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Just some facts, since lately this thread lacks any...

 

In Tom Brady's last 16 games he has thrown 35 touchdowns, 5 interceptions and has a passer rating of 107.2.

 

Tom Brady has 52 career games with at least 3 TD passes and no INTs, passing Peyton Manning (51) for the most such performances in NFL history.

 

Tom Brady now holds the record for most passing yards in a game by a QB 40 years or older.

 

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Wanted to bump this in light of Manning being confirmed a cheater. Manning truthers still taking him?

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25 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

Wanted to bump this in light of Manning being confirmed a cheater. Manning truthers still taking him?

 

Doesnt count if he hasnt been caught with a pee test or cream or needle in his butt.

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2 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

Wanted to bump this in light of Manning being confirmed a cheater. Manning truthers still taking him?

 

Post a link so people know what you’re even talking about how about

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Al Jazeera lmao 

 

 

what does buzzfeed or vice have to say about the situation ???

Edited by lolcopter

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11 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Doesnt count if he hasnt been caught with a pee test or cream or needle in his butt.

Not surprised. Also sexually harassed people at Tennessee. Broncos should have their sb50 win stripped tbh 

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9 hours ago, lolcopter said:

Al Jazeera lmao 

 

 

what does buzzfeed or vice have to say about the situation ???

 

LOL. Just LOL.

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5 minutes ago, Panthers8912 said:

Not surprised. Also sexually harassed people at Tennessee. Broncos should have their sb50 win stripped tbh 

 

Haha I don't think that. 

 

But people in this thread use Brady 'cheating' as a means to put Manning ahead of him. So now that they are both cheaters I feel like the Manning truthers have zero case.

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How many championships would Peyton Manning have won if his coach was Bill Belichick?  15?

 

There's your answer.

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45 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Haha I don't think that. 

 

But people in this thread use Brady 'cheating' as a means to put Manning ahead of him. So now that they are both cheaters I feel like the Manning truthers have zero case.

 

 

Not me, no cares about spygate. I have always maintained Brady NEEDED Hoodie to be successful but Hoodie didnt neccessarily need Brady  because there was some measureable success with Bledsoe and the QB that stepped in the year Brady was injured. not to mention Hoodies track record prior to being a HC with NE. I don't think anyone with a non fanboy brain will challenge the theory that Hoodie would have won some SB's without Brady but will struggle with the theory that Brady would have won titles without hoodie.

 

Peyton dominated as a QB with garbage teams and multiple coaches who needed him.

Case closed.:P

Edited by dashoe
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13 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

Wanted to bump this in light of Manning being confirmed a cheater. Manning truthers still taking him?

 

Al Jazeera and Patriots fans thinks somehow Peyton cheated.  Sounds legit.

Edited by Iron-cock

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14 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

Wanted to bump this in light of Manning being confirmed a cheater. Manning truthers still taking him?

Taking him?  Didn't he retire 3 years ago?

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2 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Not me, no cares about spygate. I have always maintained Brady NEEDED Hoodie to be successful but Hoodie didnt neccessarily need Brady  because there was some measureable success with Bledsoe and the QB that stepped in the year Brady was injured. not to mention Hoodies track record prior to being a HC with NE. I don't think anyone with a non fanboy brain will challenge the theory that Hoodie would have won some SB's without Brady but will struggle with the theory that Brady would have won titles without hoodie.

 

Peyton dominated as a QB with garbage teams and multiple coaches who needed him.

Case closed.:P

 

I'll challenge it and I'm not a fan boy, I just use logic and reason.

 

Hoodie didn't need Brady? Really? Come on.

 

Hoodie's career record without Brady as his starting QB is 54-63, with only 1 playoff win.

 

Before Brady started in week 3 of the 2001 season it was 41-57.

 

That's 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 with the Browns in 5 seasons and 5-11 in his first season with the Partriots and 0-2 the second season before Brady actually started a game. Hoodie did go 10-5 without Brady in 2008 (Brady started and got hurt week 1), and 3-1 without Brady in 2016 during the suspension.

 

To say he didn't need Brady is ridiculous, plain and simple. They needed each other. Hoodie wouldn't have 5 SB wins as a head coach without Brady, and Brady wouldn't have 5 without Hoodie.

 

It's amazing how much people discount Brady even to this day, despite all he's accomplished, all because he has hoodie as a coach. Apparently any QB could have won those Super Bowls? Then why didn't they win the SB the year Brady was out? Why didn't they make the playoffs that year?

 

As far as Peyton Manning is concerned. He also had alot more to work with on the offensive side of the ball as far as talent was concerned. Marshal Faulk, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison to name a few. That's through most of his career. Those are Hall of Fame talents.

 

Brady's had what Moss for a few seasons and Gronk? That are or will be in the Hall of Fame.

 

Edelman and Welker were solid but they're not elite, hall of fame type talents. Brady never had an elite RB other than Corey Dillon but that was at the end of his career. For that matter he only got over 1000 yards in 1 of 3 seasons with the Patriots.

 

Brady did have better defenses though so he had the advantage there,  however Brady is more clutch on the big stage than Manning was so there's also that.

 

Either way, like who you want to like and all but it's not as cut and dry as you'd like to make it seem.

 

 

Edited by Shake
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A better argument is what would happen if you swapped Manning and Brady?

 

I think Patriots would have similar success. I mean, it’s hard to have more success. However, the Broncos would not be as good.

 

That being said we can play hypotheticals all day. I don’t particularly like the Patriots but Brady is better due to his success when it matters. Sure he was surrounded by a better cast but I always believe in a players ability to lift teammates and Brady has been a great model of that. His longitivity is a testamate to his insane competitive nature and discipline and you can see it rubs off.

