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Is the troll the one pushing the bogus HGH story or the one saying the HGH is a red herring in this whole debate?

 

Peyton Manning was the better quarterback, Brady played for a more successful team.  Joe Montana was better than both of them.

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On 6/7/2018 at 4:52 PM, SharkSwimmer said:

Is the troll the one pushing the bogus HGH story or the one saying the HGH is a red herring in this whole debate?

 

Peyton Manning was the better quarterback, Brady played for a more successful team.  Joe Montana was better than both of them.

 

I agree with the assessment until the Montana comment. Joe montana i can't comment on because aside from some film I never followed his career, it would be the equivalent of sayin gJohnny Unitas or Roger Starbauch to me.

Oddly I will say having an Uncle who was a die hard Miami fan I am severely biasd towards the debate that Dan Marino was the greatest QB to never win a SB ring even though i didnt watch his games and that makes him better than Brady to me.:D

Edited by dashoe

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I watched most of Montana's games live.  Dude was an absolute assassin.  Brady is really good, but he's not Montana.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I watched most of Montana's games live.  Dude was an absolute assassin.  Brady is really good, but he's not Montana.

 

He's better than Montana, but not by much. The 1989 and 1990 Montana is probably only equaled by 2007 Brady, but Brady has had several more elite years in his career than Montana did. 

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2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I watched most of Montana's games live.  Dude was an absolute assassin.  Brady is really good, but he's not Montana.

 

I did some more research on Montana however i came across  a story of a teammate of his who did the most craziest thing ever heard of to keep playin football he had his finger amputated!!!!! WTF were these dudes thinking back then?

if Montana was playing with guy like this he must have been a badass too!

 

Quote

1986

Aug. 2: In April, doctors looked at the badly damaged finger on Ronnie Lott's left hand and gave him two choices. They could operate, graft a bone from the wrist, insert a pin and have him wear a cast for the next eight weeks. Or they could amputate just above the first joint. Lott made what coaches like to call "the football decision." He told them to cut off the end of his finger. It was a simple procedure. He held out his hand, they numbed it and snipped off the finger tip and put his hand in a cast. After three weeks he went back to have the cast removed. The doctor took off the last dressing. "What do you think?" he asked. Lott couldn't answer. He was staring at a stub. Instead of a fingernail there was only a whitish, rounded stump. "The ugliest thing I've ever seen," Lott says. "I was trying to laugh it off, but I felt sick. I tried to stand up, but I broke into a cold sweat. It was just a total shock. I thought, 'Oh, man, I should have had the pin put in.' " Lott has had worse injuries, but emotionally this one was different. It made him feel that football was biting off bits and pieces of him, of everyone who plays. And no one seems to care. "We are losing the compassionate side of sports," he says. "We're becoming gladiators. If I ever become a coach, I hope I never lose sight of the fact that players are people. They feel, they have emotions. I could have all of Eddie DeBartolo's corporations and it isn't going to buy me a new finger. It has given me a new perspective on life.

"I don't think about it like some people think about it because I grew up in that environment where you saw guys in the military give up a lot more," Lott said. "Or better yet, some of my heroes that played professional football. Larry Wilson played with two broken wrists. Jack Youngblood played with a broken leg. So you had guys that have made sacrifices."

Lott said the influence of players such as Wilson and Youngblood is what spurred him to play with the injury despite doctors saying he couldn't.

"The pysche of me is like 'Larry Wilson played, Jack Youngblood played, these guys played.' It's not being crazy, it's just the capacity of what you could do," Lott said.

 

Edited by dashoe
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1 minute ago, lolcopter said:

How many times has Brady thrown 55 TDs in a single season?

 

Including playoffs, once. 

 

Better question: How many times did he throw pick-sixes in the Super Bowl?

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9 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

I did some more research on Montana however i came across  a story of a teammate of his who did the most craziest thing ever heard of to keep playin football he had his finger amputated!!!!! WTF were these dudes thinking back then?

if Montana was playing with guy like this he must have been a badass too!

 

 

 

Pretty well known story. 

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2 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Pretty well known story. 

 

Maybe it was well known just like I am sure there are some very well known Knute Rockne stories out there :P

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Never mind that Vanderjagt actually has a better career FG% than Vinatieri does. I swear some of these “arguments” are just bad attempts at trolling.

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24 minutes ago, Dislimb said:

Never mind that Vanderjagt actually has a better career FG% than Vinatieri does. I swear some of these “arguments” are just bad attempts at trolling.

