urban2014

Trevor Story 2017 Outlook

1,035 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, bradwatson said:

So those are like intentional whiffs that don't count against us right?

Getting all the bad swings out from April and now this? Should be locked in to hit over .400 when he gets back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/11/2017 at 6:11 PM, Fiveohnine said:

I liked this because it may actually be what the Rockies think. But I'm sure he's a better defensive shortstop than Trevor Story, since I've watched them both play, especially Desmond.

 

You are definitely mistaken.  Story is no gold glover, but he is above average.  Desmond is exceedingly below average at SS.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one has posted any kind of objective stats or facts that Desmond plays worse SS than Story. 

I posted their defensive WAR numbers showing that Desmond's was MUCH higher every single year he played short for the Nats. It wasn't even close. Even in Desmond's final, error plagued year at SS his defensive WAR was still -twice- that of Story's last year. 

Edited by Fiveohnine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

No one has posted any kind of objective stats or facts that Desmond plays worse SS than Story. 

I posted their defensive WAR numbers showing that Desmond's was MUCH higher every single year he played short for the Nats. It wasn't even close. Even in Desmond's final, error plagued year at SS his defensive WAR was still -twice- that of Story's last year. 

His UZR was s---, worse than Story's and he was clearly getting worse at SS. Furthermore, we have actually watched them both play.

 

Or, if you want to continue to lie about watching so many of Desmond's games, we can just say we actually know what we're looking at when we're looking at their defense?

 

The whole world isn't crazy for disagreeing with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This really isn't even worth debating.  I have no idea how someone is defending Desmond's defensive prowess - in 2017, years after last playing - as superior to Story's.

 

I almost miss jdbob's adulation of Valaika.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a dog in the fight, but the guy presented some objective evidence for his point which no one is refuting with anything other than the "yeah, but I've seen em play" line.

Its cool to disagree, but at least he's hanging his hat on some actual numbers. 

Edited by treat88
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, treat88 said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, but the guy presented some objective evidence for his point which no one is refuting with anything other than the "yeah, but I've seen em play" line.

Its cool to disagree, but at least he's hanging his hat on some actual numbers. 

 

I've seen people refute with Desmond's 52 errors over two seasons and UZR. Why lie if you have no dog in the fight?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

I've seen people refute with Desmond's 52 errors over two seasons and UZR. Why lie if you have no dog in the fight?

Lie? Don't think I did that. Geez I'm one of the Story backers typically but the level of vitriol if the guy is questioned is nucking futs around here. 

I have seen UZR and the errors mentioned but no one has addressed his point about defensive WAR, hence no refuting.

FWIW, I think the 2017 version of Desmond isn't close to out Ding Story. But the point that Desmond's D in his last YEAR at SS, a year hailed as truly awful,  is 2x WAR vs Story's  last season stands. 

 

Edited by treat88
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll bite : a) what do you mean by "defensive WAR"?; and b ) what are the values?

 

I hope it's not based on Fangraphs who openly admit how terribly flawed defensive metrics are at the moment.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Lie? Don't think I did that. Geez I'm one of the Story backers typically but the level of vitriol if the guy is questioned is nucking futs around here. 

I have seen UZR and the errors mentioned but no one has addressed his point about defensive WAR, hence no refuting.

FWIW, I think the 2017 version of Desmond isn't close to out Ding Story. But the point that Desmond's D in his last YEAR at SS, a year hailed as truly awful,  is 2x WAR vs Story's  last season stands. 

 

 

You said that people talkin about Desmond's defense weren't using numbers which is demonstrably false. Either you were mistaken or lying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

You said that people talkin about Desmond's defense weren't using numbers which is demonstrably false. Either you were mistaken or lying.

I said no one directly addressed the point being made, which still seems to be accurate. 

Call it whatever you want to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, treat88 said:

I said no one directly addressed the point being made, which still seems to be accurate. 

Call it whatever you want to. 

 

It's no longer accurate, though - I have.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So WAR is a flawed metric is the direct response?

Cool. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, treat88 said:

So WAR is a flawed metric is the direct response?

Cool. 

 

Not sure why you are misinterpreting my response, treat.  I asked for clarification to make sure we are all on the same page.  To this moment I do not know what was meant by "defensive WAR" or what the values were, as I indicated above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, treat88 said:

I said no one directly addressed the point being made, which still seems to be accurate. 

Call it whatever you want to. 

 

Maybe English isn't your first language or something but his point was that Desmond is a better defensive short stop than Story. Someone cited UZR and Desmond's embarrassingly high number of errors as refutation to that point. Please get your act together and come back when stronger next time, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

Maybe English isn't your first language or something but his point was that Desmond is a better defensive short stop than Story. Someone cited UZR and Desmond's embarrassingly high number of errors as refutation to that point. Please get your act together and come back when stronger next time, 

Pissy much man? 

I know ya love the guy but come on. 

He cited some specific numbers and no one addressed them, that was my point. I'm not here to dog Story, but just questioned why no one directly addressed his point. 

Edited by treat88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just embarrassing - surprisingly deep into that season he was on pace

to crush the MLB record for errors committed by a fielder in a single season.  He was straight dusting Marcus Semien.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Pissy much man? 

I know ya love the guy but come on. 

He cited some specific numbers and no one addressed them, that was my point. I'm not here to dog Story, but just questioned why no one directly addressed his point. 

 

He cited WAR as to why Desmond played better defense.

 

Others cited Desmond's UZR (a number) and errors (also numbers) to say why Desmond didn't play better defense.

 

 

You said: "Its cool to disagree, but at least he's hanging his hat on some actual numbers."  That was wrong. It's okay to be wrong.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Not just embarrassing - surprisingly deep into that season he was on pace

to crush the MLB record for errors committed by a fielder in a single season.  He was straight dusting Marcus Semien.

 

Are errors actual numbers or are they figments of our imagination?

 

If Ian Desmond makes an error in the forest and no one is there to see it, did it actually happen?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

He cited WAR as to why Desmond played better defense.

 

Others cited Desmond's UZR (a number) and errors (also numbers) to say why Desmond didn't play better defense.

 

 

You said: "Its cool to disagree, but at least he's hanging his hat on some actual numbers."  That was wrong. It's okay to be wrong.

Fair enough man. 

I didn't think UZR or errors refuted his WAR point. 

But, you are right numbers were mentioned. My bad. 

Didn't realize what I was stepping in here boys. Carry on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Fair enough man. 

I didn't think UZR or errors refuted his WAR point. 

But, you are right numbers were mentioned. My bad. 

Didn't realize what I was stepping in here boys. Carry on. 

 

I have repeatedly tried to elicit enough information on the WAR point to properly debate it on its merits.  What did that poster mean by "defensive WAR"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BMcP said:

 

I have repeatedly tried to elicit enough information on the WAR point to properly debate it on its merits.  What did that poster mean by "defensive WAR"?

You can see the Fangraphs articles he cited a couple pages back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

You can see the Fangraphs articles he cited a couple pages back. 

 

I literally just reviewed the last two pages and did not see a single Fangraphs link - can you be more specific?

 

I should also point out, to my knowledge, Fangraphs does not provide a "defensive WAR" metric.

Edited by BMcP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.