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My Dinner With Andre

CTE could end the game of Football as we know it

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Some of you need to find another sport & hobby before hypocrisy takes over completely.

If everyone was only this riled up over the water in Flint.

Wow!

Talk about a red herring. Is it really that hard to say, "yeah the NFL messed up here?"

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Some of you need to find another sport & hobby before hypocrisy takes over completely.

If everyone was only this riled up over the water in Flint.

Buddy...

This is the world of 2016. U coverup major medical information and the lawsuits will be just the beginning of your problem.

The NFL is always behind on this stuff. Disclose the full risk, take the stance that you want to lead the way instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming.

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Some of you need to find another sport & hobby before hypocrisy takes over completely.

If everyone was only this riled up over the water in Flint.

Wow!

Talk about a red herring. Is it really that hard to say, "yeah the NFL messed up here?"

Yeah the NFL messed up here but I love watching the sport and hope it continues.*

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The NFL is always behind on this stuff. Disclose the full risk, take the stance that you want to lead the way instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming.

From the NFL's point of view, going back to when Tags was commissioner:

Assuming they have some nerds locked in a room crunching numbers regarding how many billions this will cost them...

1. What if we give the players healthcare for life, but the average lifespan increases to 120?

2. What if we delay the findings for 20 years and universal healthcare is enacted? Are we still on the hook for the same amount of damages? Healthcare for life?

3. What if we delay the findings for 30 years and a genetic component is revealed, then we can come out and say "The technology wasn't there before for us to understand this".

4. What if the full risk really isn't known?

etc,etc.

I'm not saying it's right, ideally a government would step in and bitchslap entities that try this sort of thing...but I can understand why they're not coming out and admitting to football being as bad as boxing for long term health.

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The NFL is always behind on this stuff. Disclose the full risk, take the stance that you want to lead the way instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming.

From the NFL's point of view, going back to when Tags was commissioner:

Assuming they have some nerds locked in a room crunching numbers regarding how many billions this will cost them...

1. What if we give the players healthcare for life, but the average lifespan increases to 120?

2. What if we delay the findings for 20 years and universal healthcare is enacted? Are we still on the hook for the same amount of damages? Healthcare for life?

3. What if we delay the findings for 30 years and a genetic component is revealed, then we can come out and say "The technology wasn't there before for us to understand this".

4. What if the full risk really isn't known?

etc,etc.

I'm not saying it's right, ideally a government would step in and bitchslap entities that try this sort of thing...but I can understand why they're not coming out and admitting to football being as bad as boxing for long term health.

You're dead on with that. Pencil pushers and lawyers sitting in a room calculating cost of change vs. litigation. That may have been a feasible line of defense before the mess they're in now.... but it's not anymore.

Similar to how carmakers decide when to issue recalls.... what's the cheapest out?

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The NFL is always behind on this stuff. Disclose the full risk, take the stance that you want to lead the way instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming.

From the NFL's point of view, going back to when Tags was commissioner:

Assuming they have some nerds locked in a room crunching numbers regarding how many billions this will cost them...

1. What if we give the players healthcare for life, but the average lifespan increases to 120?

2. What if we delay the findings for 20 years and universal healthcare is enacted? Are we still on the hook for the same amount of damages? Healthcare for life?

3. What if we delay the findings for 30 years and a genetic component is revealed, then we can come out and say "The technology wasn't there before for us to understand this".

4. What if the full risk really isn't known?

etc,etc.

I'm not saying it's right, ideally a government would step in and bitchslap entities that try this sort of thing...but I can understand why they're not coming out and admitting to football being as bad as boxing for long term health.

Right...I think this is a teachable moment for the league though. They should know, going forward, that if some serious doctors are coming to them with a general consensus that there's a health risk, and they should look to actionable methods for prevention, if their first instinct is, "less bury this sucker!" Not only is that morally reprehensible, but also in this age of social media, etc. SOMEONE is gonna find out about it, and then everyone will know.

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Let's not forget that for most athletes, loss of brain function is not an appreciable detriment.

Carry on...

