CL3VELANDBR0WNS

Cleveland Browns Offseason Thread 2017

241 posts in this topic

This offseason will be perhaps the biggest one in our modern franchise history.
Frightening.

Anyways here is my layout so I have it somewhere. 

QB- The Browns should pursue the best QB available in free agency, Tyrod Taylor. If you take a QB in the first round, particularly 1st overall, he is going to get some cash anyways. Why not just sign a veteran version of Watson for a few years? Tyrod's struggles in Buffalo were mainly due to Robert Woods being his #1 WR for most of the year. I think he will be successful with Pryor (or Pryor's replacement), Coleman, and Louis. 

RB- Duke Johnson is an electrifying passing back with potential for a bigger role. However, it is clear that the coaching staff views him as a role player. Crowell is maintaining the two down pounder role but it wouldn't stun me if the Browns decide to find another back in the late rounds who can do Crowell's job just as good if not better. Regardless, this position is about the least of the team's worries but it wouldn't hurt to add another playmaker here to give the backfield a boost to good to elite levels. Right now it is simply average.

WR- As I've said before with the Pryor situation, tag him and let him play out the year. Coleman should take a huge step forward and if that is the case, it will be goodbye Pryor. If Coleman struggles, I think of Pryor as sort of a bridge WR1 if there is such a thing. Regardless, Pryor will be a 29 year old player who relies solely on athleticism by the time 2018 rolls around, I don't envision our stingy front office giving over Marvin Jones or Eric Decker money for that. Especially if a player of his size only comes down with 4 scores again. He too often frustrated in the red zone, getting boxed out by smaller DBs. 

TE- We have a 3 down TE capable of catching passes when needed. Like running back, it's average but not the root of our problems. We could use a playmaker but consistency from a TE who can even block on running downs is not something to be bashful about.

T- Thomas is a franchise LT and future HOF. I have been hard on Cam Erving but he may be a better fit for RT. I did not realize he played a lot of his college snaps at that position. We'll give him a shot with Pasztor on deck as a league average backup.

G- Bitonio is an all pro and a lone bright spot on an otherwise weak interior. Greco can be a league average starter.

C- Center was a huge issue and needs to be addressed IMO. If we get our QB, we can't have a mess at center again. That is asking for disaster, particularly if it is a young QB.

DT- Shelton and Meder will do as interior run stuffers. We spent a first round pick on a one dimensional player. At least he wasn't a complete bust. 

DE/LB/EDGE- Ogbah will develop into a fine pass rusher and was the only rookie that showed a ton of promise outside of Coleman early in the season. Nassib will be a good rotational pass rusher. Kirksey and Collins are actually two of the bright spots on this defense, I think they have potential to be a top 10 LB duo. Finally, some legitimate stars in the making.

CB/S- Haden is a huge problem and he will probably be gone any day now. I do not like the idea of drafting a CB early. There are usually some good ones available in free agency and you can find some later round guys that fit your scheme who could possibly develop into solid starters. I think the CB marker in terms of the draft is just messed up, it seems like anybody who is even an average CB is hyped as a 1st round pick. There is just a high demand. Safety absolutely needs to be addressed, we cannot go through another season with a million different safety combinations, all of which get promptly burnt to a crisp.

Free Agency-

- Sign Tyrod Taylor depending on the price for his services 
- Franchise tag Terrell Pryor for the 2017 season unless he wants a reasonable 2-3 year contract with incentive based bonuses, then lock him up
- Go after a tackle. There aren't many good ones in the draft.
- Resign Poyer for cheap
- Go after a CB & cut ties with Joe Haden

Draft-

Top 3 needs:
Edge, S, C

- If we keep hiring aggressive coordinators, it is time to get them some help in the form of some legitimate pass rusher(s) to pair with Ogbah.
- Safety was a revolving door position, there are some really good ones available. The team could desperately use a reliable center fielder to make sure we aren't the secondary every WR wants to face.
- Center was also one big failure this year. Erving is not destined to be a center and although the performance seemingly improved the further down the depth chart we went, it needs to be addressed. Elflein is flying under the radar right now and I will certainly bang the table for him. He is a potential elite center in this league and has versatility if anything goes disastrously wrong elsewhere.

Other considerations:
- drafting Deshaun Watson, Kizer, or Turbisky. While the only option I like here is Watson, I don't see us going down this avenue anyway. Asking a young QB to go under these laughable centers is not what we want. I think we would have to take Watson first overall and like I said above, I see Watson as a Taylor clone. Why not sign Taylor for a few years instead if you are going to be dealing out a first overall contract to a QB who is exactly like him?