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Even though Manning won us (Denver) a Super Bowl, Tom Brady is still #1.

 

The question is who is number #2.  Montana, Manning, Elway, etc.  Brees & Rodgers with another Super Bowl win deserve consideration... 

 

Super Bowl wins is the #1 criteria (for ranking QB HoF’ers)

 

#2 is other awards/recognition (Pro bowl appearances, etc.)

#3 is TD/INT ratio

#4 Wins/Losses

#5 is stat records

#6 years played

 

 

All that’s arguable.  I’m probably higher on TD/INT than most, and lower on stat records.  The numbers can also hurt them in the rankings... Eli Manning has the Rings but little else.  I wouldn’t put him in the HoF for example.

 

We can’t separate Brady + Belichick and it’s pointless to try.  I think Brady being perennially underpaid has been a huge part of NE’s success.  Credit to Belichick as GM convincing players to favor winning over their paycheck. 

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Is this really a discussion? Brady is clearly the GOAT. It's not even up for debate anywhere. Those conversations are over.

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40 minutes ago, South Carolina said:

Is this really a discussion? Brady is clearly the GOAT. It's not even up for debate anywhere. Those conversations are over.

Um, Montana never lost a Superbowl.  

 

Brady was one bad 2nd and goal play call and one historic second half collapse away from losing five straight Superbowls and being the Northeast's answer to Jim Kelly.

 

Let the debate rage on.

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13 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Um, Montana never lost a Superbowl.  

 

Brady was one bad 2nd and goal play call and one historic second half collapse away from losing five straight Superbowls and being the Northeast's answer to Jim Kelly.

 

Let the debate rage on.

 

So? Montana didn't have near the career Brady still has. It's not even close. Where's the debate? The facts are facts. 

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And I don't think you can discount longevity. Brady has stayed pretty healthy his entire career. He wasn't the reason they lost that Superbowl last year. 

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Um, Montana never lost a Superbowl.  

 

Brady was one bad 2nd and goal play call and one historic second half collapse away from losing five straight Superbowls and being the Northeast's answer to Jim Kelly.

 

Let the debate rage on.

 

Easier not to lose when you only take half as many shots. Brady ended the GOAT QB discussion when he brought NE from 10 down in the 4th vs the Legion of Boom in the SB. 

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2 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

Easier not to lose when you only take half as many shots. Brady ended the GOAT QB discussion when he brought NE from 10 down in the 4th vs the Legion of Boom in the SB. 

Pretty sure Malcom Butler won that Superbowl.  5-3 in SBs is a nice record.  4-0 is better.  It's Montana for me.

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10 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Pretty sure Malcom Butler won that Superbowl.  5-3 in SBs is a nice record.  4-0 is better.  It's Montana for me.

 

Butler threw the TD passes that brought them back from a 10 pt deficit and won SB MVP? Tell me more. 

 

And yes, I actually saw all 4 of Montana's SB's. He's still #2 all-time IMO.

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Just now, joshua18 said:

 

Butler threw the TD passes that brought them back from a 10 pt deficit and won SB MVP? Tell me more. 

 

And yes, I actually saw all 4 of Montana's SB's. He's still #2 all-time IMO.

I did, too.  That's why I have Montana in the top spot.

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10 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Pretty sure Malcom Butler won that Superbowl.  5-3 in SBs is a nice record.  4-0 is better.  It's Montana for me.

 

4-0 being better than 5-3 is a ridculous notion.

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20 hours ago, Shake said:

 

I'll challenge it and I'm not a fan boy, I just use logic and reason.

 

Hoodie didn't need Brady? Really? Come on.

 

Hoodie's career record without Brady as his starting QB is 54-63, with only 1 playoff win.

 

Before Brady started in week 3 of the 2001 season it was 41-57.

 

That's 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11 with the Browns in 5 seasons and 5-11 in his first season with the Partriots and 0-2 the second season before Brady actually started a game. Hoodie did go 10-5 without Brady in 2008 (Brady started and got hurt week 1), and 3-1 without Brady in 2016 during the suspension.

 

To say he didn't need Brady is ridiculous, plain and simple. They needed each other. Hoodie wouldn't have 5 SB wins as a head coach without Brady, and Brady wouldn't have 5 without Hoodie.

 

It's amazing how much people discount Brady even to this day, despite all he's accomplished, all because he has hoodie as a coach. Apparently any QB could have won those Super Bowls? Then why didn't they win the SB the year Brady was out? Why didn't they make the playoffs that year?

 

As far as Peyton Manning is concerned. He also had alot more to work with on the offensive side of the ball as far as talent was concerned. Marshal Faulk, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison to name a few. That's through most of his career. Those are Hall of Fame talents.

 

Brady's had what Moss for a few seasons and Gronk? That are or will be in the Hall of Fame.

 

Edelman and Welker were solid but they're not elite, hall of fame type talents. Brady never had an elite RB other than Corey Dillon but that was at the end of his career. For that matter he only got over 1000 yards in 1 of 3 seasons with the Patriots.

 

Brady did have better defenses though so he had the advantage there,  however Brady is more clutch on the big stage than Manning was so there's also that.

 

Either way, like who you want to like and all but it's not as cut and dry as you'd like to make it seem.

 

 

 

Those career stats are out of context.

Need to use numbers where BB is BOTH head coach and GM.  When bad GMs aren't getting you players you need to fit your scheme, it will show in your record.

 

Brady always had a top 5 offensive line and never won a Super Bowl without a top 5 defense.  Manning never had either of those in INDY.  He took 3 win teams deep into the playoffs every year.

 

Only one of these two QBs would have been successful as a 1999 Cleveland Brown, and it's not Tom Brady.

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