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2017 Catcher Rankings

175 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, parrothead said:

IN my 2 catcher league, when my 2 catchers are good, my team is good.   I have not had a lot of success chasing the $1 guy so I tend to try and commit resources as well.

In my 1 catcher leagues when my two catchers I always have are good I usually win the league.  You keep that catcher slot hot and filled (thus 2 catchers) the other slots take care of themselves and catcher stats put you over most weeks in h2h and add up wonderfully in roto.

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If feasible (i.e., the league doesn't limit the number of moves), streaming catchers is the way to go. Reaching for a catcher is just a waste.

 

I draft a catcher late usually (last two years it was Grandal and worked ok). If the guy's decent, ok. If he sucks, just play musical chairs with the hot hand at the moment. Chances are the sum of the streamers will be quite comparable with whichever catcher you would have started anyway.

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So many garbage catchers in the league, if you're a young ball-player play catcher and work on your arm/D.  You can hit .220 and hit 8 Hr and be a backup catcher in the mlbs.

 

Appreciate the deep-cut rankings as well...nice to see a bunch of players you've never heard of.

Edited by TurkWendellsNecklace

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I might have missed discussion about it, but it looks like Schwarber will have C eligibility on starting day in Yahoo leagues.

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32 minutes ago, Poke said:

I might have missed discussion about it, but it looks like Schwarber will have C eligibility on starting day in Yahoo leagues.

I like that, simply because I'm an auction drafter and that will drive up his price and I wasn't buying anyway.

Edited by Dislimb

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I see 99% of folks saying they want to wait and/or punt on catcher..... normally i would entirely agree --- I think this year is a bit different where they are guys at the top that were never there before (Schwarber/Sanchez specifically) that is deepening the "top guys."   I remember when it was Posey or bust for a few years.... maybe Lucroy.... this year I think you have to give special consideration to the Schwabs/Sanchez tier because i think they have a chance to be true difference makers 

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On 3/16/2017 at 0:21 PM, Dislimb said:

I like that, simply because I'm an auction drafter and that will drive up his price and I wasn't buying anyway.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

 

To those of you saying ride the hot hand, you know it's been proven countless times that no such thing exists right?  I know, here come the "you obv never played" and references to hot and cold streaks and confidence "you can just tell" and "in the groove" and other results based narratives and yadda yadda yadda, but the thing is that actual data shows that streaks are not predictive.  

 

Happy Monday ya'll.

 

 

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Oh wait I forgot "games aren't played on a spreadsheet" and "people aren't robots" those are classics.

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3 hours ago, phoenixbases said:

Oh wait I forgot "games aren't played on a spreadsheet" and "people aren't robots" those are classics.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

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10 hours ago, phoenixbases said:

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

 

To those of you saying ride the hot hand, you know it's been proven countless times that no such thing exists right?  I know, here come the "you obv never played" and references to hot and cold streaks and confidence "you can just tell" and "in the groove" and other results based narratives and yadda yadda yadda, but the thing is that actual data shows that streaks are not predictive.  

 

Happy Monday ya'll.

 

 

Lot of "hot" streaks begin and end against teams with poor pitching. Another good one is just going to Coors has a tendency of short "hot" streaks. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, phoenixbases said:

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

 

To those of you saying ride the hot hand, you know it's been proven countless times that no such thing exists right?  I know, here come the "you obv never played" and references to hot and cold streaks and confidence "you can just tell" and "in the groove" and other results based narratives and yadda yadda yadda, but the thing is that actual data shows that streaks are not predictive.  

 

Happy Monday ya'll.

 

 

Can you show me that data?

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On 3/16/2017 at 0:32 AM, mysonx3 said:

Any thoughts on Wolters?