- drafting another playmaker. The Browns are in an interesting spot at 12, if any one of Cook/Fournette/Williams falls to them, I would not be surprised if they went for it. The one I would mostly be surprised with would be Williams, unless we let Pryor go. However, drafting WRs in back to back years can be a dangerous feat. Basically, if Cook falls to us I think that he could be a guy that we would pick simply because that is a great value at 12.

Thoughts?

 

Edited by CL3VELANDBR0WNS

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@CL3VELANDBR0WNS, not going to reply to your entire post but here are my thoughts:

 

QB - generally agree especially about the rookie QBs (and honestly I haven't really studied them other than Watson).  BTW, by refusing the Cleveland invite to participate in the Senior Bowl and be coached by the Cleveland staff he may have eliminated himself from first round consideration by them.  As for Taylor, if he's let go by Buffalo I can see him as a bridge guy.   But do you want to get a QB that could make you just good enough to miss out on a potential big time guy in the 2018 draft?  

 

RB - agree.  And your replacement for Crowell in time may already be on your roster in Jackson.  Hated that Dallas cut him. 

 

WR - agree.

 

OL - this gets interesting.  Gotta get a center.  We'll have to see the final evaluation on Efflin but he'd be a decent pick in the second.   Irving at RT might be salvageable.  He's just not physical enough to play inside.  I'd actually look to upgrade Greco in free agency.  Ron Leary possibly.

 

DL - Garrett is coming.   Love Ogbah.  Like Nassib as a depth guy with potential for more.   In a 4/3 actually like Mader (98) and Shelton but if there's a 3 tech in the draft of FA pounce.

 

LB - just need one more. 

 

Secondary - garbage fire.   Spend what it takes for Bouye.  A CB would be in play for me at 12 if a lineman isn't there.   As for safety, Hooker is likely gone by 12.  If somehow Eric Berry makes it to FA I'd pay whatever it takes.  If not I'd sign Micah Hyde.

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@96mnc

I think it's possible Hooker or Adams fall. A trade up is also possible. If not maybe in the 2nd round we go after a safety like Baker. 

I would not be surprised if elflein is our pick at 12. Every year a center usually sneaks in and Elflein is a whole lot better than Ryan Kelly IMO.  

 

I guess I'm higher on Tyrod than the rest. I see him as much more than a bridge guy. I see him as an above average league starter with potential to win games on his own if given some decent perimeter weapons, which he would have here. Another awful season would yield a high draft pick possibly giving us a franchise QB but Hue Jackson is almost certainly gone if the team cannot win more than 4 games. Not what I want but it will have to happen.

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KEEP JOSH GORDON!!!!!!!!!

Make him live at the practice facility, put an ankle bracelet on him and he will lead you to the playoffs

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1 hour ago, dashoe said:

KEEP JOSH GORDON!!!!!!!!!

Make him live at the practice facility, put an ankle bracelet on him and he will lead you to the playoffs

 

giphy.gif

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19 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

http://www.espn.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8304196/dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-adhere-strict-team-mandated-guidelines-behavior

 

It's worked in the past for character issues.  Although I think Gordon is already too far down the rabbit hole.

 

That's the point. Josh Gordon is no Dez. And even if he was, CLE is not close to being playoff ready. 

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Josh Gordon is in limbo but it would help to get a guy back who was once the league's best WR.

It's possible we can babysit him but he has to be allowed into our facilities first. 

I don't see the team cutting a player this talented, they would be stupid to do so. It's not a distraction, the offseason hype around him is the equivalent of rookie hype. Nobody really cares until they see it. 

I will say that if Josh comes back in 2017, Pryor can pack his bags. It's a possibility Pryor would slide as far down as the #3 WR in that scenario. 
 

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29 minutes ago, CL3VELANDBR0WNS said:

I will say that if Josh comes back in 2017, Pryor can pack his bags. It's a possibility Pryor would slide as far down as the #3 WR in that scenario. 

wow CLE you really think so??  I think if anything Hue and CLE's loyalty will be far greater to Pryor,  IMO, as it should.  He's earned it and honestly i see a talented player in the making in Pryor who's worked his butt off, unlike Gordon.   The risk involved in investing in Gordon's  future is FAR to great to send Pryor packing.  The league leash is short on Gordon, don't forget that. He could be in a Browns uni one day(or any team), and back in rehab the next.  He's also 3 season's removed from playing in the NFL, so while he may have come off for one season as a top tier WR (no way i'd say he's the best at that time BTW), god only knows what player you are getting at this point, even if he's only 25/26 years old.

 

My opinion is that if Hue and the Browns are smart, they will cut ties in full, move on, and wish Gordon the best.  

 

CLE has been bad for too long. Moves like going back all in on Gordon, then to send Pryor packing would point to  another reason why. If by some chance that ever happened.

