smeeze

Brandin Cooks 2017 Season Outlook

678 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Blazer said:

Draft Cooks as a WR #3/4. Simple. No way he is going to produce WR 1/2 stats. Even if 40 YO Brady is all aces this year, there are way too many mouths to feed that he already knows and trusts. For FF, there are prolly 15 WRs that will likely provide more reliable WR production. To me, Cooks in NE is just another RB gamble in NE -- boom or bust, good luck figuring that out.

 

Why can't he produce WR2 stats? Why won't targets get funneled his way so he produces WR2 stats? 

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1 hour ago, Blazer said:

Draft Cooks as a WR #3/4. Simple. No way he is going to produce WR 1/2 stats. Even if 40 YO Brady is all aces this year, there are way too many mouths to feed that he already knows and trusts. For FF, there are prolly 15 WRs that will likely provide more reliable WR production. To me, Cooks in NE is just another RB gamble in NE -- boom or bust, good luck figuring that out.

So, in other words, he's a fairly high end WR2 (WR13-24). Or if you play in 10 team leagues, that's a mid WR2.  

 

If you play in 8 team leagues, that's fine.  I have and they're fun for different reasons.  But it does skew the perception from the majority of FF players.

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11 hours ago, smeeze said:

For those saying he's a huge candidate to be over-drafted: I have a hard time seeing even the casual fans reaching for him over the following guys: AB84, Julio, OBJ, Evans, AJG, Dez, TY and Jordy.  That would mean he's being drafted as the WR9 and considering he finished as the WR8 last year, seems about right.  It's entirely possible guys like Cooper, M. Thomas, Nuk, ARob and Keenan end up slotting ahead of him in terms of ADP so there could definitely be some value to be had here.

Keenan?  Are you kidding me?

M.Thomas I'd take over him without hesitation. 

Nuk is questionable until we see who's throwing him the rock.

I agree that Cooper, ARob are in the same ballpark.   

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Let's play compare the WR's.  

 

Standard (PPR) [spoiler tag for length]

 

 Player 1

26.3 (32.3)

6.8 (13.8)

1.3 (3.3)

3.1 (6.1)

23.3 (30.3)

11.8 (18.8)

10.4 (14.4)

6.6 (11.6)

15.8 (18.8)

4.2 (11.2)

0

7.3 (14.3)

6.1 (11.1)

30.6 (37.6)

9.8 (14.8)

 

Player 2

12.6 (16.6)

16.6 (21.6)

1.6 (2.6)

36 (48)

2.9 (4.9)

19.9 (26.9)

17.4 (26.4)

2.9 (5.9)

17.1 (25.1)

13.5 (23.5)

3.5 (7.5)

11.3 (18.3)

6.0 (10.0)

 

Player 3

15.9 (20.9)

13.0 (19.0)

19.2 (29.2)

5.9 (10.9)

14.9 (20.9)

21.6 (29.6)

5.0 (9.0)

27.0 (38.0)

6.6 (10.6)

10.5 (16.5)

22.4 (30.4)

3.8 (6.8)

4.2 (8.2)

5.9 (9.9)

15.7 (22.7)

 

My personal threshold for an awful game from a good WR is around 6 points in standard (what I play).  If you can't get 60 yards or a TD, I consider it a failed game.  Adjust as you feel necessary, but I've bolded my bad games from these guys.  Two of the players listed are unquestionable round 1 picks in standard, let alone PPR.  They have as many awful games as Cooks. 

 

 

 

 

Player 1: Cooks

Player 2: Julio

Player 3: Evans

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ffguy0087 said:

Cooks, Julio, Evans.

 

Is this a list sorted descending by latitude of the player's home field?

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16 minutes ago, Lord_Varys said:

 

Is this a list sorted descending by latitude of the player's home field?

It's the players I listed. I'm obviously not a huge cooks fan, but he didn't have that many awful games compared to other (better) fantasy receivers. He had a few more meh games, which is why he isn't being drafted in the top 10 overall.

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11 hours ago, psygolf said:

Nobody thought Alshon was as good as Marshall when he was a bear, except maybe his haters after the trade.

