FlashGordon401

Melvin Gordon 2017 Outlook

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21 minutes ago, KuNiT21 said:

 

Not sure about Denvers DLine health status, but I don't understand your argument here?  

 

Your last line is exactly the reason I stated I drafted him.  It's not volume dependent, the volume is already here just like last year was.  Is Gordon the old AP, Charles, Clinton Portis, LT?  No, he is not but Gordon performs when the volume is here and it's always been here. 

 

The formula is

Average RB + large majority 3 down back + extreme volume=fantasy winner.

 

So in other words, he's just like Lamar Miller last year. 

 

Everyone jumped on on the bandwagon and pushed a meh player up into elite waters all based on volume. 

 

How did that work out for Lamar owners last year??

 

If Gordon gets double digit TDs...his owners will probably skate by with his junk yardage. If he has 7 or 8 TDs, it's going to end up as a pretty blah pick that doesn't win championships. 

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"Average RB" doesn't do him justice.  He's a top ten-fifteen talent behind a bottom ten line. I thought he looked confident and quick Monday night.  Denver loaded the box to stop him and Rivers couldn't get thru the no fly zone. 

Edited by Lord_Varys

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17 minutes ago, Experienced Rookie said:

So in other words, he's just like Lamar Miller last year. 

 

Everyone jumped on on the bandwagon and pushed a meh player up into elite waters all based on volume. 

 

How did that work out for Lamar owners last year??

 

If Gordon gets double digit TDs...his owners will probably skate by with his junk yardage. If he has 7 or 8 TDs, it's going to end up as a pretty blah pick that doesn't win championships. 

 

Lamar Miller never demonstrated that he could handle a full workload. Drafters found out the hard way that he couldn't. There were several minor nagging injuries throughout the year limiting him. Gordon on the other hand demonstrated that he could handle a full load (although he went down with a more significant injury toward the end of the season). 

 

Man say what you want about the efficiency, but the yardage was there last year. Gordon averaged over 100 total yards per game last year (more than McCoy). So no, there's no need to "skate by" with his yardage assuming that the volume is unchanged. 

Edited by FinsUp24

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9 minutes ago, Lord_Varys said:

"Average RB" doesn't do him justice.  He's a top ten-fifteen talent behind a bottom ten line. I thought he looked confident and quick Monday night.  Denver loaded the box to stop him and Rivers couldn't get thru the no fly zone. 

Top 15 talent?

 

First of all, what is that really saying? How many starter worthy RBs are in the NFL? Barely cracking the top 15 is bordering on average at the position. 

 

Frankly, from a sheer talent perspective, nothing I've seen from him says that he's an elite talent. The guy is fast, and that's about it. He's landed in a pretty premium spot with a good offense that moves the ball, and nothing but total scrubs to push him for carries. 

 

I can easily come up with 15 RBs that I'd rather have for a real football team, and a whole host of other guys that he's on par with. 

 

Leveon, DJ, Zeke, McCoy, Freeman, Demarco Murray, Gurley, Fournette, Mark Ingram, Carlos Hyde, Doug Martin, Lamar Miller, Jordan Howard, Dalvin Cook, Kareem Hunt, Marshawn Lynch. I'll take all of those guys for 1 year of real football over Melvin. I don't even need to see more than 1 game from those rookies to know that they're better RBs. 

 

I plop Melvin in a lump group with CJ Anderson, Ameer Abdullah, Derrick Henry(who might very well be better than Melvin), Tevin Coleman, and Crowell. If any of those guys had Melvins plush situation I could easily see them outperforming his paltry sub 4 YPC non sense. 

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6 minutes ago, FinsUp24 said:

 

Lamar Miller never demonstrated that he could handle a full workload. Drafters found out the hard way that he couldn't. There were several minor nagging injuries throughout the year limiting him. Gordon on the other hand demonstrated that he could handle a full load (although he went down with a more significant injury toward the end of the season). 

 

Man say what you want about the efficiency, but the yardage was there last year. Gordon averaged over 100 total yards per game last year (more than McCoy). So no, there's no need to "skate by" with his yardage assuming that the volume is unchanged. 

WHAT? Go re-read your post. 

 

You crush Lamar for not being able to hold up to a pounding, and then excuse Gordon for getting hurt. You do realize Lamar had 200 carries in 2 straight years without missing a single game? You realize he had 268 carries last year and played 1 more game than Gordon? But Lamar folds up to injury...and Melvins injury is excusable? Cmon man...

 

Miller had a better YPC than Melvin while playing for a complete dumpster fire of an offense. How do you explain that? 

 

Swap them. Put Lamar on the Chargers and Melvin into that Brock Osweiler black hole of Houston. Melvin probably gets 3.2 YPC...or even less! 

 

Watch what another RB could do with Melvins situation. 