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Let's not forget that for most athletes, loss of brain function is not an appreciable detriment.

Carry on...

I lol'ed. But then again...

Helmuth von Moltke (whom most would consider intelligent) was famous for the quote "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_von_Moltke_the_Elder

"The tactical result of an engagement forms the base for new strategic decisions because victory or defeat in a battle changes the situation to such a degree that no human acumen is able to see beyond the first battle. In this sense one should understand Napoleon's saying: "I have never had a plan of operations."

Therefore no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force"

An athlete whom many think of as not so bright made a similar observation.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson#On_boxing

"Everybody has a plan until they get hit. Then, like a rat, they stop in fear and freeze." - Mike Tyson

Sometimes you'll find wisdom in the strangest of places. Lets not pretend all of the players are worthless outside of football.

Edited by Iron-cock

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So when will you guys throw some blame on the NCAA, High Schools...parents-?

A lot of old football warriors limping & mumbling out there who never made it onto a NFL roster, where's their health coverage/punitive cash out ?

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So when will you guys throw some blame on the NCAA, High Schools...parents-?

A lot of old football warriors limping & mumbling out there who never made it onto a NFL roster, where's their health coverage/punitive cash out ?

As far as I know, there weren't any high schools or parents who worked to discredit corroborated medical research which demonstrated a health risk to football players, nor the NCAA. If that happened, shame on them as well.

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Prior to 2005, it was well-known that banging your head violently against something for 20-30 years would cause, at the very least, some level of brain damage.

It somehow took a paper written by Dr. Omalu et al. to give the condition a fancy name & label as a disease in order to raise concern & throw blame.

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So when will you guys throw some blame on the NCAA, High Schools...parents-?

A lot of old football warriors limping & mumbling out there who never made it onto a NFL roster, where's their health coverage/punitive cash out ?

As far as I know, there weren't any high schools or parents who worked to discredit corroborated medical research which demonstrated a health risk to football players, nor the NCAA. If that happened, shame on them as well.

Can't change the past, what is the NCAA doing for the health of its athletes going forward?...hoping they make it to the pros so they can escape mutual-culpability?

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So when will you guys throw some blame on the NCAA, High Schools...parents-?

A lot of old football warriors limping & mumbling out there who never made it onto a NFL roster, where's their health coverage/punitive cash out ?

As far as I know, there weren't any high schools or parents who worked to discredit corroborated medical research which demonstrated a health risk to football players, nor the NCAA. If that happened, shame on them as well.

Can't change the past, what is the NCAA doing for the health of its athletes going forward?...hoping they make it to the pros so they can escape mutual-culpability?

You're right, you can't change the past. But what I would hope, moving forward, is that neither the NCAA nor the NFL, upon receiving verified medical evidence that their athletes are succeptible to actionable health risks, choose to try and sweep this information under the rug.

You keep making this about pay outs. Frankly, I'm not a lawyer and I don't care about that. If a doctor found out tomorrow I had CTE I wouldn't be looking for a pay out. What I'm talking about is just acknowledging there is a problem.

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Prior to 2005, it was well-known that banging your head violently against something for 20-30 years would cause, at the very least, some level of brain damage.

It somehow took a paper written by Dr. Omalu et al. to give the condition a fancy name & label as a disease in order to raise concern & throw blame.

...and to discover the rate of incidence, and to determine specifically what part of the brain are effected, and to analyze case studies to demonstrate what the specific results would be. These things are all important if you might potentially have it, and aren't just soapboxing.

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2007: Dr. Ira Casson, co-chairman of the MTBI, says in an interview on HBO Real Sports that there is no link between head injuries and depression, dementia, early onset Alzheimer's, or "any long term problems."

A pamphlet is distributed to the players and reads in part, "Current research with professional athletes has not shown that having more than one or two concussions leads to permanent problems if each injury is managed properly

2008: An NFL-commissioned survey finds former players suffer Alzheimer's and dementia at a rate 19 times higher than for non-players between the ages of 30-49. The NFL calls the study inconclusive

2010: Casson appears before Congress. He says CTE "has never been linked to athletics or head trauma."

