dashoe

Stefon Diggs 2017 Outlook

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5 hours ago, fakespike said:

I hate Case Keenum.  You're not an NFL QB when you can only make 1 read.  Better things next year for Diggs, I hope. 

 

I don't see it as "1 read". Keenum did a great job at spreading the ball around last week, 5 targets each to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, McKinnon. The problem isn't his ability to read the field, and last week it volume of targets is somewhat a culprit here; the issue is the Vikings are a well balanced team, and since finding this balance they're not relying on the deeper passes or even end zone shots.

 

51 minutes ago, FFMike888 said:

Did anyone watch the Atlanta game?  I wasn't able to watch it, but I'm curious if he looked good and getting separation?

 

Separation wasn't the issue. Also, we've seen Diggs gain practically no separation and yet make incredible contested catches. I'm loaded with Vikings (offense and IDPs), so I watch the games weekly. Keenum has been playing more and more conservatively: first, he knows that he has a short leash, that Bridgewater is waiting, despite his ability to lead the team to victory week after week. Thielen has been the surest thing (separation + routes + hands), but this past week was the perfect example of a conservative Keenum: 5 targets to each of his main characters, simple and accurate passes without risk. Another part of his game-play is that there's no reason to take risks when the Vikings are ahead regularly. If Carolina can make some headway into the Vikings defense (big if), if the Panthers can take the lead, we'd see more reliance on Diggs. Thing is, the way Cam is playing, I don't see that happening, unless Olsen somehow reignites Cam.

 

23 hours ago, daethfromabove1979 said:

 

I didn’t drop Diggs but I am playing Goodwin over him too. I’d rather not give away Diggs because of the week 16 matchup vs Green Bay, if he shows signs of life then he could be rosterable for that game. 

 

Notta lotta love for Diggs on this thread. I like the Goodwin over Diggs, but some of these posts are insane (Diggs is not a "drop"). Guaranteed 5 targets minimum per game from a capable QB, a red zone target, and Diggs has 3 rushing attempts in the past 6 games. He's not a WR1, but he's easily a flex. From what we've seen of Diggs, he seems to thrive over difficult matchups (and last week was an "easy" matchup). I'm flexing Diggs over DMurray, JDoctson, and DMartin this week (though I have Thielen on the same team, so it's a hedged bet).

 

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43 minutes ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

I don't see it as "1 read". Keenum did a great job at spreading the ball around last week, 5 targets each to Theilen, Diggs, Rudolph, McKinnon. The problem isn't his ability to read the field, and last week it volume of targets is somewhat a culprit here; the issue is the Vikings are a well balanced team, and since finding this balance they're not relying on the deeper passes or even end zone shots.

 

 

Separation wasn't the issue. Also, we've seen Diggs gain practically no separation and yet make incredible contested catches. I'm loaded with Vikings (offense and IDPs), so I watch the games weekly. Keenum has been playing more and more conservatively: first, he knows that he has a short leash, that Bridgewater is waiting, despite his ability to lead the team to victory week after week. Thielen has been the surest thing (separation + routes + hands), but this past week was the perfect example of a conservative Keenum: 5 targets to each of his main characters, simple and accurate passes without risk. Another part of his game-play is that there's no reason to take risks when the Vikings are ahead regularly. If Carolina can make some headway into the Vikings defense (big if), if the Panthers can take the lead, we'd see more reliance on Diggs. Thing is, the way Cam is playing, I don't see that happening, unless Olsen somehow reignites Cam.

 

 

Notta lotta love for Diggs on this thread. I like the Goodwin over Diggs, but some of these posts are insane (Diggs is not a "drop"). Guaranteed 5 targets minimum per game from a capable QB, a red zone target, and Diggs has 3 rushing attempts in the past 6 games. He's not a WR1, but he's easily a flex. From what we've seen of Diggs, he seems to thrive over difficult matchups (and last week was an "easy" matchup). I'm flexing Diggs over DMurray, JDoctson, and DMartin this week (though I have Thielen on the same team, so it's a hedged bet).

 

 

Of course there is not a lot of love....look at his results the past 6 games. Why should there be?

 

i am probably going to have to play him as my WR3 this week but only because my Funchess should get blanketed by Rhodes and my Juju is suspended and I cut my Dede in order to pick up a back up TE to fill in for my Ertz. I don’t expect more than 6 points in standard and to be honest, I will be okay with that.....just not 2 points. 

