FreakFries

Jimmy Garoppolo 2017 Season Outlook

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Also as far as Cleveland, there's this:

"Also, because Garoppolo’s leverage was indicating to potential suitors (i.e. Cleveland) that he wouldn’t do re-sign long term if he didn’t like the situation, the Patriots weren’t in the driver’s seat completely when it came to dealing him."

 

And BB on trading Jimmy:

“It is just not sustainable given the way that things are set up,” said Belichick on a conference call. “Definitely not something we wanted to walk away from and I felt we rode it out as long as we could. We’ve, over a period of time, explored every option possible to sustain it but, at this point, it felt like we had to make a decision. It’s a very complex situation on multiple levels. This is really the last window that we had and we did what we felt was best for the team.”

""I'd say when a player gets to a certain point in his career...at some point it becomes year to year,” Belichick said. “The expectations aren't over a long period of time or a longer window like they would be with a younger player coming into the league when you look at a player's growth from 3-5 years...When you get players that have reached a certain point, then it's their ability to maintain, although they can work to improve on little things, techniques, skills like that...But it's more of a maintenance and maintaining that high level of play, their maximum level of play, wherever that level is that they've reached and trying to sustain that. Trying to predict that, I don't think it's easy. It's not something I try to do a lot of. I try to look at it year to year. I learned that a long time ago. I'd say that advice has served me well.""

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13 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

I've also read they were offering Jimmy starter money to stay as a backup, but he wouldn't take it because they wouldn't guarantee when he would play.

Maybe that explains why BB is so mad at the Brady fitness guru guy.

He's probably pissed because Brady is supposed to be retired by now and Jimmy should be taking over.

LOL. I doubt he's upset he has to coach Brady too long. 😂 

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23 hours ago, dashoe said:

I'm a Jimmy G fan too but the quickest release statement since Marino comes from his college coach last I read. Andy Dalton has one of the quickest release times but he isnt winning any QB of the year awards. I also recall kurt Warner had a quick release learned from playing arena ball but what really matters is making the quickest decision on what to do with the ball before you release

 

I see JG's release as definitely quicker than Dalton's.  It is quicker than Warner's too IMO.  It is on par with Marino's.

 

Most top QB's are elite in their decision-making.  JG has (or will have) many peers in the regard.  What sets him apart though from other great QB's in the league is his release.  That is what is different.  As I said in my original post, vision, pocket presence, mobility, etc. are talents that other QBs bring to the table.  That release though, is special, and there is no defense to it.

 

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3 hours ago, ST. STEVEN said:

In dynasty leagues, how many qb's would you take ahead of Jimmy G?? Just trying to gauge-

I own him in my dynasty, and I wouldn't consider anyone other than maybe Deshaun over him. And that's an if. Jimmy G is the real deal. 

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2 hours ago, sasnumberonefan said:

I own him in my dynasty, and I wouldn't consider anyone other than maybe Deshaun over him. And that's an if. Jimmy G is the real deal. 

 

 I think people are going to push expectations for deshaun too high. Defenses are smart and they adjust and he is a young QB. What the Texans need to do is get the running game fixed in the offseason to help him out and they have to get him a vet QB to mentor him and help him with progress to the next level.

I think Jimmy will be the more consistent week to week QB in the shanny system. So let other spend big on deshaun and i will try to catch jimmy if  he falls far enough

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3 hours ago, sasnumberonefan said:

I own him in my dynasty, and I wouldn't consider anyone other than maybe Deshaun over him. And that's an if. Jimmy G is the real deal. 

 

I would take Carson Wentz over Jimmy G right now.

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2 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

I would take Carson Wentz over Jimmy G right now.

Knew I was forgetting someone, Wentz is 1 for me. Jimmy G is 2. Thanks. 

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Jiimmy G is only a few years younger than Russ, I'd still take Russ

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5 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

Jiimmy G is only a few years younger than Russ, I'd still take Russ

 

I would love to see how great of a passer Wilson could be if Petey Boy invested in an o-line  and some big bodied wr's so he wouldnt have to spend 1/3 of the game scrambling around his backfield. 

