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Eloy Jimenez - OF CWS

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pardon my ignorance but what effect would keeping him in the minors do if he already has this contract inked?

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2 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I'm not being combative.  He has never had one single AB at the major league level.  The team hasn't broken camp yet.  So no he has not been sent down officially.  He is still on the 40 man roster.  They have used no options on him at all yet.

 

Ok. Whatever man.

 

They sent him down during spring training with intention of him opening the season in the minor leagues due to service time. The only part of that that could be up for debate is the reason (and even that would be a loose debate).

 

Are you actually trying to claim they never sent him down from the minor leagues and he was a part of their opening day roster from the start?

 

This dialogue is ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, lukeman89 said:

pardon my ignorance but what effect would keeping him in the minors do if he already has this contract inked?

 

It wouldn't. Calling him up would just indicate to me that the only reason he was SENT DOWN FROM SPRING TRAINING in the first place was service time related. It would be a confirmation of what we all assume, basically.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

It wouldn't. Calling him up would just indicate to me that the only reason he was SENT DOWN FROM SPRING TRAINING in the first place was service time related. It would be a confirmation of what we all assume, basically.

Heres come a phantom injury to one of their outfielders to justify the move. I kid...I kid (sort of)

Edited by drunkb
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This is great news for the Eloy owners. He will likely be the starting outfielder for the White Sox. More teams should definitely be looking to do this. He should easily bump up the draft by 15-25 picks.

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14 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

It wouldn't. Calling him up would just indicate to me that the only reason he was SENT DOWN FROM SPRING TRAINING in the first place was service time related. It would be a confirmation of what we all assume, basically.

 

But why would anyone believe it was for any other reason to begin with?  The service time loophole is certainly no mystery to anyone who follows baseball.  And it stands to reason that management can't state publicly they are minipulating service time, so what do you expect?

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Posted (edited)

Hell yeah. Got him way later than I should have. Trying to temper expectations but that plate discipline/power profile makes it hard not to get excited.

Ready for him to be moved over to the big boy board!

 

Edited by DFWSooner

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6 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Ok. Whatever man.

 

They sent him down during spring training with intention of him opening the season in the minor leagues due to service time. The only part of that that could be up for debate is the reason (and even that would be a loose debate).

 

Are you actually trying to claim they never sent him down from the minor leagues and he was a part of their opening day roster from the start?

 

This dialogue is ridiculous.

Well considering he has a MLB deal and still might be in the minors to start the year it seems there may be a bit more to it then service time manipulation... you know, since that doesn't even matter anymore with him locked up through ARB.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, daynlokki said:

Well considering he has a MLB deal and still might be in the minors to start the year it seems there may be a bit more to it then service time manipulation... you know, since that doesn't even matter anymore with him locked up through ARB.

 

What is your point exactly and why do you feel the need to quote me in it as if we have this big disagreement? Do you even understand what I said?

 

If anything, his likely not starting the year with the big club furthers my point.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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3 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

What is your point exactly and why do you feel the need to quote me in it as if we have this big disagreement? Do you even understand what I said?

 

If anything, his likely not starting the year with the big club furthers my point.

No it doesn't.  Actually the opposite. 

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

No it doesn't.  Actually the opposite.  And why do you keep leaving 2 spaces between every single paragraph?

 

When it was revealed that Eloy would be signing an extension and some of you claimed "Now he can start with the White Sox!", I said that it's unlikely the White Sox will have Eloy on their opening roster because it would basically be admitting that the only reason he wasn't going to be in the first place was due to service time circumstances and so that they could maintain the year of control. This would be something they of course won't admit as front offices will try to convince you with their "front office speak" that the player needs more time, seasoning, etc. By the White Sox AVOIDING this scenario all together and saying he is likely to still start in the minors, it furthers my theory that they were never going to do it anyway (call him up right away and basically admit what we all know)

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I personally would be surprised if Eloy starts in the minors with the completion of the deal. Regardless of the optics, the only issue the White Sox would actually have is a filed grievance and the player isn't going to file a grievance after just signing a contract. The Phillies basically went through this with Kingery last year and no one remembers that they were prepared to send him down before the contract was signed.

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3 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

What is your point exactly and why do you feel the need to quote me in it as if we have this big disagreement? Do you even understand what I said?

 

If anything, his likely not starting the year with the big club furthers my point.

You do realize at this point service time means literally jack s---.  So with that, you're saying they are holding him down because of the perception of service time?  I mean, you cannot prove a negative like that in any way, shape, or form.  What you could EASILY see is that they signed him to that extension as a good faith move, completely taking service time out of the equation.  Teams usually tend to do that with players they expect up to start the season...

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9 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

You do realize at this point service time means literally jack s---.  So with that, you're saying they are holding him down because of the perception of service time?  I mean, you cannot prove a negative like that in any way, shape, or form.  What you could EASILY see is that they signed him to that extension as a good faith move, completely taking service time out of the equation.  Teams usually tend to do that with players they expect up to start the season...

 

I'm confused by your argument. Are you saying that you don't think the decision to send Eloy back to AAA after crushing it last year was based on service time manipulation? I mean, there is no proving something unequivocally, but I think that 95/100 baseball people would agree that it was service time related. Let's see what the White Sox do between now and Thursday.....

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2 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

I'm confused by your argument. Are you saying that you don't think the decision to send Eloy back to AAA after crushing it last year was based on service time manipulation? I mean, there is no proving something unequivocally, but I think that 95/100 baseball people would agree that it was service time related. Let's see what the White Sox do between now and Thursday.....