 

 

 alshon+bmarsh were always considered complementary  big targets that cutler would crush with. Didnt happen that way due to injuries and cutler not exploiting their talents  but on paper they were monsters to defend

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23 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

 alshon+bmarsh were always considered complementary  big targets that cutler would crush with. Didnt happen that way due to injuries and cutler not exploiting their talents  but on paper they were monsters to defend

 

Cutler not taking advantage of Jeffrey, Marshall and Bennett is probably one of the most frustrating occurrences in football of the last 10 years. It basically turned Cutler into the Martin Shkreli of the NFL for me.

Edited by FreakFries
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15 hours ago, FreakFries said:

 

Cutler not taking advantage of Jeffrey, Marshall and Bennett is probably one of the most frustrating occurrences in football of the last 10 years. It basically turned Cutler into the Martin Shkreli of the NFL for me.

 

Especially when Josh McCown did...literally during the same season, yet they chose to give Cutler that contract. SMH.

 

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On 3/16/2017 at 11:38 PM, jbshaw said:

Let's play compare the WR's.  

 

Standard (PPR) [spoiler tag for length]

  Hide contents

 Player 1

26.3 (32.3)

6.8 (13.8)

1.3 (3.3)

3.1 (6.1)

23.3 (30.3)

11.8 (18.8)

10.4 (14.4)

6.6 (11.6)

15.8 (18.8)

4.2 (11.2)

0

7.3 (14.3)

6.1 (11.1)

30.6 (37.6)

9.8 (14.8)

 

Player 2

12.6 (16.6)

16.6 (21.6)

1.6 (2.6)

36 (48)

2.9 (4.9)

19.9 (26.9)

17.4 (26.4)

2.9 (5.9)

17.1 (25.1)

13.5 (23.5)

3.5 (7.5)

11.3 (18.3)

6.0 (10.0)

 

Player 3

15.9 (20.9)

13.0 (19.0)

19.2 (29.2)

5.9 (10.9)

14.9 (20.9)

21.6 (29.6)

5.0 (9.0)

27.0 (38.0)

6.6 (10.6)

10.5 (16.5)

22.4 (30.4)

3.8 (6.8)

4.2 (8.2)

5.9 (9.9)

15.7 (22.7)

 

My personal threshold for an awful game from a good WR is around 6 points in standard (what I play).  If you can't get 60 yards or a TD, I consider it a failed game.  Adjust as you feel necessary, but I've bolded my bad games from these guys.  Two of the players listed are unquestionable round 1 picks in standard, let alone PPR.  They have as many awful games as Cooks. 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Player 1: Cooks

Player 2: Julio

Player 3: Evans

 

 

 

This is a pretty good argument against taking Julio over a top-tier RB -- so many of his points last year came in that one 300-yard game, and he burned everyone in the fantasy playoffs.  But it's not necessarily an argument for Cooks -- these numbers are exactly why it's better to choose higher-floor, consistent WRs rather than just looking at last year's point total.

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47 minutes ago, eg4190 said:

 

This is a pretty good argument against taking Julio over a top-tier RB -- so many of his points last year came in that one 300-yard game, and he burned everyone in the fantasy playoffs.  But it's not necessarily an argument for Cooks -- these numbers are exactly why it's better to choose higher-floor, consistent WRs rather than just looking at last year's point total.

Antonio Brown is the only one all that better than Evans or Julio in regards to consistency. Have fun never finding an appropriate wr if you're looking for every week consistency.

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1 hour ago, jbshaw said:

Antonio Brown is the only one all that better than Evans or Julio in regards to consistency. Have fun never finding an appropriate wr if you're looking for every week consistency.

TY was pretty consistent last season

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nfl.png?w=100&h=100&transparent=true

Robert Kraft: Brandin Cooks acquisition similar to Randy Moss

"Since I've owned the team, the only player that could make an impact like that at wide receiver was Randy Moss," Robert Kraft said of Brandin Cooks. Mark J. Rebilas/USA TODAY Sports

 

Mike ReissESPN Staff Writer 

PHOENIX -- The New England Patriots had never traded a first-round draft choice away for a player on another team’s roster until they shipped the No. 32 overall selection to the New Orleans Saints for wide receiver Brandin Cooks earlier this month. That reflects how strongly the Patriots feel about Cooks, with owner Robert Kraft taking it up to a higher level on Monday at the NFL’s annual meeting.

