Tryptamine

Eloy Jimenez - OF CWS

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2 years from now the Cub system is going to be flush with arms. All of their exciting arms are incredibly young. Clifton in A+ is probably the oldest of the movement.

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On July 7, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Cmilne23 said:

I actually think it is pretty smart if his philosophy is what I am alluding to.  The bust rate for young pitchers is so high given injury rate with TJ spike over the years.  It seems smarter to develop an abundance of hitters to then either trade for proven pitchers, or use FA to sign established starters.  IE Lackey, Lester who have long established track records of being durable starters in baseball.

 

Hi CM:  I can confirm I've heard multiple interviews with Hoyer/Epstein where he spoke about his desire to draft bats that project to power bats in the majors.  Their thought process is that true power bats are actually very hard to find in baseball and if you have enough of them, you'll fill out your roster.  And... other teams covet them as they are indeed barren across most minor league systems - i.e.:  HanRam for Beckett.

 

 

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Helium, enormous amount of helium here. He's everything I had hoped Soler would be.

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It's certainly going to be interesting to see what Jimenez does when he makes the jump here shortly from A to AA ball.  He's still only 19..

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Crawford at BP said Eloy Jimenez was the most impressive prospect on display, more so than Moncada/Reyes.

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This might be insane, but given the amount of love he's getting from all the baseball writers right now, I have to value Eloy as a top 5-10 prospect.

 

I know his market value isn't there yet, and that means I'll likely hold him, but I'm fine with that.

 

Think about it -- what if the midseason lists came out after the futures game? He's certainly have been bumped even higher. And his hype is only just starting.

 

Look at the jump Victor Robles made last year. Eloy is following a similar trajectory, although I think his tools are louder. Don't think I'd trade Eloy for Robles tbh...

 

Am I too hype? I really think this is just the beginning!

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It's interesting because KLaw is generally down on guys that K so much. I wasn't expecting him to be pro Eloy. 

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13 hours ago, fawkes_mulder said:

This might be insane, but given the amount of love he's getting from all the baseball writers right now, I have to value Eloy as a top 5-10 prospect.

 

I know his market value isn't there yet, and that means I'll likely hold him, but I'm fine with that.

 

Think about it -- what if the midseason lists came out after the futures game? He's certainly have been bumped even higher. And his hype is only just starting.

 

Look at the jump Victor Robles made last year. Eloy is following a similar trajectory, although I think his tools are louder. Don't think I'd trade Eloy for Robles tbh...

 

Am I too hype? I really think this is just the beginning!

 

You're too hype. Lot of love for him right now, and also a wide range of outcomes. He's got a .407 BABIP. The average is a mirage, it will come down. His discipline leaves plenty to be desired.

 

in terms of tools he's an exciting young player. But he's not all of a sudden over all the known quantities in the high minors, and even then, Robles, Devers, Gleyber, Rodgers, Espinoza, these are the Lo or Hi A guys who alone could be ranked ahead of Eloy.

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1 hour ago, neph27 said:

 

You're too hype. Lot of love for him right now, and also a wide range of outcomes. He's got a .407 BABIP. The average is a mirage, it will come down. His discipline leaves plenty to be desired.

 

in terms of tools he's an exciting young player. But he's not all of a sudden over all the known quantities in the high minors, and even then, Robles, Devers, Gleyber, Rodgers, Espinoza, these are the Lo or Hi A guys who alone could be ranked ahead of Eloy.

 

Hi Neph:  This is a really good synopsis.

 

As most everyone knows, I'm a die-hard Cub fan who follows their prospect pool very closely.  The true test of Eloy's maturation is going to be how he handles the soon-to-happen promotion to AA.  You're right - right now he has an unsustainable BABIP and still doesn't have ideal plate discipline.  He's a VERY toolsy player, and the hope is upon his promotion it all just clicks.  We shall see - what he did in the Future's Game certainly was impressive.

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I wouldn't worry too much about babip in the minors, nearly all great hitters are going to sport very high babips in the minors it's just the nature of the process. 1, the field conditions are no where near as nice so you're going to get those little hops and 2, the defense is no where near as high quality as it is in the big leagues. As Bryant was coming up I  kept watching his continually          .370+babip and wondered how that would possibly work out. Well it has worked out because guys like Bryant and Eloy put a lot of hard hit balls into play so they're naturally going to carry a high babip.

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3 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I wouldn't worry too much about babip in the minors, nearly all great hitters are going to sport very high babips in the minors it's just the nature of the process. 1, the field conditions are no where near as nice so you're going to get those little hops and 2, the defense is no where near as high quality as it is in the big leagues. As Bryant was coming up I  kept watching his continually          .370+babip and wondered how that would possibly work out. Well it has worked out because guys like Bryant and Eloy put a lot of hard hit balls into play so they're naturally going to carry a high babip.

 

This is also true, Tryp.  I don't think there's any doubt you're looking at one of the hot prospects in the game.  I'm really excited to see what Eloy does in the huge jump from A to AA.