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3 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

I would love to see how great of a passer Wilson could be if Petey Boy invested in an o-line  and some big bodied wr's so he wouldnt have to spend 1/3 of the game scrambling around his backfield. 

 

I think Jimmy G can be  a really good NFL QB without being a fantasy beast. There are plenty of those guys. Rivers comes to mind. Russ has already been a beast. Unless you are worried about him breaking up, not sure why you'd take jimmy G over him.

I feel like people forgot that Jimmy G isn't 22.

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10 hours ago, Gohawks said:

Probably to tank. Once their other guy went down they had no choice. I think they knew all along he was their guy otherwise they wouldn't trade for him. 

No kidding they thought he was the guy along. 

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10 hours ago, The Gridiron Assassin said:

John Lynch the real MVP :D

LOL. Yes. 😂 Sometimes people don't get IT. He is a good and has IT, real estate says win win chicken dinner. 🤣

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15 hours ago, ST. STEVEN said:

In dynasty leagues, how many qb's would you take ahead of Jimmy G?? Just trying to gauge-

 

Rodgers and the 4 W's (Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Winston), Newton, and Prescott 

 

I'd slot Jimmy in the same class as Cousins, Goff, Luck, and D Carr. I'm not sure who is more valuable. Each have injury issues or I just don't trust Cousins or Goff enough to draft them in a dynasty as my #1 QB ahead of the other guys. 

 

To rank Jimmy ahead of the guys I listed in BOLD to me would be overrating him vastly. Put him in front of Carr or Luck or Cousins and I wouldn't be all that upset. Jared Goff is somewhere in thisThose guys (in bold) are proven Vets who are still in their 20's except for Rodgers but I think Aaron Rodgers can play to his 40's in today's NFL. I guess if you are afraid of A-Rod breaking down in his mid- late 30's than I guess you can knock him down a peg or two and place him in the injury zone where Luck is but my philosophy in NFL dynasty leagues is this. Don't be planning your team beyond 3 years. Aaron Rodgers should still perform at a high level for the next 3-5 years. I wouldn't pass on him just because another guy is a few years younger. If you're gonna pass on him let it be about his injury history not his age. 

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34 minutes ago, Cdub2k said:

 

Rodgers and the 4 W's (Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Winston), Newton, and Prescott 

 

I'd slot Jimmy in the same class as Cousins, Goff, Luck, and D Carr. I'm not sure who is more valuable. Each have injury issues or I just don't trust Cousins or Goff enough to draft them in a dynasty as my #1 QB ahead of the other guys. 

 

To rank Jimmy ahead of the guys I listed in BOLD to me would be overrating him vastly. Put him in front of Carr or Luck or Cousins and I wouldn't be all that upset. Jared Goff is somewhere in thisThose guys (in bold) are proven Vets who are still in their 20's except for Rodgers but I think Aaron Rodgers can play to his 40's in today's NFL. I guess if you are afraid of A-Rod breaking down in his mid- late 30's than I guess you can knock him down a peg or two and place him in the injury zone where Luck is but my philosophy in NFL dynasty leagues is this. Don't be planning your team beyond 3 years. Aaron Rodgers should still perform at a high level for the next 3-5 years. I wouldn't pass on him just because another guy is a few years younger. If you're gonna pass on him let it be about his injury history not his age. 

For me I go Watson, Wentz, Garoppolo in that order. And distance after that. For dynasty.

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People sure are fired up about a guy with a 4 game sample size. 

 

Mark Sanchez took the Jets to two AFC title games and beat the Patriots in the playoffs. Colin Kaepernik was supposed to be the "new" QB of the future and he took the 49ers to NFC title game and Super Bowl. Hell, there was a time when everyone thought Jay Jerk-Face Cutler was a great QB after he had that season in Denver. 

 

JG might have a nice run as a QB, he might even be great, but two facts remain that should give people pause before crowning JG a great or even good QB and taking g him over D Watson or R Wilson in dynasty: 1) The Pats have a history of talking up their back up QB as The  Coming and trading them away. M Cassel, Ryan Mallet and Brian Hoyer all had the same narrative as JG. None of them lived up to it; 2) The Pats got a 2nd round pick! for an unproven soon to be free agent QB with, at the time, a 2 game sample size. 

