a good defense to get you through the post season and win a superbowl and Brady has always had them and the Pats never won a SB with him passing lights out and putting up all types of yards-tds etc. . Thats why i discount the SB rings argument that so many Brady lovers cling too. Do I need to even mention he has played for a single briliant HC his entire career too

 

PEYTON is the GOAT

If you're completely discounting rings...then Marino is the GOAT when it comes to pocket passers.

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2 minutes ago, psygolf said:

If you're completely discounting rings...then Marino is the GOAT when it comes to pocket passers.

 

 

My uncle agrees with you we debate it all the time and he doesnt think anyone can touch Marino. Says Peyton would be his water boy and Brady would carry his jock strap (actually said couldnt carry his jock strap but I like would carry better)

Edited by dashoe
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4 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

My uncle agrees with you we debate it all the time and he doesnt think anyone can touch Marino. Says Peyton would be his water boy and Brady would carry his jock strap (actually said couldnt carry his jock strap but I like would carry better)

LOL...ur uncle is a funny guy

But Marino wasn't even the best qb from his draft class. 

That honor belongs to a baseball player

John_Elway_Oneonta_wuwz2mrn_i0vxjnrr.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

LOL...ur uncle is a funny guy

But Marino wasn't even the best qb from his draft class. 

That honor belongs to a baseball player

John_Elway_Oneonta_wuwz2mrn_i0vxjnrr.jpg

Nooooooooo.

 

There was only one QB that had defenses (including 85 bears) literally crapping in their pants on every play back then.

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16 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

My uncle agrees with you we debate it all the time and he doesnt think anyone can touch Marino. Says Peyton would be his water boy and Brady would carry his jock strap (actually said couldnt carry his jock strap but I like would carry better)

Too many rule changes to argue against Marino, unless you do use the "ring argument."

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1 minute ago, psygolf said:

Nooooooooo.

 

There was only one QB that had defenses (including 85 bears) literally crapping in their pants on every play back then.

 

 

Other than pure stats- which were accumulated mostly in games that didn't matter for Marino, on teams that had little to no offensive balance-  I think it's an easy call which was the better overall qb.  

 

Elway vs. Montana....I'll give it to Joe Cool.    More titles, big stats, and a longer dynasty impact. 

Interesting tidbit-  Bill Walsh tried to trade Montana for the rights to draft Elway. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

 

Other than pure stats- which were accumulated mostly in games that didn't matter for Marino, on teams that had little to no offensive balance-  I think it's an easy call which was the better overall qb.  

 

 

Sounds like Brees.  

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4 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

 

Other than pure stats- which were accumulated mostly in games that didn't matter for Marino, on teams that had little to no offensive balance-  I think it's an easy call which was the better overall qb.  

 

Elway vs. Montana....I'll give it to Joe Cool.    More titles, big stats, and a longer dynasty impact. 

Interesting tidbit-  Bill Walsh tried to trade Montana for the rights to draft Elway. 

 

 

 

 

Without TDavis...Elway = Rivers

:-P

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Just now, psygolf said:

Without TDavis...Elway = Rivers

:-P

 

Nope, Terrible parallel Psy.   LOL

Rivers' teams fold when it matters the most, and he had LT

Elway is captain comeback.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

Nope, Terrible parallel Psy.   LOL

Rivers' teams fold when it matters the most, and he had LT

Elway is captain comeback.  

 

Ok Cutler then.

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pats defense rank by least amount of total pts allowed/ppg

 

2016- #1
2014-  #8
2011-  #15
2007-  #4
2004- #3
2003- #1
2001- #6

 

yeah right Brady really carried his teams to the playoffs. . . . bullcrap,. We can give him 2011 and say he took his team to the SB but. . .he lost that one didnt he?

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3 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

Did not mean it as a proper noun.  Let me rephrase-   "Capt Clutch"

 

Elway has 35 fourth quarter comebacks

#2 overall "most clutch" qb. 

 

Bested only by Joe Cool

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1281624-the-top-10-clutch-quarterbacks-of-all-time

 

 

 

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"John Elway could be considered by some as the greatest clutch quarterback ever. He led the Broncos to a remarkable 35 fourth quarter comebacks, which is only bested by Dan Marino."

 

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