 

“Since I’ve owned the team, the only player that could make an impact like that at wide receiver was Randy Moss. He doesn’t have his height, but it looks like he has his speed,” Kraft said. “I think that’s complementary to what we have on the team, and I’m excited about enjoying this.”

Mentioning Cooks (5-foot-10, 189 pounds) in the same sentence as Moss (6-foot-4, 210) was arguably the most notable thing that Kraft said in his 16-minute Q&A session with reporters.

 

Those who watched joint practices between the Patriots and Saints each of the last two years saw firsthand how explosive Cooks can be. Since Cooks entered the NFL as a first-round draft choice of the Saints in 2014, his production has been hard to miss: 215 catches for 2,861 yards (13.3 average) with 20 touchdowns. Now he’ll be added to a receiving corps that includes Julian EdelmanChris HoganMalcolm Mitchell and Danny Amendola, giving an already-potent offense another dangerous threat.

 

When Moss came aboard in 2007, the offensive fireworks came quickly. Kraft and the Patriots are hoping 2017 will be déjà vu with Cooks.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4802150/robert-kraft-brandin-cooks-acquisition-similar-to-randy-moss

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key word "similar"  and I like how he refers to speed but comments but lacks the height as if that somehow is not much of a factor. The acquisition is similar but I doubbt the playmaking will be.  Nice promotion work but lets not wander into the area of delusion. Moss was a once in a generation hall of Fame football talent that changed the league and cooks is a talented WR in the NFL that the only comp u can truly make

Edited by dashoe

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27 minutes ago, dashoe said:

key word "similar"  and I like how he refers to speed but comments but lacks the height as if that somehow is not much of a factor. The acquisition is similar but I doubbt the playmaking will be.  Nice promotion work but lets not wander into the area of delusion. Moss was a once in a generation hall of Fame football talent that changed the league and cooks is a talented WR in the NFL that the only comp u can truly make

You were correct to note the key word in the Moss-Cooks acquisition comparison as being "similar". In other words, not exactly the same.

I haven't heard anyone claim the two players, or situations, were exactly the same. They are similar.

 

They are similar (not exactly the same) in terms of the offensive impact/production they are expected to provide, not the manner in which they are expected to provide it. 

Edited by Lamont Sanford

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Can't wait for dabeesta to chime in and tell us why Robert Kraft is wrong.

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11 minutes ago, Lord_Varys said:

Can't wait for dabeesta to chime in and tell us why Robert Kraft is wrong.

Because Randy Moss is taller.

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4 hours ago, dashoe said:

Moss was a once in a generation hall of Fame football talent that changed the league

And yet without disputing this claim in the least, the reality is that over the next 3 years, Cooks has a decent chance to outproduce him in both catches and yards. *Relative to their time in NE.  You are correct that Cooks simply lacks the size of Moss, and for that reason won't hold a candle to Moss' TD numbers, no one is arguing otherwise.

 

Over his 3 years with NE Moss averaged 83/1255.

Cooks' last 2 years with NO has averaged 81/1156.

 

.1 catch and 6 yards a game.

That's what it would take for Cooks to match Moss's production 'between the 20s'.

 

We are not comparing their talent, nor their effect on the game, or even this offense.  We are comparing the stats they put up as the #1 outside WR for NE, and how it possibly correlates to Cooks' fantasy value in 2017.

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I love how the word "similar" is in the headline.  I only wish Kraft would have uttered it himself.

On 3/11/2017 at 11:51 AM, Lord_Varys said:

He's similar to Moss in that his athleticism and measurables make him such a unique mismatch.

 

Hate to be this guy, but...  Who am I kidding?  No I don't.

On 3/11/2017 at 1:42 PM, dabeesta17 said:

let's not even pump the brakes on that kind of stuff; let's just stop it altogether.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 2:22 PM, dabeesta17 said:

when Cooks can snatch footballs one-handed out of the air like its nothing (at 1:26); then you can mention his name in the same sentence as Moss.