I've been looking at him as a backup catcher in my league (we have 1C, but I've got Posey and can slot him in at 1B if I want). I think that even if Wolters hits 9th and is mediocore he'll have some decent numbers - as a backup. He didn't strike out much in the minors, managed to take a few walks, and his contact numbers weren't terrible. His med% was 62.2% (highest in the MLB, even if you ignore the fact that his PA was under 250), and he looks like a really athletic guy, especially for a catcher. He had 4SB last year.

I'm wondering if he's going to be JT Realmuto 2.0... Maybe have a season where he hits .240-.260 but with the same sort of counting stats: 8-10hr, 8-10sb, 30-40rb, 30-40r, more with increased PT.

He's interesting, but I wouldn't be wanting him as primary catcher... not even close. I'd take a BA drain with more power if I could.

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12 hours ago, phoenixbases said:

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

 

To those of you saying ride the hot hand, you know it's been proven countless times that no such thing exists right?  I know, here come the "you obv never played" and references to hot and cold streaks and confidence "you can just tell" and "in the groove" and other results based narratives and yadda yadda yadda, but the thing is that actual data shows that streaks are not predictive.  

 

Happy Monday ya'll.

 

 

 

What about streaming catchers that have series in hitters parks and/or matchups vs bad pitching? I would think your data would show that those two things are predictive.

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This might have already been said, but in OBP leagues I'm targeting Russell Martin and/or Molina.  Both have solid on-base skills and can usually be had in the later rounds.  If I can't get one of the top catchers at a decent price (and it seems in my drafts the top 3 all go too early), then I'd rather fill up on good hitters at other positions, and plug in a Molina.  He won't hurt my OBP, and any other counting stats are gravy.

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On 3/16/2017 at 0:08 AM, papasmurf said:

If feasible (i.e., the league doesn't limit the number of moves), streaming catchers is the way to go. Reaching for a catcher is just a waste.

 

I draft a catcher late usually (last two years it was Grandal and worked ok). If the guy's decent, ok. If he sucks, just play musical chairs with the hot hand at the moment. Chances are the sum of the streamers will be quite comparable with whichever catcher you would have started anyway.

Especially if you play daily, streaming is the way to go.  Take a couple lotto ticket type guys late, keep whoever pans out and drop whoever doesn't

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I'm all for streaming hot bats but in deeper leagues no way are there any catchers worth streaming.  30 starting catchers with at least half the teams carrying two in a 16 team league and you are left with the bottom half dozen all of which are bad, bad and, oh yeah, bad.

Now in 10 teams leagues or less with some rule that only one catcher is "allowed" on a roster maybe it would work fine.  So depends on the league size and the fact that the majority of teams I play against, like me, keep two catchers on their roster to help mine the quantity stats.  If there is enough FA catchers in the pool it works; if not, then not.

And yes there is such a thing as hot bats in general to that person that claims there isn't.  You monitor the players and see someone tearing the hide off the baseball in the weekly stats etc and plug him in until he starts to fade.  (Also the Coors effect works in advance too).  Anyone playing fantasy baseball for any amount of time knows these two techniques work like a charm.  Always has, always will. 

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Obviously depth of the league matters, no doubt.  In 2 C formats, I think you've got to get at least one guy you can feel relatively comfortable with all year.  I think there's potentially a pretty major advantage in getting two of the Sanchez, Schwarber, Posey, Lucroy group, given I see those guys having much higher ABs than the other Cs.  Grandal could fall in that bucket too.

 

Past that, I just don't see any reason to pay the price for some of the mid-tier guys when you can just take 2 dudes late and search around.  And in a 1 C league, same applies - get one of the elites, or Grandal in the middle, or just be the last guy to take a C.

 

While it's easy to say streaming never works, you're not just going to sit there with a zero in your lineup.  Last year Grandal was dropped in a bunch of leagues as he started the year on the DL and was pretty horrible for most of April and May.  Realmuto was on the wire in 12-team 1C formats.  Sanchez entered the league.  Rupp emerged.  Point being, in *most* leagues, you're probably shuffling Cs with maybe 2 or 3 other teams, trying to find the hot streak or the breakout guy.  That's a lot easier than actually investing in a thoroughly mediocre option only to feel tied to that option and stake any sort of expectation to that guy.  If you know you're going to shuffle your C or your 2nd C, you can be quick on the wire because there's zero hesitation in cutting a guy you already have no expectation for.