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5 hours ago, NYR Fan 116894 said:

 

I see something like this, and I just think thats cause of a rookie head coach, 62.5 % with 8 men in the box and he wasn't letting Rivers with Allen, Williams, Benjamin, Gates and Henry go after 1 on 1's is just bad coaching, almost like he had a rookie QB

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15 minutes ago, Experienced Rookie said:

Top 15 talent?

 

First of all, what is that really saying? How many starter worthy RBs are in the NFL? Barely cracking the top 15 is bordering on average at the position. 

 

Frankly, from a sheer talent perspective, nothing I've seen from him says that he's an elite talent. The guy is fast, and that's about it. He's landed in a pretty premium spot with a good offense that moves the ball, and nothing but total scrubs to push him for carries. 

 

I can easily come up with 15 RBs that I'd rather have for a real football team, and a whole host of other guys that he's on par with. 

 

Leveon, DJ, Zeke, McCoy, Freeman, Demarco Murray, Gurley, Fournette, Mark Ingram, Carlos Hyde, Doug Martin, Lamar Miller, Jordan Howard, Dalvin Cook, Kareem Hunt, Marshawn Lynch. I'll take all of those guys for 1 year of real football over Melvin. I don't even need to see more than 1 game from those rookies to know that they're better RBs. 

 

I plop Melvin in a lump group with CJ Anderson, Ameer Abdullah, Derrick Henry(who might very well be better than Melvin), Tevin Coleman, and Crowell. If any of those guys had Melvins plush situation I could easily see them outperforming his paltry sub 4 YPC non sense. 

 

you would rather have Gurley and his 2.0 vs Indy following a 3.1 season, Hyde and his never done anything, Martin and his world of inconsistency, Miller lol, and a 32 year old Marshawn over Gordon.

 

you just have some serious hate

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Golden Spikes said:

 

you would rather have Gurley and his 2.0 vs Indy following a 3.1 season, Hyde and his never done anything, Martin and his world of inconsistency, Miller lol, and a 32 year old Marshawn over Gordon.

 

you just have some serious hate

 

 

 

Agreed.  Wtf did i just read?  Gurley, Ingram, Hyde, Martin, Miller?  Along with 2 rookies who have had 1 good game.  Not seeing the logic here.  And for people who have seen Gordon play through his first 3 years, he's definitely shown elite talent.  Not sure how many of those RB's have had to deal with Gordon's O-Line issues the last 3 years either.  And he was still a top 5 back last year.

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47 minutes ago, Experienced Rookie said:

So in other words, he's just like Lamar Miller last year. 

 

Everyone jumped on on the bandwagon and pushed a meh player up into elite waters all based on volume. 

 

How did that work out for Lamar owners last year??

 

If Gordon gets double digit TDs...his owners will probably skate by with his junk yardage. If he has 7 or 8 TDs, it's going to end up as a pretty blah pick that doesn't win championships. 

 

Not even close to being Lamar Miller.  That's a lousy comparison.  I provided a very simplistic formula as to why I liked what I saw Week 1 and choose him in the 1st round above others.  If you wanted me to get into more detail I can.  The bottom line is this.  The Texans offense is garbage as it stand right now.  The Chargers offense is not.  I am not basing my opinion off of sheer talent as I have to keep explaining.  Phillip Rivers moves the ball quite often.  The opportunities are going to be there at the goal line hence Gordon's 10TDs last year.  He is also great catching out of the backfield.

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25 minutes ago, Experienced Rookie said:

WHAT? Go re-read your post. 

 

You crush Lamar for not being able to hold up to a pounding, and then excuse Gordon for getting hurt. You do realize Lamar had 200 carries in 2 straight years without missing a single game? You realize he had 268 carries last year and played 1 more game than Gordon? But Lamar folds up to injury...and Melvins injury is excusable? Cmon man...

 

Miller had a better YPC than Melvin while playing for a complete dumpster fire of an offense. How do you explain that? 

 

Swap them. Put Lamar on the Chargers and Melvin into that Brock Osweiler black hole of Houston. Melvin probably gets 3.2 YPC...or even less! 

 

Watch what another RB could do with Melvins situation. 

 

 

Uhhhh, Miller played behind the #11 O-Line last year.  What are you talking about?  For a stretch he led all backs with yards AFTER contact.  Miller wasn't getting blown up behind the line of scrimmage like Gordon was.

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33 minutes ago, Experienced Rookie said:

Top 15 talent?

 

First of all, what is that really saying? How many starter worthy RBs are in the NFL? Barely cracking the top 15 is bordering on average at the position. 

 

Frankly, from a sheer talent perspective, nothing I've seen from him says that he's an elite talent. The guy is fast, and that's about it. He's landed in a pretty premium spot with a good offense that moves the ball, and nothing but total scrubs to push him for carries. 

 

I can easily come up with 15 RBs that I'd rather have for a real football team, and a whole host of other guys that he's on par with. 