 

Lastly, I am actually trying to find someone to replace Diggs but because he has GB in Championship week 16 and Rodgers back, I’m hoping GB is leading and scoring on Minny which may force conservative Keenum to have to throw the ball downfield past 10yards.  So I may keep him for this game as well.  There isn’t much left on waivers other than Golladay or “Steven” Stills. I’m still lookimg though.....

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18 minutes ago, TennisMenace said:

 

Of course there is not a lot of love....look at his results the past 6 games. Why should there be?

 

i am probably going to have to play him as my WR3 this week but only because my Funchess should get blanketed by Rhodes and my Juju is suspended and I cut my Dede in order to pick up a back up TE to fill in for my Ertz. I don’t expect more than 6 points in standard and to be honest, I will be okay with that.....just not 2 points. 

 

Lastly, I am actually trying to find someone to replace Diggs but because he has GB in Championship week 16 and Rodgers back, I’m hoping GB is leading and scoring on Minny which may force conservative Keenum to have to throw the ball downfield past 10yards.  So I may keep him for this game as well.  There isn’t much left on waivers other than Golladay or “Steven” Stills. I’m still lookimg though.....

 

In full-point PPR, Diggs hasn’t been horrible since the bye and he’s producing Flex numbers:

 

Week 10 = 4 rec / 78 yards / 1 TD = 17.8 points

Week 11 = 4 / 32 / 0 = 7.2 points

Week 12 = 5 / 66 / 0 + 1 rush @ 9 yards = 12. 5 points

Week 13 = 2 / 32 / 0 + 1 rush @ 5 yards = 5.7 points

 

The 5.7 hurts, the 7.2 ain’t great--- Diggs is no longer WR1 / WR2---but 2 out of four weeks gives reason to continue flexing. Diggs will get a minimum of 5 targets, and there's a 25% chance he'll see a red zone target; his skills for contested catches is exceptional. If you have someone more reliable, great. This week, I'm more concerned with the Vikings running away the game (and then running the game clock) than I am with Diggs' ability to make something happen with his 5 targets.

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12 hours ago, cohenstantinople said:

Separation wasn't the issue. Also, we've seen Diggs gain practically no separation and yet make incredible contested catches. I'm loaded with Vikings (offense and IDPs), so I watch the games weekly. Keenum has been playing more and more conservatively: first, he knows that he has a short leash, that Bridgewater is waiting, despite his ability to lead the team to victory week after week. Thielen has been the surest thing (separation + routes + hands), but this past week was the perfect example of a conservative Keenum: 5 targets to each of his main characters, simple and accurate passes without risk. Another part of his game-play is that there's no reason to take risks when the Vikings are ahead regularly. If Carolina can make some headway into the Vikings defense (big if), if the Panthers can take the lead, we'd see more reliance on Diggs. Thing is, the way Cam is playing, I don't see that happening, unless Olsen somehow reignites Cam.

 

Thank you for the insight.  I was concerned he may not have been completely over his groin injury, and not getting separation, so I'm glad that doesn't appear to be the case.  I'll probably be playing him as my WR2 this week over Chris Hogan coming back from injury.  Since coming back from his injury, he seems to have an alternating predictable pattern of bad and good games.  His Thanksgiving game would've been a lot better if there wasn't that PI that the refs didn't even call (complete BS).  

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13 hours ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

In full-point PPR, Diggs hasn’t been horrible since the bye and he’s producing Flex numbers:

 

Week 10 = 4 rec / 78 yards / 1 TD = 17.8 points

Week 11 = 4 / 32 / 0 = 7.2 points

Week 12 = 5 / 66 / 0 + 1 rush @ 9 yards = 12. 5 points

Week 13 = 2 / 32 / 0 + 1 rush @ 5 yards = 5.7 points

 

The 5.7 hurts, the 7.2 ain’t great--- Diggs is no longer WR1 / WR2---but 2 out of four weeks gives reason to continue flexing. Diggs will get a minimum of 5 targets, and there's a 25% chance he'll see a red zone target; his skills for contested catches is exceptional. If you have someone more reliable, great. This week, I'm more concerned with the Vikings running away the game (and then running the game clock) than I am with Diggs' ability to make something happen with his 5 targets.

 

I can see he has meant more to you than to me. You had two good weeks, I had one.  From my perspective, my number one has not scored more than 4 points in two of the last three weeks and under 8 in the other.  His last three weeks total are the worst on my team so I guess my number five is no longer number five.....Diggs is.  Obviously, he is higher on your team. But, like I said, I may have to play him this week so I know we both want him to be successful. Here’s hoping. 