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5 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

wow CLE you really think so??  I think if anything Hue and CLE's loyalty will be far greater to Pryor,  IMO, as it should.  He's earned it and honestly i see a talented player in the making in Pryor who's worked his butt off, unlike Gordon.   The risk involved in investing in Gordon's  future is FAR to great to send Pryor packing.  The league leash is short on Gordon, don't forget that. He could be in a Browns uni one day(or any team), and back in rehab the next.  He's also 3 season's removed from playing in the NFL, so while he may have come off for one season as a top tier WR (no way i'd say he's the best at that time BTW), god only knows what player you are getting at this point, even if he's only 25/26 years old.

 

My opinion is that if Hue and the Browns are smart, they will cut ties in full, move on, and wish Gordon the best.  

 

CLE has been bad for too long. Moves like going back all in on Gordon, then to send Pryor packing would point to  another reason why. If by some chance that ever happened.

My feeling is that Pryor is likely gone by 2018 either way.
Gordon coming back would just add on.
Sorry for any confusion. I am not saying that Pryor will be let go SOLELY because of Gordon. He will be let go due to the likely emergence of Corey Coleman as the #1 WR.

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3 hours ago, CL3VELANDBR0WNS said:

Josh Gordon is in limbo but it would help to get a guy back who was once the league's best WR.

It's possible we can babysit him but he has to be allowed into our facilities first. 

I don't see the team cutting a player this talented, they would be stupid to do so. It's not a distraction, the offseason hype around him is the equivalent of rookie hype. Nobody really cares until they see it. 

I will say that if Josh comes back in 2017, Pryor can pack his bags. It's a possibility Pryor would slide as far down as the #3 WR in that scenario. 
 

 

I think there's less than a 10% chance Gordon ever plays for Cleveland again.   It was clear that Hue and Brown were done with him after his last relapse.

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6 hours ago, CL3VELANDBR0WNS said:

@96mnc

I think it's possible Hooker or Adams fall. A trade up is also possible. If not maybe in the 2nd round we go after a safety like Baker. 

I would not be surprised if elflein is our pick at 12. Every year a center usually sneaks in and Elflein is a whole lot better than Ryan Kelly IMO.  

 

I guess I'm higher on Tyrod than the rest. I see him as much more than a bridge guy. I see him as an above average league starter with potential to win games on his own if given some decent perimeter weapons, which he would have here. Another awful season would yield a high draft pick possibly giving us a franchise QB but Hue Jackson is almost certainly gone if the team cannot win more than 4 games. Not what I want but it will have to happen.

 

I think Hooker goes #7 to SD.  Makes too much sense for them not to take him there. 

 

Tyrod is limited in that he's not good on intermediate routes.  He throws a nice deep ball,  has good mobility, and generally protects the ball well.  But I have doubts whether you can win it all with him under center.   At some point you'll face an opponent in the playoffs that will make him be accurate in the middle of the field.

 

What Elflein's final draft grade is is one of the things I'm most looking forward to throughout the draft process.

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3 hours ago, Ffguy0087 said:

 

 

Please God nooooooo!!!  He would extend Bradys career by 5yrs and give him every passing record in the league!!!  and the narrative will become how Brady made Gordon great and that would make me want to punch a baby!

 

If he doesnt stay in Cle then please let him go to San Diego or Detroit. i would even accept the Ravens before he goes to the Pats

Edited by dashoe

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34 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Please God nooooooo!!!  He would extend Bradys career by 5yrs and give him every passing record in the league!!!  and the narrative will become how Brady made Gordon great and that would make me want to punch a baby!

 

If he doesnt stay in Cle then please let him go to San Diego or Detroit. i would even accept the Ravens before he goes to the Pats

Believe it or not, I think his most likely fit is either the Raiders or Dallas.

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29 minutes ago, CL3VELANDBR0WNS said:

Believe it or not, I think his most likely fit is either the Raiders or Dallas.

with Dallas burned on their last few drug risks, I'm not sure they'd do anything beyond a one year prove it contract if they were 100% on him being reinstated. 

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20 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

with Dallas burned on their last few drug risks, I'm not sure they'd do anything beyond a one year prove it contract if they were 100% on him being reinstated. 

Can you really get burnt from a deal with little guaranteed money and huge incentives?  Because that is what the price is going to be

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Can we just fast forward to the part where they go 4-12, fire the HC and start over again? 

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2 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Please God nooooooo!!!  He would extend Bradys career by 5yrs and give him every passing record in the league!!!  and the narrative will become how Brady made Gordon great and that would make me want to punch a baby!

 

If he doesnt stay in Cle then please let him go to San Diego or Detroit. i would even accept the Ravens before he goes to the Pats

 

Gordon hasn't been great since 2013. Brady has been great every season. Time to face facts. 