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Not so worried about the babip as many of many elite prospects have had very high babips almost their entire MILB career. MILB babip hasn't proven to be very reliable as a projection tool as much as it has the MLB level. 

 

K rate is an issue but when we have seen guys like Springer/Crush/Bryant exceed so it's probably going to come down to contact and walk rates with Eloy. 

 

Regardless, Eloy has lots of time to develop if needed. It would be exciting to see him push through these lower levels quickly though when that happens sometimes these prospects can stall out with learning at aa/aaa with a lot of pressure on them. 

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I've learned my lesson not to obsess about BABIP in the minors. Good hitters will post crazy BABIPs.

 

Know I'm probably too hype, but look at my posts ITT. It started with t100 next year which I thought was too conservative (it was). Then t50 this year, which also hit.

 

I know a helium prospect when I see one. Want to be ahead of the curve on it. Truth be told someone offers me Gleyber Torres or Victor Robles straight up for Eloy in a trade, I probably reject it. Eloy's stock has three arrows pointing up.

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I can see turning down Gleyber. He's not as fantasy friendly potential wise as Eloy.

 

but ROBLES?

 

Thaaaaats a stretch for me. 5 cats vs 4. Similar timeframes, more consensus around Victor. To me he's easily the top A ball guy right now, any position. With him it's not just the tools, but also the mature approach for such a young player. He may get hit some but he's also more disciplined then 99% of players his age regardless. 

Edited by neph27

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34 minutes ago, neph27 said:

I can see turning down Gleyber. He's not as fantasy friendly potential wise as Eloy.

 

but ROBLES?

 

Thaaaaats a stretch for me. 5 cats vs 4. Similar timeframes, more consensus around Victor. To me he's easily the top A ball guy right now, any position. With him it's not just the tools, but also the mature approach for such a young player. He may get hit some but he's also more disciplined then 99% of players his age regardless. 

Robles is cool, but I don't think he's gonna bring the power for fantasy. I'm in an OBP/SLG league so power is heavily rewarded. Would bet money Eloy hits more homers than Robles in their respective MLB careers (crazy bet...both guys haven't even gotten to the MLB, but that's my sincere belief). A ton of Robles value is attributed to his defense. I think it is presumptive for you to call Robles a 5 cat fantasy producer.

 

Also, Robles has struggled since moving to high A. Small sample, and obviously Eloy hasn't hit at that level yet.

 

Gleyber, same thing, think he's likely much better IRL than fantasy guy.

 

FWIW, I'm clearly much higher than the market on Eloy and lower than the market on torres/robles. Time will tell.
 

Edited by fawkes_mulder

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I would absolutely take Rodgers or Devers though. Especially Rodgers.

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I think the main point is that Eloy is shooting up these lists like Robles did last year and if they were made after the Futures game it's easy to him ranked him across the board. Mulder is smart to be ahead of the curve. Robles wasn't even on the mid-season lists last year. If Eloy has a big 2nd half the noise and hype that follows could be t10 prospect in 2017. If he flames the second half he's still probably a t50 guy. 

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18 minutes ago, tucker26 said:

I think the main point is that Eloy is shooting up these lists like Robles did last year and if they were made after the Futures game it's easy to him ranked him across the board. Mulder is smart to be ahead of the curve. Robles wasn't even on the mid-season lists last year. If Eloy has a big 2nd half the noise and hype that follows could be t10 prospect in 2017. If he flames the second half he's still probably a t50 guy. 

Eloy has a higher ceiling because he's a good 4 feet taller Robles and more gifted athlete with more room for projection in his frame.. 

 

Robles is actually 6 Months young than Eloy. Him being the hot pop up guy a year before Eloy, despite Eloy being the top IFA of his class..Speaks higher of Robles..  Robles did it with his advanced feel to hit on top the foundation of a legit 5 tool set...  Robles does have his own project-able power and the the Hit tool that can have everything else play up should not be under-estimated..  

 

Both guys are gonna be special.. So it can be splitting hairs. Can understand the draw of pure raw upside in a 19 year old though...

 

 

Edited by Slatykamora

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3 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

Eloy has a higher ceiling because he's a good 4 feet taller Robles and more gifted athlete with more room for projection in his frame.. 

 

Robles is actually 6 Months young than Eloy. Him being the hot pop up guy a year before Eloy, despite Eloy being the top IFA of his class..Speaks higher of Robles..  Robles did it with his advanced feel to hit on top the foundation of a legit 5 tool set...  Robles does have his own project-able power and the the Hit tool that can have everything else play up should not be under-estimated..  

 

Both guys are gonna be special.. So it can be splitting hairs. Can understand the draw of pure raw upside in a 19 year old though...

 

 

 

I'd say both have comparable ceilings fantasy wise, and wouldn't put one over the other right now.  Definitely don't see Eloy as the more gifted athlete though.

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11 minutes ago, Tayne said:

 

I'd say both have comparable ceilings fantasy wise, and wouldn't put one over the other right now.  Definitely don't see Eloy as the more gifted athlete though.

Robles is exceptional athlete too.. but Eloy raw physical gifts are why he was the very tippy top IFA at 16

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