The MTBI is disbanded and a new committee formed. The co-chair of the new committee has strong words for Pellman, Casson, and the MTBI's studies:

"We all had issues with some of the methodologies described, the inherent conflict of interest that was there in many areas, that was not acceptable by any modern standards or not acceptable to us. I wouldn’t put up with that, our universities wouldn’t put up with that, and we don’t want our professional reputations damaged by conflicts that were put upon us."

http://deadspin.com/a-timeline-of-concussion-science-and-nfl-denial-1222395754

It starts out with the NCAA and concussion recommendations. Especially interesting is the part where one-two concussions (NFL standing) and what was concluded in 1933.

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Am I the only one thoroughly confused about what psygolf's end goal is here? Like, to what end is this argument being made? Just a really big Roger Goodell fan?

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Am I the only one thoroughly confused about what psygolf's end goal is here? Like, to what end is this argument being made? Just a really big Roger Goodell fan?

If u figure that one out, let us know...LOL

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Am I the only one thoroughly confused about what psygolf's end goal is here? Like, to what end is this argument being made? Just a really big Roger Goodell fan?

@Clown...My end goal/dream?? To be able to enjoy watching a physical sport without anyone complaining in the background that it is now too dangerous.

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Am I the only one thoroughly confused about what psygolf's end goal is here? Like, to what end is this argument being made? Just a really big Roger Goodell fan?

@Clown...My end goal/dream?? To be able to enjoy watching a physical sport without anyone complaining in the background that it is now too dangerous.

I think it's fairly obvious you understand that it was always a dangerous game. This is just a new potential danger that people may have had a vague understanding of that now has some more specificity.

I think virtually anyone you find here on the Rotoworld Fantasy Football forum likes football, and has no interest in seeing football cease to be played or fundamentally altered.

But I do think there are some people who still love football but don't condone the NFL trying to cover up facts about potential dangers to athletes. What the NFL does matters, to the NCAA, to high schools, to Pop Warner. And though I still love football, I think it's fairly obvious, they stepped in it here. I'd like to see them do better on these types of issues. Namely, just be honest, and address issues of player safety honestly.

That's all.

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Some want to continue the witch hunt, some want to see them to do more...myself, compared to the state of the game from when I started watching professional sports, mid-70 to present date, I've seen the NFL do more to protect the current & future health of the athletes in their fold than just about any other sport: drug-testing, rule-changes, and improvements in the protective equipment.

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Some want to continue the witch hunt, some want to see them to do more...myself, compared to the state of the game from when I started watching professional sports, mid-70 to present date, I've seen the NFL do more to protect the current & future health of the athletes in their fold than just about any other sport: drug-testing, rule-changes, and improvements in the protective equipment.

I wouldn't disagree with that. But this is an instance where the institution failed.

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It is impossible to throw legal blame on the NFL for one suffering from CTE, one would need a controlled test that does not exist.

Did playing in the NFL contribute? ...of course. Does the NFL have a responsibility to care for the future well-being of former players? ...well, that's a moral/ethical question that it will continually have to address.

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Here's a question...

exhibit A is Borland, who retired after his 1st year because of the "newly learned" risks.

exhibit B is Welker, who has continued to play against the advice of doctors because of multiple concussions, even though he is privy to the same information as A.

Q: Should the NFL cover the future medical care of B should he be troubled by the onset of CTE?

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Another question...

Because the medical data that suggests CTE is triggered in one who has received multiple concussions, maybe even as little as one major concussion - Should the NFL prevent ALL collegiate prospects who have had more than one documented concussion from entering the NFL, in order to protect their future health?

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It is impossible to throw legal blame on the NFL for one suffering from CTE, one would need a controlled test that does not exist.

Did playing in the NFL contribute? ...of course. Does the NFL have a responsibility to care for the future well-being of former players? ...well, that's a moral/ethical question that it will continually have to address.

I think any institution, when faced with medical evidence that has been verified, that working conditions contribute to a health detriment have an obligation to report that finding to their employees.

Wouldn't you agree?

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