 

JG has been good with the 49ers. I think he could be good next year. But I am still skeptical he is worth the 49ers blowing a 2nd round pick and ALL their bargaining leverage. To be honest, given the Pats history, I'm more willing to bet they got burned. We'll see.

 

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21 hours ago, PizzaBeerFF said:

According to all the things I've seen...

They kept him as long as they could without losing all value. They weren't going to franchise tag Jimmy, therefore he would walk in free agency. There was no leverage left. So getting a 2nd and a back up replacement familiar with the team(Hoyer) is about all they could get back for Jimmy unless they were willing to negotiate with Cleveland. But there is reputable insider saying Bellicheck didn't think sending Jimmy to Cleveland was doing Jimmy right.

The only way Jimmy would be playing for pats is if Brady was traded. Which I believe not trading Brady is the right thing to do when you have arguably the best qb and/or player of all time. I am confident between Bellicheck and McDaniel they will draft and groom a young qb. Assuming Bellicheck doesn't retire or McDaniel doesn't leave to be head coach somewhere. 

 

 

A few counters and one agreement to this:

 

1) Is the difference between the 38th pick (SF pick estimate) and the 97th pick in the draft, which is the compensation the Pats would have received if Garoppolo walked, worth the insurance policy Garoppolo provided if Brady got hurt this season?  If Brady goes down, their season is over.  I think we can all agree to that.  If Brady went down with Garoppolo still present, the team's Superbowl hopes would remain intact.

 

2) I'm not sure of the Cap impacts, but some Franchised players can still receive offers from other teams, and if you choose to decline matching you are rewarded with 2 1st round picks.  It's revisionist history, but do you think any team wouldn't offer two 1st round picks for the rights to sign Garoppolo long term at this point?  What the world is now seeing and understanding, was already known in New England.  Garoppolo is a future Franchise QB.  As bad as Cleveland has been, they have a good WR corp, a good TE, two serviceable running backs, and a decent offensive line.  Their QBs have just been HORRIBLE.  I don't think he would have been in the worst spot in Cleveland, and I'm certain after going 1-31 over two seasons and passing on a handful of Franchise QBs, they would have given up 2 1sts for him.

 

3) I think the idea of doing Jimmy right is completely true.  I also think it's rooted in a bit of "I told you so" by Belicheck.  Matt Ryan sucks, not sure if that's a bold statement at this point, but the guy has had one exemplary season in his career, and been average the rest of it.  He sucked in his first full season under Shanahan, and exploded in year 2.  Garoppolo is without a doubt in my mind better than Matt Ryan in every facet of the game, and will have success on par annually with Matt Ryan's MVP season as long as they surround him with more talent.  I think Belicheck, if he couldn't have Garoppolo, wanted him to succeed and continue his legacy in that way.

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2 hours ago, FreakFries said:

People sure are fired up about a guy with a 4 game sample size. 

 

Mark Sanchez took the Jets to two AFC title games and beat the Patriots in the playoffs. Colin Kaepernik was supposed to be the "new" QB of the future and he took the 49ers to NFC title game and Super Bowl. Hell, there was a time when everyone thought Jay Jerk-Face Cutler was a great QB after he had that season in Denver. 

 

JG might have a nice run as a QB, he might even be great, but two facts remain that should give people pause before crowning JG a great or even good QB and taking g him over D Watson or R Wilson in dynasty: 1) The Pats have a history of talking up their back up QB as The  Coming and trading them away. M Cassel, Ryan Mallet and Brian Hoyer all had the same narrative as JG. None of them lived up to it; 2) The Pats got a 2nd round pick! for an unproven soon to be free agent QB with, at the time, a 2 game sample size. 

 

JG has been good with the 49ers. I think he could be good next year. But I am still skeptical he is worth the 49ers blowing a 2nd round pick and ALL their bargaining leverage. To be honest, given the Pats history, I'm more willing to bet they got burned. We'll see.

