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11 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

Montana won two Super Bowls prior to Rice arriving (Rice was a rookie in '85) ... matter of fact, some say that the '84 team was their greatest ever (18-1).

 

but, yeah ... keep pushing the Rice narrative - it's adorable. 

 

I think his point was just that you can't call TB a system QB and ignore the fact that Montana is as well. 

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6 minutes ago, OBJfor6 said:

But the point you ignored, about Bill Walsh's offense, is completely accurate. Before Montana, Walsh's system turned some of the worst QBs in the game to stars (look up these QBs' stat differentials with and without Walsh). Montana was just the first to be good enough for Walsh's offense to take him from good to legend, instead of from trash to star.

 

the big point i adressed was the fallacy that Rice was mainly responsible for Joe's success ... those two seasons he won the Super Bowl without Rice ('81/'84) his weapons were Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Earl Cooper, Wendell Tyler, Lenville Elliot, Bill Ring ... 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

Montana won two Super Bowls prior to Rice arriving (Rice was a rookie in '85) ... matter of fact, some say that the '84 team was their greatest ever (18-1).

 

but, yeah ... keep pushing the Rice narrative - it's adorable. 

 

I never said Montana wasn't great or that he played with Rice his whole career. In fact I said Montana was top 5 (probably #2-3 on my list) so I don't get the hyper-defensiveness. I'm just saying I think it's weird when someones use the "system QB" angle to diminish Brady and then puts Montana ahead of him. Montana was in a great system.

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5 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

I never said Montana wasn't great or that he played with Rice his whole career. In fact I said Montana was top 5 (probably #2-3 on my list) so I don't get the hyper-defensiveness. I'm just saying I think it's weird when someones use the "system QB" angle to diminish Brady and then puts Montana ahead of him. Montana was in a great system.

 

you said Joe had the benefit of "the greatest WR of all time" - which is not telling the whole story - Joe won 2 without him. 

 

and, for the record, i never said/believed that Brady is/was a "system" product - that cat worked his butt off to be the greatest of his generation, and i think he would've had success wherever he went.  

 

again, clear cut #2 all-time, imo ... right behind Montana. 

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54 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

you said Joe had the benefit of "the greatest WR of all time"

 

His statement was categorically true and universally agreed upon. You're swinging wildly at strawmen here and it's a little sad.

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13 minutes ago, Roto4500 said:

 

His statement was categorically true and universally agreed upon. You're swinging wildly at strawmen here and it's a little sad.

 

pointing out that Joe won 2 Super Bowls without the services of Rice is swinging wildly?

 

:lol:

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58 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

pointing out that Joe won 2 Super Bowls without the services of Rice is swinging wildly?

 

:lol:

 

...as in, it only tangentially relates to what I wrote.  Having the greatest WR of all time for "only" half his career doesn't diminish my point. Montana was in a great spot to succeed as we continued to see with Young after him. Hell, even Steve Bono was good in SF.   He is still one of the all-time greats. Nobody is saying otherwise.

 

And you forgot to include Roger Craig on the 84 team.

 

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39 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

...as in, it only tangentially relates to what I wrote.  Having the greatest WR of all time for "only" half his career doesn't diminish my point. Montana was in a great spot to succeed as we continued to see with Young after him. Hell, even Steve Bono was good in SF.   He is still one of the all-time greats. Nobody is saying otherwise.

 

And you forgot to include Roger Craig on the 84 team.

 

 

OMFG -  I FORGOT CRAIG???

 

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!!

Young was considered a generational talent.  not his fault he ran into the Johnson era Cowboys.  horrible analogy. 

 

Bono?  LMMFAO - please be better than that. 

 

howzabout Joe operating on a busted elbow and damn near taking the friggin' Chiefs to the Super Bowl? do we chalk that up to Walsh as well?

 

shame that all the other teams passed on Rice in '85 ... the fact that he slid to the reigning SB champs should not diminish Montana in any way, nor should it be categorized as anything but an organization pulling the carpet out from the other teams. 

 

OMFG - I FORGOT CRAIG?

 

how the mutha fudge can i sleep tonight after such an egregious error.?

 

HOW?