 

Technically Kraft did not explicitly mention Cooks and Moss in the same sentence, only implicitly:

Quote

On 3/27/2017, Robert Kraft said:

“Since I’ve owned the team, the only player that could make an impact like that at wide receiver was Randy Moss. He doesn’t have his height, but it looks like he has his speed,”

 

 

All in good fun, @dabeesta17 .  Just had to jab you!

Edited by Lord_Varys

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Don't really care personally. Cooks will not be on any of my rosters. Too streaky, too small, too much competition for targets in a balanced offense (after leaving a pass-first offense), and he's whiny. Kraft talking up his own players; great. Hope he and those invested in fantasy get the performances they desire. Good luck.

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There is a difference in comparing him to Moss and comparing the acquisitions, the latter of which is what Kraft did. Adding a talented receiver is always nice though. That is far as that comparison goes. Moss was a steal with a late round pick sent to Oakland. The Patriots sent a late 1st rounder to the Saints for Cooks.

 

Is Cooks better than all of the receivers currently on the roster? Yes. Not going any further than that though.

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27 minutes ago, devaster said:

There is a difference in comparing him to Moss and comparing the acquisitions, the latter of which is what Kraft did. Adding a talented receiver is always nice though. That is far as that comparison goes. Moss was a steal with a late round pick sent to Oakland. The Patriots sent a late 1st rounder to the Saints for Cooks.

 

Is Cooks better than all of the receivers currently on the roster? Yes. Not going any further than that though.

To your first point, nobody ever compared them as players. That was thinly veiled misdirection by the anti-Cooks crowd. They were compared solely as explosive offensive acquisitions by the pro-Cooks crowd.....and Robert Kraft.

 

To your 2nd point, do we really need to go any further than that? Cooks, already a top 12 fantasy WR1, just became the best WR on the best team in the NFL, with the greatest coach of all time, and the greatest QB of all time, arguably the greatest QB currently. All we Cooks supporters are saying is that it stands to reason that Cooks will likely have his best year yet, which is pretty exciting for a a guy who is already top 12. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lamont Sanford said:

To your first point, nobody ever compared them as players. That was thinly veiled misdirection by the anti-Cooks crowd. They were compared solely as explosive offensive acquisitions by the pro-Cooks crowd.....and Robert Kraft.

 

To your 2nd point, do we really need to go any further than that? Cooks, already a top 12 fantasy WR1, just became the best WR on the best team in the NFL, with the greatest coach of all time, and the greatest QB of all time, arguably the greatest QB currently. All we Cooks supporters are saying is that it stands to reason that Cooks will likely have his best year yet, which is pretty exciting for a a guy who is already top 12. 

 

 

 

 

I think he wont do that much more than he did with Brees. He was boom or bust on the saints and I think he will be even more boom or bust on Pats fantasy wise. same as anyone not named Gronk or edelman

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12 minutes ago, dashoe said:

I think he wont do that much more than he did with Brees. He was boom or bust on the saints and I think he will be even more boom or bust on Pats fantasy wise. same as anyone not named Gronk or edelman

 

To your first point, I agree.  Brees threw for 5,200 yards and 37 TDs.  The size of the pie doesn't get any bigger.  Not only that, but the Saints don't have as good of weapons as NE either.  Cooks had less competition there.

 

To your second point, I disagree that Edelman will not be boom-bust.  Cooks I believe absolutely supplants Edelman in the pecking order.  He's aging and slowing and Cooks is better in just about every category, so you can be sure that Hoodie will find a way to prioritize Cooks.

 

That said...  Cooks can supplant Edelman, but that doesn't mean Jules is going away.  He had 160 targets last year, 151 in 2013, 134 in 14 games in 2014.  Cooks COULD come in and take over that role completely and get 150 targets and do more with them than Edelman has done (average 11.9 yards per rec), but I'm not betting on it.  Can any of us really expect him to just come right in and command 10 targets per game?  That's asking a lot.

 

Brady paced for 576 attempts last year.  He threw 624 times the previous year.  Let's split the difference and assumes he attempts 600 passes this year:

Gronk: 130

Cooks: 130

Edelman: 130

 

Would only leave 210 for Hogan, Mitchell, Amendola, White, Lewis, Burkhead.  Throw Amendola out and that's still only 45 targets per player.

 

I guess this is all to say: it's gonna be really crowded in NE and on Tom's stat sheet.

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