 

Sanchez and Kaepernick were on great teams when they took over at QB. The Jets had one of the best defenses and a strong running game. Thomas Jones was still churning out 1000 yard seasons and they got the end of LT's career and he still looked like he had juice. The 49ers went to the NFC championship and lost the year before Kaepernick was handed the job mid-season over Alex Smith. They had a great defense, a strong running game (Gore in prime), and some good receivers with the quality veteran Boldin there (or maybe it was Torrey Smith and other players I forget). And they both had top tier OLines.

 

Sanchez was never asked to do much the first few years they went to the AFC championship except to hand the ball off. When they eventually put more on his plate he struggled and fell on his face. Same goes for Kaepernick. Especially after the defense started getting older and lost talent to injury/FA. And when Harbaugh left his regression became even more evident.

 

Jimmy G has a 6+ game sample size now. He has led the 49ers to a 4-0 record since joining the starting lineup of the team. He is playing very well, despite the offense being bereft of talent. The OLine is garbage right now and missing its top players to injury. Receivers are a joke and missing top one to injury. He hasn't had much to work with, but he is elevating the talent around him and succeeding where others couldn't. That is the mark of a great QB. It is still too early to tell, but I'm seeing signs. He just put a beat down on the vaunted Jags defense.

 

49ers potentially have a franchise QB for a 2nd round draft pick. They win this deal easily. Jimmy G isn't going anywhere in the off season. He will get the franchise tag while they work on a long-term contract. As long as he wants to be there he will sign a long-term deal. The 49ers aren't going to low ball Jimmy G like the Redskins continually did with Cousins. And Jimmy G looks like he will be a great franchise QB, whereas Cousins looks like a system QB that can play well but never win the big one. Cousins is still worth paying top dollar for, because that is what the position demands, but I would put Jimmy G in the tier above Cousins. Jimmy G looks like he could join the elite group.

Edited by devaster
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3 hours ago, FreakFries said:

JG has been good with the 49ers. I think he could be good next year. But I am still skeptical he is worth the 49ers blowing a 2nd round pick and ALL their bargaining leverage. To be honest, given the Pats history, I'm more willing to bet they got burned. We'll see.

 

As devaster reminds us, JG joined a near winless team, he got hooked up with one of the two or three best offensive minds in the league, and a 6 game sample size has real meaning.  Finally, we all have eyes.  JG has not been succeeding with smoke and mirrors.  It is obvious to anyone watching that JG's skill set is complete and special.  The only elite attribute that he doesn't bring to the table is size.  His height, while adequate, is not elite.  Based on what I have seen from JG with my own eyes, I would be shocked if his marriage with Shanahan did not exceed at a high level.  If he gets signed long term, only health stands in the way of a very successful career for this guy.

 

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

Sanchez and Kaepernick were on great teams when they took over at QB. The Jets had one of the best defenses and a strong running game. Thomas Jones was still churning out 1000 yard seasons and they got the end of LT's career and he still looked like he had juice. The 49ers went to the NFC championship and lost the year before Kaepernick was handed the job mid-season over Alex Smith. They had a great defense, a strong running game (Gore in prime), and some good receivers with the quality veteran Boldin there (or maybe it was Torrey Smith and other players I forget). And they both had top tier OLines.

 

Sanchez was never asked to do much the first few years they went to the AFC championship except to hand the ball off. When they eventually put more on his plate he struggled and fell on his face. Same goes for Kaepernick. Especially after the defense started getting older and lost talent to injury/FA. And when Harbaugh left his regression became even more evident.

 

Jimmy G has a 6+ game sample size now. He has led the 49ers to a 4-0 record since joining the starting lineup of the team. He is playing very well, despite the offense being bereft of talent. The OLine is garbage right now and missing its top players to injury. Receivers are a joke and missing top one to injury. He hasn't had much to work with, but he is elevating the talent around him and succeeding where others couldn't. That is the mark of a great QB. It is still too early to tell, but I'm seeing signs. He just put a beat down on the vaunted Jags defense.