 

Much better. In fact, its not even close. Most people don't know that Vinatieri wasn't a very good kicker at New England. Vanderjagt averaged 87.5% compared to Vinatieri's 81.9%. Vanderjagt's % is the same as Gostkowski's.

 

But since Vinatieri was freakishly accurate in big games, that's all that people remember.

 

 

 

 

You have to admit though, that vanderjagt miss was horrible. Almost as bad as that billy cundiff miss against the Patriots:

 

 

 

Edited by predator_05
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I remember that game.  Horrible.  Was that Vanderjagoff's last career kick?

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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I remember that game.  Horrible.  Was that Vanderjagoff's last career kick?

 

Last kick with the colts.

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On 6/9/2018 at 9:48 PM, SharkSwimmer said:

I watched most of Montana's games live.  Dude was an absolute assassin.  Brady is really good, but he's not Montana.

 

this.

 

and that's a testament to Joe's icy cool brilliance - Brady is #2 in my book, but he is not on #16's level.  no one is/was.

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23 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

this.

 

and that's a testament to Joe's icy cool brilliance - Brady is #2 in my book, but he is not on #16's level.  no one is/was.

 

Not true. And yes, I watched them both at their peak. Brady simply has had more dominant seasons than Joe Cool. 

 

Still remember Niner fans trolling Steve Young saying "8 + 8 < 16" after Montana was traded -- one of the sickest burns ever.

 

I would take Montana over Peyton without hesitation, largely because Peyton's regular season dominance never consistently translated to the playoffs despite all the indoor games he played in. Of the three QBs, Brady had easily the least surrounding talent on offense. 

 

Edited by joshua18
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9 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Not true. And yes, I watched them both at their peak. Brady simply has had more dominant seasons than Joe Cool. 

 

Still remember Niner fans trolling Steve Young saying "8 + 8 < 16" after Montana was traded -- one of the sickest burns ever.

 

I would take Montana over Peyton without hesitation. 

 

 

Brady certainly has the gaudier stats, that's a given ... but for pure talent and command of his game, it's still Joe for me.  interesting that different eras of the NYGs were their respective kryptonite, so to speak.

 

that being said, if Joe were operating in this era, he'd be Brees-like,  with a few more rings than Drew, of course.

 

i will respectfully agree to disagree up on this one.  they remain the top 2 for me, though, without question.

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On 6/23/2018 at 3:41 PM, Dislimb said:

Never mind that Vanderjagt actually has a better career FG% than Vinatieri does. I swear some of these “arguments” are just bad attempts at trolling.

People also doesn't remember Vinatieri's misses.  He missed 2 fgs in the superbowl against the Panthers.

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I love when people use the system QB angle to diminish Brady and then laud Montana. Montana had the greatest WR of all time and was in the best passing system of that era. I'm not going to try and hate on Montana. I think he's top 5 all time. But there might not have been a better time, place and system for a QB to succeed than that. Multiple HOF skill position players and the genesis of the Bill Walsh west coast offense. They didn't miss a beat when Montana left. 

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57 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

I love when people use the system QB angle to diminish Brady and then laud Montana. Montana had the greatest WR of all time and was in the best passing system of that era. I'm not going to try and hate on Montana. I think he's top 5 all time. But there might not have been a better time, place and system for a QB to succeed than that. Multiple HOF skill position players and the genesis of the Bill Walsh west coast offense. They didn't miss a beat when Montana left. 

 

Montana won two Super Bowls prior to Rice arriving (Rice was a rookie in '85) ... matter of fact, some say that the '84 team was their greatest ever (18-1).

 

but, yeah ... keep pushing the Rice narrative - it's adorable. 

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On June 22, 2018 at 7:40 PM, predator_05 said:

...

 

6j0kn4.jpg

never mind switching their kickers you switch john kasay out with literally any other kicker and the pats don't get to start their drive at the 40, probably lose to the panthers 

 

 

yes i still cannot believe this dude kicked the ball out of bounds 

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9 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

Montana won two Super Bowls prior to Rice arriving (Rice was a rookie in '85) ... matter of fact, some say that the '84 team was their greatest ever (18-1).

 

but, yeah ... keep pushing the Rice narrative - it's adorable. 

But the point you ignored, about Bill Walsh's offense, is completely accurate. Before Montana, Walsh's system turned some of the worst QBs in the game to stars (look up these QBs' stat differentials with and without Walsh). Montana was just the first to be good enough for Walsh's offense to take him from good to legend, instead of from trash to temporary star.

Edited by OBJfor6
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