 

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1 hour ago, CL3VELANDBR0WNS said:

Can you really get burnt from a deal with little guaranteed money and huge incentives?  Because that is what the price is going to be

 

Yes you can.   Because you still end up depending on him in a role and at any moment he could be gone. 

 

Dallas just experienced this with MLB Ronaldo McClain.  When he got suspended the issue wasn't the money,  it was that they didn't have another high end MLB ready to step into his position.  

It's like if you hire a free intern to do work in your office and then they don't show up to work after a month.   You're not out the money because the labor was free, you're out having a person in place to do their job.   Everyone else has to pitch in get the duties that intern was supposed to be doing done.  And while in the real world you can go through the hiring process again and fill the position capably, in the NFL there's no one on the street (or usually on your roster) that can reasonably replicate the production of a Gordon or McClain.

 

Imagine how different the Dallas D would have been this season if they had Gregory and McClain all year.  Now think about how different it could have been if last off season Dallas had decided that they couldn't depend on either player and had actually filled those roles with capable players like Zach Brown and Robert Ayers that were available at trial time.   But since they were counting on McClain and Gregory they were screwed when they got suspended again.  

 

Bottomline, you can't depend on Gordon, Gregory, or McClain types.

 

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1 hour ago, 96mnc said:

 

Yes you can.   Because you still end up depending on him in a role and at any moment he could be gone. 

 

Dallas just experienced this with MLB Ronaldo McClain.  When he got suspended the issue wasn't the money,  it was that they didn't have another high end MLB ready to step into his position.  

It's like if you hire a free intern to do work in your office and then they don't show up to work after a month.   You're not out the money because the labor was free, you're out having a person in place to do their job.   Everyone else has to pitch in get the duties that intern was supposed to be doing done.  And while in the real world you can go through the hiring process again and fill the position capably, in the NFL there's no one on the street (or usually on your roster) that can reasonably replicate the production of a Gordon or McClain.

 

Imagine how different the Dallas D would have been this season if they had Gregory and McClain all year.  Now think about how different it could have been if last off season Dallas had decided that they couldn't depend on either player and had actually filled those roles with capable players like Zach Brown and Robert Ayers that were available at trial time.   But since they were counting on McClain and Gregory they were screwed when they got suspended again.  

 

Bottomline, you can't depend on Gordon, Gregory, or McClain types.

 

A cheap deal in Gordon's case would be fine because I think they have sufficient WR depth to at least be good in the event he doesn't pan out.  Someone like the Rams or Eagles would be absolutely screwed in this example though because they don't have fallback options for what they'd be looking for out of Gordon. The Cowboys have Dez.  If Gordon doesn't hang around, it'd still be Dez, Beasley, and Butler (assuming dumb as C-Mike Williams is gone) as your starters, which is perfectly fine.  The Browns would be okay if they decided to do it anyway because they seem to have some depth developing (and more because they won't be competing anyway). 

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59 minutes ago, jbshaw said:

A cheap deal in Gordon's case would be fine because I think they have sufficient WR depth to at least be good in the event he doesn't pan out.  Someone like the Rams or Eagles would be absolutely screwed in this example though because they don't have fallback options for what they'd be looking for out of Gordon. The Cowboys have Dez.  If Gordon doesn't hang around, it'd still be Dez, Beasley, and Butler (assuming dumb as C-Mike Williams is gone) as your starters, which is perfectly fine.  The Browns would be okay if they decided to do it anyway because they seem to have some depth developing (and more because they won't be competing.

 

 

The Browns are still trying to build a winning culture.  Don't have a malcontent around when you're trying to accomplish that. 

 

Considering the utter failures Dallas has had recently with druggies Gregory, Lawrence, and McClain  (who missed a combined 35 games this year due to drug related suspensions) they'd be foolish to acquire any player with any sort of drug, alcohol, or addiction issue.  Insanity is doing to the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.

 

If there was an organization that could afford to gamble on Gordon I'd think it'd be an organization like the Pats who have an established foundation in place.  But given that they shipped off Chandler Jones after his drug related incident I'm not sure they would even be interested.  Yes,  I know they claimed Floyd off waivers but that was driven in large part by trying to get a draft pick since he's a free agent.

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10 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

Gordon hasn't been great since 2013. Brady has been great every season. Time to face facts. 

 

 

 

Facts?  You want facts?

 

Matt Cassel was easily Tom Brady's peer in New England.  Even got himself a really big contract the following season.  Then he ABSOLUTELY SUCKED PLAYING ON EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL!!! 

 

Just saying.

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6 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Facts?  You want facts?

 

Matt Cassel was easily Tom Brady's peer in New England.  Even got himself a really big contract the following season.  Then he ABSOLUTELY SUCKED PLAYING ON EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL!!! 

 

Just saying.

What does this have to do with gordon going to the patriots?

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