Considering he just signed a 6 year deal with 2 team options, no, I do not thing them sending him down would be for service time... because they bought out his arbitration years and up to 2 years of free agency...

 

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Scratched with a cold from his minor league game today - probably because he's on his way back to the White Sox to be ready for opening day!

 

One could hope.

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1 minute ago, daynlokki said:

Considering he just signed a 6 year deal with 2 team options, no, I do not thing them sending him down would be for service time... because they bought out his arbitration years and up to 2 years of free agency...

 

 

You'r right and I expect him signing the extension is the reason he'll be in their starting line-up next Thursday.

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1 minute ago, dchamps said:

Scratched with a cold from his minor league game today - probably because he's on his way back to the White Sox to be ready for opening day!

 

One could hope.

 

I believe he needs to do his physical to complete the deal, so yeah, I don't buy the cold being the reason.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

Considering he just signed a 6 year deal with 2 team options, no, I do not thing them sending him down would be for service time... because they bought out his arbitration years and up to 2 years of free agency...

 

 

Buying out his arbitration years comes after they sent him down though. So sending him down had nothing to do with them "buying out those years" since THAT HAD NOT HAPPENED YET.

My point was that they initially sent him down because of service time. Yes, this can't be proved, but isn't it safe to assume at this point? Teams stand by their "coach speak" claiming it has nothing to do with service time or finances and that the player genuinely needs more seasoning. My point was that if they go back on that and call up him up right away after signing a long term deal, it basically proves that it had nothing to do with needing more seasoning and having him start the season in the minors was purely financial and service time related. I find it hard to believe that a team would indirectly (or directly) admit to that so my assumption from the start was that no matter what (long term deal or not), he will start in the minors.

I'm not sure what's getting lost in translation here, because I feel like my point is fairly obvious and clear.

 

Yes, I'm making an assumption that their initially sending him back to minors was service time related, but don't we all assume (know) that?

Edited by ThreadKiller

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11 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

You'r right and I expect him signing the extension is the reason he'll be in their starting line-up next Thursday.

 

If that happens, doesn't it contradict claiming that the reason he was sent down in the first place was for "more seasoning"? It absolutely confirms the baseball world's assumption that he was only optioned to minors because of money (service time) etc. If it was only because of seasoning, then how does a long term deal provide him with more seasoning?

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3 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Buying out his arbitration years comes after they sent him down though. So sending him down had nothing to do with them "buying out those years" since THAT HAD NOT HAPPENED YET.

My point was that they initially sent him down because of service time. Yes, this can't be proved, but isn't it safe to assume at this point? Teams stand by their "coach speak" claiming it has nothing to do with service time or finances and that the player genuinely needs more seasoning. My point was that if they go back on that and call up him up right away after signing a long term deal, it basically proves that it had nothing to do with needing more seasoning and having him start the season in the minors was purely financial and service time related. I find it hard to believe that a team would indirectly (or directly) admit to that so my assumption from the start was that no matter what (long term deal or not), he will start in the minors.

I'm not sure what's getting lost in translation here, because I feel like my point is fairly obvious and clear.

 

Yes, I'm making an assumption that their initially sending him back to minors was service time related, but don't we all assume (know) that?

You're acting like they came together in 5 minutes to make the extension... they didn't, they have been working on it for months.  Meaning they already knew they were close to getting it done when they sent him down.  

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1 minute ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

If that happens, doesn't it contradict claiming that the reason he was sent down in the first place was for "more seasoning"? It absolutely confirms the baseball world's assumption that he was only optioned to minors because of money (service time) etc. If it was only because of seasoning, then how does a long term deal provide him with more seasoning?

 

Yes. I am totally onboard with the service time manipulation rationale for why he was sent down. Anyone who watched Eloy play at AAA last year knew he was too good for that tier. There is 0 argument for Eloy not being amongst the 25 best players on the Chicago White Sox right now.

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He has all of 9 spring training plate appearances as of today.  You think he doesn't even have a chance to need some seasoning.  Ya, he did well in those 7 at bats, but it's 9 freaking plate appearances... small sample size much?

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3 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

He has all of 9 spring training plate appearances as of today.  You think he doesn't even have a chance to need some seasoning.  Ya, he did well in those 7 at bats, but it's 9 freaking plate appearances... small sample size much?

 

Perhaps you're right about needing more Spring ABs, but he had 228 PA at AAA last year with a 179!!! wRC+, .242ISO, a 13.2% strikeout rate, and a .355/.399/.597 slash line. I think it's pretty evident that he's ready for whatever level is immediately above AAA.

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2 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

Perhaps you're right about needing more Spring ABs, but he had 228 PA at AAA last year with a 179!!! wRC+, .242ISO, a 13.2% strikeout rate, and a .355/.399/.597 slash line. I think it's pretty evident that he's ready for whatever level is immediately above AAA.

He very well could be.  Or the team noticed something in his swing during spring training and realized he needs to get that fixed.  Or there was something behind the scenes where he did something against team rules and instead of embarrassing the player they are trying to sign to an extension publicly, they instead come up with an innocuous excuse to send him down as a way to somewhat chastise him?  Who knows.  We aren't in that front office.  What I do know is you usually don't worry about service time when you know you are about to sign him to an extension.  They have to know how close they are considering it's a negotiation.

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