 

smdh B)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, pastorofmuppets2 said:

 

OMFG -  I FORGOT CRAIG???

 

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!!

 

Young was considered a generational talent.  not his fault he ran into the Johnson era Cowboys.  horrible analogy. 

 

Bono?  LMMFAO - please be better than that. 

 

howzabout Joe operating on a busted elbow and damn near taking the friggin' Chiefs to the Super Bowl? do we chalk that up to Walsh as well?

 

shame that all the other teams passed on Rice in '85 ... the fact that he slid to the reigning SB champs should not diminish Montana in any way, nor should it be categorized as anything but an organization pulling the carpet out from the other teams. 

 

OMFG - I FORGOT CRAIG?

 

how the mutha fudge can i sleep tonight after such an egregious error.?

 

HOW?

 

smdh B)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I touched a nerve. :lol:

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18 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

I guess I touched a nerve. :lol:

 

:lol:

 

akin to root canal sans lidocaine. 

 

cheers.  

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Roger Craig’s 1985 season is still one of the GOAT RB single seasons ever IMO. Such versatility and extremely efficient.

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1 hour ago, Dislimb said:

Roger Craig’s 1985 season is still one of the GOAT RB single seasons ever IMO. Such versatility and extremely efficient.

 

His 1988 season where he won OPOY was even better. Criminal that he's not in the HOF. The true predecessor of David Johnson.

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8 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

His 1988 season where he won OPOY was even better. Criminal that he's not in the HOF. The true predecessor of David Johnson.

 

i think you have to go back a decade or so earlier, to the mid-70s, and Chuck Foreman.  he was the granddaddy of these heavy usage hybrid RBs.  

 

his 1975 season in particular ... in 14 games he had:

 

1,070 rushing yards with 13 TDs

 

a league leading 73 receptions for another 700 yards, and 9 TDs through the air.  

 

so 1,700+ total yds. and 22 TDs in 14 games.  matter of fact, he was hit in the eye with a snowball up at Buffalo during the last game of the regular season, and sat out a great deal of the second half ... he missed the rushing title by a handful of yards to Jim Otis (Cardinals) as a result.  had he not been injured he would've pulled off the incredible triple crown of rushing title, most TDs, most receptions. 

 

he scored TDs both rushing and receiving in 5 games that year, a record that still stands. 

 

now, he wasn't as powerful or explosive as Craig or DJ ... he was more of a quick and elusive cat, always appeared to be gliding .... so style wise the guys you mentioned differ, but ol' #44 was the trailblazer.

 

/hijack.  

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36 minutes ago, cashvillesent said:

So yeah ummm this thread aged well.

 

There are still people that will say Manning just because they hate the Pats.

 

This was an argument three Super Bowls ago, not anymore.

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1 hour ago, bhawks489 said:

Was Brady even touched in the af. Champ game? Ridiculous protection 

He was getting rid of the ball quickly. It was night and day the difference between him and Mahomes. When Mahomes got pressure, he panicked. Brady hit his WRs before the pressure even really got to him. Yes, the protection was really good most of the game but Brady did a great job working the pressure whenever there was any threat of it.

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3 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

There are still people that will say Manning just because they hate the Pats.

 

This was an argument three Super Bowls ago, not anymore.

 

Nope I still stick by Manning, the man changed the position starting his rookie year and succeeded with 2 different teams had multiple coaches, instability and  returned from a broken neck when he was written off by the world. 

Brady had who I consider the Greatest coach in the NFL his entire career (Some would argue Walsh).

Hoodie has put together a WINNING ORGANIZATION top to bottom and all Brady had to do was perform in Hoodies system; that put him in the best position to win every year. 

The Pats are the GOAT in terms of dynastic football but not the QB. Manning gets that honor by me

 

The majority like to focus on SB rings or stats; I prefer to focus on the men throwing the ball.

 

All of the Brady Cabana Boys can save their outrage and disparaging comments because you will never change my perspective. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Gohawks said:

He was getting rid of the ball quickly. It was night and day the difference between him and Mahomes. When Mahomes got pressure, he panicked. Brady hit his WRs before the pressure even really got to him. Yes, the protection was really good most of the game but Brady did a great job working the pressure whenever there was any threat of it.