 

 

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He’s due for a nice week already and he’s matched up with Bradberry Whois supposedly has been giving up alot of  points 

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6 minutes ago, ShowStopper said:

He’s due for a nice week already and he’s matched up with Bradberry Whois supposedly has been giving up alot of  points 

 

It doesn't matter who he's matched up against.  His QB is incapable of supporting > 1 WR and he's not it.  Have to hope that Diggs or Case aren't on the same team in 2018.  Without a change at QB or an injury to Thihelen, you'd have to be desperate to run him out during the playoffs.

Edited by ragrag

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1 hour ago, ragrag said:

 

It doesn't matter who he's matched up against.  His QB is incapable of supporting > 1 WR and he's not it.  Have to hope that Diggs or Case aren't on the same team in 2018.  Without a change at QB or an injury to Thihelen, you'd have to be desperate to run him out during the playoffs.

 

Well with Anderson potentially hobbled, I may be that desperate 

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4 hours ago, Ryedog87 said:

I'm starting him this week. No telling what might happen

 

Pray that Carolina jumps out to the lead....if Minny does, the most you will get are short safe passes for little yards.  4-35 yds

Edited by TennisMenace

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sadly I'm torn between this guy and Kelvin Benjamin, and after Kamara got hurt last night...might have to shoot for the stars with Diggs uggggh

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Keenum is the #1 problem, but defensive gameplans are a close #2.  Every single opposing DC has treated Diggs as Minny's WR1.  To date, not a single DC has treated Thielen as the defense's first priority.  He has never had to face anything/anyone other than zone schemes, LBs and, occasionally safeties.  But the thing about gameplans is that there is a new one every week.  With game tape of Thielen feasting growing, I wonder when it will be that shoe gets put on the other foot.  I bet that is a day when Diggs' fortunes suddenly change.

 

The problem is not with the player.  When healthy, he's damn good.

Edited by Rolling Thunder

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11 minutes ago, Rolling Thunder said:

Keenum is the #1 problem, but defensive gameplans are a close #2.  Every single opposing DC has treated Diggs as Minny's WR1.  To date, not a single DC has treated Thielen as the defense's first priority.  He has never had to face anything/anyone other than zone schemes, LBs and, occasionally safeties.  But the thing about gameplans is that there is a new one every week.  With game tape of Thielen feasting growing, I wonder when it will be that shoe gets put on the other foot.  I bet that is a day when Diggs' fortunes suddenly change.

 

The problem is not with the player.  When healthy, he's damn good.

 

100%.  In keepers where you have him you have to hold and hope that MIN gets a more competent QB, or that Diggs is dealt.  I believe he's UFA at end of 2018 so maybe MIN moves him while he's under their control.  Of course, MIN knows what they have in Diggs too and are probably happy allowing him to draw top coverage.  If Diggs is moved then Thielen sees top coverage and the house of cards comes tumbling down.  Tricky situation though, I would imagine Diggs reps are pushing for a trade behind the scenes.  Being a defensive gravity well is no way to land a mega contract.

Edited by ragrag

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:28 AM, ShowStopper said:

He’s due for a nice week already and he’s matched up with Bradberry Whois supposedly has been giving up alot of  points 

 

Agreed..in the past 4 weeks Carolina has given up the most TD's to WR's.  He's up to 18 receptions without a TD.  I think he probably gets his usual 5 - 6 targets  a game, putting him up to 23 - 24 targets without a TD.  Personally, I think he's too good to go 23 - 24 targets without a single TD.  He's healthy and due..welcome to my lineup Mr. Diggs.  I'm not doubting Diggs - starting with confidence!  

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8 minutes ago, kidtwentytwo said:

lol at you Kennum haters 

"Kennum" is winning and putting up good stats, but he is very lucky to have a great defense and running game to prop him up.  He's also fortunate that he has not thrown 7-10 more interceptions, since his passes are so inaccurate.

 

I think even Minnesota knows that once they go up against a good team in the playoffs, Keenum's limitations will be exposed and the Vikings season will end.

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6 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"Kennum" is winning and putting up good stats, but he is very lucky to have a great defense and running game to prop him up.  He's also fortunate that he has not thrown 7-10 more interceptions, since his passes are so inaccurate.

 

I think even Minnesota knows that once they go up against a good team in the playoffs, Keenum's limitations will be exposed and the Vikings season will end.

 

At least we can acknowledge how overrated Dalvin Cook is given their "great running game" and 8-0 record since he went down. 

 

Diggs needs to do more, and I expect that he will. Keenum is not the problem. 

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22 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"Kennum" is winning and putting up good stats, but he is very lucky to have a great defense and running game to prop him up.  He's also fortunate that he has not thrown 7-10 more interceptions, since his passes are so inaccurate.