 

My 2 cents.

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7 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

Obviously depth of the league matters, no doubt.  In 2 C formats, I think you've got to get at least one guy you can feel relatively comfortable with all year.  I think there's potentially a pretty major advantage in getting two of the Sanchez, Schwarber, Posey, Lucroy group, given I see those guys having much higher ABs than the other Cs.  Grandal could fall in that bucket too.

 

Past that, I just don't see any reason to pay the price for some of the mid-tier guys when you can just take 2 dudes late and search around.  And in a 1 C league, same applies - get one of the elites, or Grandal in the middle, or just be the last guy to take a C.

 

While it's easy to say streaming never works, you're not just going to sit there with a zero in your lineup.  Last year Grandal was dropped in a bunch of leagues as he started the year on the DL and was pretty horrible for most of April and May.  Realmuto was on the wire in 12-team 1C formats.  Sanchez entered the league.  Rupp emerged.  Point being, in *most* leagues, you're probably shuffling Cs with maybe 2 or 3 other teams, trying to find the hot streak or the breakout guy.  That's a lot easier than actually investing in a thoroughly mediocre option only to feel tied to that option and stake any sort of expectation to that guy.  If you know you're going to shuffle your C or your 2nd C, you can be quick on the wire because there's zero hesitation in cutting a guy you already have no expectation for.

 

My 2 cents.

 

To add to your point, catchers rarely finish in the top 100 anymore. And when they do, it's typically towards the bottom half of the 100. So there's really not any urgency to grab a catcher once the top three go off the board, at least in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, lbjames6 said:

 

To add to your point, catchers rarely finish in the top 100 anymore. And when they do, it's typically towards the bottom half of the 100. So there's really not any urgency to grab a catcher once the top three go off the board, at least in my opinion.

I think ther is more depth than that.  Contreras, Wilson Ramos when he comes back, Grandal, Realmuto. Even if you don;t get the big three this season a good catcher can help you win in H2H week in and week out because they are guys that only grab some bottom of the barrel catcher or "punt" that slot entirely.  I love playing against them in H2H.  Like stealing candy from a baby and they never know why I edge them out time and time again in hitting categories either.  They just have a blind spot about how catchers can flip the script in H2H it seems.

Same goes for roto but you don't get your reward until the end of the season there.  H2H you get your reward almost every week.

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Agreed on the top being a little deeper -- I guess that Grandal middle ground would include Contreras for sure, maybe Realmuto though idk how much I buy into it.  To me the value at C is finding someone with a good number of ABs so as to provide solid counting stats while not wrecking your batting AVG.

 

Having a solid C for 350 ABs still isn't much of an advantage, especially if that C costs you a 650 PA bat at another position.

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17 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I think ther is more depth than that.  Contreras, Wilson Ramos when he comes back, Grandal, Realmuto. Even if you don;t get the big three this season a good catcher can help you win in H2H week in and week out because they are guys that only grab some bottom of the barrel catcher or "punt" that slot entirely.  I love playing against them in H2H.  Like stealing candy from a baby and they never know why I edge them out time and time again in hitting categories either.  They just have a blind spot about how catchers can flip the script in H2H it seems.

Same goes for roto but you don't get your reward until the end of the season there.  H2H you get your reward almost every week.

 

Contreras isn't bad. I don't think anyone is stashing Ramos in anything but the deepest of leagues or 2 C leagues, Grandal and Realmuto I'm not a fan of. But it actually adds to my point, I picked Contreras up off waivers last year after Wilson Ramos got hurt (who I also got off the waiver wire and was a top 5 catcher for a couple of months.)

Edited by lbjames6

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