 

Mahommes is young and he was looking for the big play holding onto the ball too long. Brady did have undeniable damn near perfect pocket protection.  As usual KC defense failed this team and Pats defense did their job by slowing down arguable the most talented offense in the NFL

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3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Nope I still stick by Manning, the man changed the position starting his rookie year and succeeded with 2 different teams had multiple coaches, instability and  returned from a broken neck when he was written off by the world. 

Brady had who I consider the Greatest coach in the NFL his entire career (Some would argue Walsh).

Hoodie has put together a WINNING ORGANIZATION top to bottom and all Brady had to do was perform in Hoodies system; that put him in the best position to win every year. 

The Pats are the GOAT in terms of dynastic football but not the QB. Manning gets that honor by me

 

The majority like to focus on SB rings or stats; I prefer to focus on the men throwing the ball.

 

All of the Brady Cabana Boys can save their outrage and disparaging comments because you will never change my perspective. :lol:

 

Brady IS the system. And he's been better than Peyton for at least a decade.

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3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Nope I still stick by Manning, the man changed the position starting his rookie year and succeeded with 2 different teams had multiple coaches, instability and  returned from a broken neck when he was written off by the world. 

Brady had who I consider the Greatest coach in the NFL his entire career (Some would argue Walsh).

Hoodie has put together a WINNING ORGANIZATION top to bottom and all Brady had to do was perform in Hoodies system; that put him in the best position to win every year. 

The Pats are the GOAT in terms of dynastic football but not the QB. Manning gets that honor by me

 

The majority like to focus on SB rings or stats; I prefer to focus on the men throwing the ball.

 

All of the Brady Cabana Boys can save their outrage and disparaging comments because you will never change my perspective. :lol:

 

No need to insult those who label Brady as GOAT as “fanboys”. That’s just silly and condescending.

 

Please don’t make it seem like Manning played in multiple teams/coaches/schemes. Manning brought his offense and terminology with him when he went to Denver so the continuity was there for him.

 

Some would say that Manning had better supporting cast around him at all times. If want a fantasy QB who can pile up stats, give me Manning. If I have 2 minutes to win the game in the biggest of games in football conditions, give me Tom Brady.

 

And the narrative that Bill makes Brady because of the “system” is wrong because it can’t be proven. It’s just something that haters try to cling to.

 

Honestly it’s not much of a debate anymore.

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3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Nope I still stick by Manning, the man changed the position starting his rookie year and succeeded with 2 different teams had multiple coaches, instability and  returned from a broken neck when he was written off by the world. 

Brady had who I consider the Greatest coach in the NFL his entire career (Some would argue Walsh).

Hoodie has put together a WINNING ORGANIZATION top to bottom and all Brady had to do was perform in Hoodies system; that put him in the best position to win every year. 

The Pats are the GOAT in terms of dynastic football but not the QB. Manning gets that honor by me

 

The majority like to focus on SB rings or stats; I prefer to focus on the men throwing the ball.

 

All of the Brady Cabana Boys can save their outrage and disparaging comments because you will never change my perspective. :lol:

 

Well, you are wrong. Not sure what to tell you 

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4 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Nope I still stick by Manning, the man changed the position starting his rookie year and succeeded with 2 different teams had multiple coaches, instability and  returned from a broken neck when he was written off by the world. 

Brady had who I consider the Greatest coach in the NFL his entire career (Some would argue Walsh).

Hoodie has put together a WINNING ORGANIZATION top to bottom and all Brady had to do was perform in Hoodies system; that put him in the best position to win every year. 

The Pats are the GOAT in terms of dynastic football but not the QB. Manning gets that honor by me

 

The majority like to focus on SB rings or stats; I prefer to focus on the men throwing the ball.

 

All of the Brady Cabana Boys can save their outrage and disparaging comments because you will never change my perspective. :lol:

What about the fact that manning is an infamous choke job in the playoffs? One thing about brady is that he is clutch under pressure 

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12 minutes ago, BigBenTheSteelerMan said:

What about the fact that manning is an infamous choke job in the playoffs? One thing about brady is that he is clutch under pressure 

Helps to always have homefield in the playoffs.

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