 

49ers potentially have a franchise QB for a 2nd round draft pick. They win this deal easily. Jimmy G isn't going anywhere in the off season. He will get the franchise tag while they work on a long-term contract. As long as he wants to be there he will sign a long-term deal. The 49ers aren't going to low ball Jimmy G like the Redskins continually did with Cousins. And Jimmy G looks like he will be a great franchise QB, whereas Cousins looks like a system QB that can play well but never win the big one. Cousins is still worth paying top dollar for, because that is what the position demands, but I would put Jimmy G in the tier above Cousins. Jimmy G looks like he could join the elite group.

 

 

Some good points in hindsight but at the time it was all about 1st round USC super star "Sanchez" and his bright future. Even more so with Keap who was hyped as the prototype of the next phase in NFL QBs. 

 

You make good points about Jimmy G but what if I replace his name with Josh McGown? Didn't he do the same for the Jets this year? Vegas pegged the Jets for 2 1/2 wins and McGown came in and statistically out performed #ManditoryMVP Tom Brady for 5 games with arguably less talent than Jimmy G has with the Niners. If Jimmy G is all that, McGown should be ranked as high or higher no? Obviously not.

 

Jay Cutler was the hottest QB in the NFL with the Broncos for a stretch. 

 

Trent Richardson had a monster rookie season in the Browns.

 

Blaine Gabvart had almost identical numbers against the Jags D this year.

 

There are a lot of factors that go in to why a player plays well and why teams win "when they shouldn't." 

 

They 49ers "possibly" have a franchise QB. They gave up a 2nd round pick and all their bargaining leverage for Jimmy G and the fact remains he is unproven. (Jimmy G may say he wants to stay in SF but I guarantee his agent will use all the leverage he has to the fullest come $contact$ Time) That is a huge gamble and not good one in my opinion given the Pats history of talking up crummy backups and the fact that JG would have been available 2 months later. I could be wrong. We'll see.

Edited by FreakFries

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2 hours ago, The_Truth_Returns said:

 

A few counters and one agreement to this:

 

1) Is the difference between the 38th pick (SF pick estimate) and the 97th pick in the draft, which is the compensation the Pats would have received if Garoppolo walked, worth the insurance policy Garoppolo provided if Brady got hurt this season?  If Brady goes down, their season is over.  I think we can all agree to that.  If Brady went down with Garoppolo still present, the team's Superbowl hopes would remain intact.

 

2) I'm not sure of the Cap impacts, but some Franchised players can still receive offers from other teams, and if you choose to decline matching you are rewarded with 2 1st round picks.  It's revisionist history, but do you think any team wouldn't offer two 1st round picks for the rights to sign Garoppolo long term at this point?  What the world is now seeing and understanding, was already known in New England.  Garoppolo is a future Franchise QB.  As bad as Cleveland has been, they have a good WR corp, a good TE, two serviceable running backs, and a decent offensive line.  Their QBs have just been HORRIBLE.  I don't think he would have been in the worst spot in Cleveland, and I'm certain after going 1-31 over two seasons and passing on a handful of Franchise QBs, they would have given up 2 1sts for him.

 

3) I think the idea of doing Jimmy right is completely true.  I also think it's rooted in a bit of "I told you so" by Belicheck.  Matt Ryan sucks, not sure if that's a bold statement at this point, but the guy has had one exemplary season in his career, and been average the rest of it.  He sucked in his first full season under Shanahan, and exploded in year 2.  Garoppolo is without a doubt in my mind better than Matt Ryan in every facet of the game, and will have success on par annually with Matt Ryan's MVP season as long as they surround him with more talent.  I think Belicheck, if he couldn't have Garoppolo, wanted him to succeed and continue his legacy in that way.

On 1, I think you are overlooking Hoyer. Hoyer may not have shined wherever else he went, but he is well respected by patriots. He is the insurance now. If he wasn't part of the deal it wouldn't have gotten done(my guess). And yes I count cutting him and signing him as part of the trade(niners wouldn't cut Hoyer otherwise). So yes I think the value between picks justifies the trade given you got Hoyer already because historically speaking there is a higher likelihood a 2nd rounder sticks to the roster where a late third might not. We've had some duds in second round but some good ones too, Jimmy G and Gronk come to mind. Other thing is you can use it to trade up or down or for another existing player.

Regardless of all of that Patriots fan are still hoping and wishing Jimmy G success. I don't fault the handling of the situation.

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