 

I think even Minnesota knows that once they go up against a good team in the playoffs, Keenum's limitations will be exposed and the Vikings season will end.

 

While you're right that Keenum has thrown many passes that should have been interceptions, GTFO with the second part. Look at the teams the Vikings have beaten. They aren't a fluke. 

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You would have to think an explosion from Diggs is coming soon.  Regardless of QB play, good players find a way to explode every now and then and I feel like tomorrow is one of those days 

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28 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"Kennum" is winning and putting up good stats, but he is very lucky to have a great defense and running game to prop him up.  He's also fortunate that he has not thrown 7-10 more interceptions, since his passes are so inaccurate.

 

I think even Minnesota knows that once they go up against a good team in the playoffs, Keenum's limitations will be exposed and the Vikings season will end.

 

Falcons, Rams, Packers, Lions, Ravens have been unable to beat them.  Maybe they’ll run into some good teams in the playoffs.  

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Keenum has the leagues 2nd best Qbr next to Watson.  Perhaps he can give us better Qb play.  

 

Diggs is a fantasy WR3.  Sorry to disappoint.  If he was on a team that sucked and had to play from behind, or didn’t have theilen, maybe it’d be a different story.  Too many mouths to feed on an offense that doesn’t sling the ball aroind.  

 

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42 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"Kennum" is winning and putting up good stats, but he is very lucky to have a great defense and running game to prop him up.  He's also fortunate that he has not thrown 7-10 more interceptions, since his passes are so inaccurate.

 

I think even Minnesota knows that once they go up against a good team in the playoffs, Keenum's limitations will be exposed and the Vikings season will end.

 

Keenum is an effective but  limited QB and has an amazing pass catching group

Sometimes u have to look underneath certain stats like percentage completion and see he isnt that accurate of a passer and he has a weak arm (which kills Diggs value).

 

11.1 yards per completion ranks about 24th in the league 

 

Vikings wr have one of the highest catch rates in the NFL

 Jerick McKinnon    Minnesota Vikings    RB    75.9%
 Kyle Rudolph    Minnesota Vikings    TE    71.4%
 Adam Thielen    Minnesota Vikings    WR    66.1%
 Stefon Diggs    Minnesota Vikings    WR    64.6%

 

which also leads to having the lowest drop rate in the NFL of 2.1%

7% of keenums inaccurate passes are caught vs 2% NFL avg which means they catch 3x as many inaccurate passes as their peers. thats massive.

 

So alot of the hype around keenum is how he is winning games for Minn due to the fact that he is overperforming vs expectations however too little credit is given to the fact the Minn pass catchers are arguably the best collective in the NFL and make Keenum look like a stud.

Throw in an above avg def and running all keenum has to do is not screw up his execution in a great situation.

Edited by dashoe

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19 minutes ago, kidtwentytwo said:

 

Falcons, Rams, Packers, Lions, Ravens have been unable to beat them.  Maybe they’ll run into some good teams in the playoffs.  

Packers without Rodgers are a good team?  The Lions are a good team?  The Ravens then? (they are playing better ball now).

 

Not an impressive list, my friend.

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12 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Keenum is an effective but  limited QB and has an amazing pass catching group

Sometimes u have to look underneath certain stats like percentage completion and see he isnt that accurate of a passer and he has a weak arm (which kills Diggs value).

 

11.1 yards per completion ranks about 24th in the league 

 

Vikings wr have one of the highest catch rates in the NFL

 Jerick McKinnon    Minnesota Vikings    RB    75.9%
 Kyle Rudolph    Minnesota Vikings    TE    71.4%
 Adam Thielen    Minnesota Vikings    WR    66.1%
 Stefon Diggs    Minnesota Vikings    WR    64.6%

 

which also leads to having the lowest drop rate in the NFL of 2.1%

7% of keenums inaccurate passes are caught vs 2% NFL avg which means they catch 3x as many inaccurate passes as their peers. thats massive.

 

So alot of the hype around keenum is how he is winning games for Minn due to the fact that he is overperforming vs expectations however too little credit is given to the fact the Minn pass catchers are arguably the best collective in the NFL and make Keenum look like a stud.

Throw in an above avg def and running all keenum has to do is not screw up his execution in a great situation.

 

Fair analysis, McKinnon’s passes amount to a layup in basketball.  Theilen’s hands are Cris Carter like.  He catches everything.  Diggs has great hands as well.  That said Keenum still got to get them the ball.  In a season where we’re watching bad Qb play teamed with bad injuries, the Vikings are lucky to have keenum.  If they get home field, they’re going to be an awfully tough out

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