 

Leveon, DJ, Zeke, McCoy, Freeman, Demarco Murray, Gurley, Fournette, Mark Ingram, Carlos Hyde, Doug Martin, Lamar Miller, Jordan Howard, Dalvin Cook, Kareem Hunt, Marshawn Lynch. I'll take all of those guys for 1 year of real football over Melvin. I don't even need to see more than 1 game from those rookies to know that they're better RBs. 

 

I plop Melvin in a lump group with CJ Anderson, Ameer Abdullah, Derrick Henry(who might very well be better than Melvin), Tevin Coleman, and Crowell. If any of those guys had Melvins plush situation I could easily see them outperforming his paltry sub 4 YPC non sense. 

 

That is crazy talk.  You don't get 12 touchdowns in a shortened season in the NFL by accident.   

 I agree that melvin Gordon isn't special but damn the hate is strong with you 

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21 minutes ago, KuNiT21 said:

 

Not even close to being Lamar Miller.  That's a lousy comparison.  I provided a very simplistic formula as to why I liked what I saw Week 1 and choose him in the 1st round above others.  If you wanted me to get into more detail I can.  The bottom line is this.  The Texans offense is garbage as it stand right now.  The Chargers offense is not.  I am not basing my opinion off of sheer talent as I have to keep explaining.  Phillip Rivers moves the ball quite often.  The opportunities are going to be there at the goal line hence Gordon's 10TDs last year.  He is also great catching out of the backfield.

And I was talking about the similarity in ADP. People were loving Lamar a year ago for the hopeful workload, just like Gordon this year. 

 

Im not saying that Lamar is a better fantasy player...I'm saying he's a better football player, as are lots of running backs. 

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14 minutes ago, Chase4181 said:

 

That is crazy talk.  You don't get 12 touchdowns in a shortened season in the NFL by accident.   

 I agree that melvin Gordon isn't special but damn the hate is strong with you 

And you don't get 0 TDs in a 200 carry year by accident either...

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21 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

 

Uhhhh, Miller played behind the #11 O-Line last year.  What are you talking about?  For a stretch he led all backs with yards AFTER contact.  Miller wasn't getting blown up behind the line of scrimmage like Gordon was.

How is Miller leading the league in yards after contact supposed to be a knock on him? 

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1 minute ago, Experienced Rookie said:

How is Miller leading the league in yards after contact supposed to be a knock on him? 

 

That was Gordon that was.

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31 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Agreed.  Wtf did i just read?  Gurley, Ingram, Hyde, Martin, Miller?  Along with 2 rookies who have had 1 good game.  Not seeing the logic here.  And for people who have seen Gordon play through his first 3 years, he's definitely shown elite talent.  Not sure how many of those RB's have had to deal with Gordon's O-Line issues the last 3 years either.  And he was still a top 5 back last year.

Top 5 RB in fantasy does not equate to top 5 REAL RB, and that's what I'm talking about here. 

 

Ive seen Gordon play. A lot actually. I see a guy with tremendous breakaway speed who has a real knack for letting the first guy to touch him bring him down. 

 

Even with Gurleys recent meh play, I still see a better RB. Stick Melvin on that putrid LAR team and see what he does. Watch what happens to him if he's forced to swap spots with a guy like Carlos Hyde. 

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Yeah, he only put up 16.4 in half ppr on the road in Denver, with a mostly negative game script, apparently against  8+ defenders in the box on 62.5% of his non-red zone carries. Time to fade him.

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6 minutes ago, b_23 said:

Yeah, he only put up 16.4 in half ppr on the road in Denver, with a mostly negative game script, apparently against  8+ defenders in the box on 62.5% of his non-red zone carries. Time to fade him.

 

 

Right?  People are losing grasp on reality.  He put up 18 points on the road against arguably the best D in the league with a stacked box.  Time to jump ship!

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8 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

 

Right?  People are losing grasp on reality.  He put up 18 points on the road against arguably the best D in the league with a stacked box.  Time to jump ship!

 

yes the Broncos are very good overall, but the defensive line they trotted out there was god awful.

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There is seriously no excuse for 7 carries for 6 yards. None. And the denvers d line is their clear weakness in the unit.

 

The issue here is playcalling, a bad line, and amateur coaching.

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Regardless of his talent level he's got one of the best situations in the league. Chargers have proven they'll ride or die with Gordon.

 

Rock solid hold on the job in what looks like to be a decent offense. Schedule could be better, but not much to worry about outside of injury.

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11 hours ago, Experienced Rookie said:

Top 5 RB in fantasy does not equate to top 5 REAL RB, and that's what I'm talking about here. 

 

 

 

Last I checked nobody in here is the GM of a real NFL team. I don't care if he's RB60 in real life... if he's a fantasy RB1 I'll take it. 

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2 hours ago, Bendr said:

 

Last I checked nobody in here is the GM of a real NFL team. I don't care if he's RB60 in real life... if he's a fantasy RB1 I'll take it. 

Well that's terrific for you. We were having a conversation about Gordon as a real player though. That's a status that will eventually effect his ability to put up fantasy stats. 

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