RedDogNamedClippers

Myles Turner 2017-2018 Season Outlook

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3 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

^How about any format where a guy outside the top 25 PFs and top 75 overall is droppable?

 

The point isn't that he should be on waivers in every single league. But the argument that he is absolutely undroppable in every circumstance and every league is obviously laughable at this point.

I didnt implied anything like that and i wasnt trying to be sarcastic. I honestly wanted to know in what kind of situations he could be considered expendable. For instance, im in a H2H 14team 8cat and dropping him is out of the question imo. I wouldnt consider dropping him in a 10team league as well (either points or H2H). I can justify him being dropped only if he is your worst player (or worst big guy in your roster and you dont need what he brings on the table) fighting for a PO spot and considering Indy has a s---y PO schedule he could be switched with a hot WW pick up.But still, hard to imagine a scenario where he is dropable... 

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2 hours ago, Manos A said:

I didnt implied anything like that and i wasnt trying to be sarcastic. I honestly wanted to know in what kind of situations he could be considered expendable. For instance, im in a H2H 14team 8cat and dropping him is out of the question imo. I wouldnt consider dropping him in a 10team league as well (either points or H2H). I can justify him being dropped only if he is your worst player (or worst big guy in your roster and you dont need what he brings on the table) fighting for a PO spot and considering Indy has a s---y PO schedule he could be switched with a hot WW pick up.But still, hard to imagine a scenario where he is dropable... 

Yeah I’m in a 10 team and was forced to hold onto this cancer the whole year. But this one team in my league is stackkkkkkked and they could’ve dropped him if they needed to. I feel like you’d have to have blocks secure first. Like this team has embiid porzingis and Giannis. They’re worst player is josh Richardson and the rest are all pretty good so I could see him being dropped in a 10 if you have a really good team. 

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Potential is there if they would just design 8-10 dedicated touches a game specifically geared toward him he’d be who we drafted or traded for

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On 3/7/2018 at 1:57 PM, Fiveohnine said:

^How about any format where a guy outside the top 25 PFs and top 75 overall is droppable?

 

The point isn't that he should be on waivers in every single league. But the argument that he is absolutely undroppable in every circumstance and every league is obviously laughable at this point.

But the question is what leagues exist where a top 75 overall player is droppable?

If it's a standard 8-team with 13 roster spots, 8*13 = 104 players.

Even in a 6-team league with 13 roster spots, he would be an end of bench player. 6*13 = 78 players.

He definitely has not been an amazing player or even a great player. But, just looking at the numbers, it seems not a great drop to me.

Maybe if you're in a 6 team league where the other owners suck. That way your team would be made up of like pure top 50 players or something.

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6 hours ago, DavidbivaD said:

But the question is what leagues exist where a top 75 overall player is droppable?

If it's a standard 8-team with 13 roster spots, 8*13 = 104 players.

Even in a 6-team league with 13 roster spots, he would be an end of bench player. 6*13 = 78 players.

He definitely has not been an amazing player or even a great player. But, just looking at the numbers, it seems not a great drop to me.

Maybe if you're in a 6 team league where the other owners suck. That way your team would be made up of like pure top 50 players or something.

I get that Turner has been a big bust based on his ADP but people are going nuts in this thread. Most of the posts make no sense and that is why i feel like i have to thank you for saying out loud the obvious. I see people dropping players who should be owned everywhere (based on their situation and averages) despite their inconsistency. I get the fact that some owners are impatient to an extreme level and owning inconsistent players is bad for their health. What i dont get is trying to explain it based on numbers...its embarrassing

Edited by Manos A
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People who dropped Turner are plain idiots and deserve to lose their season, terrible...and to come in here and spread their FUD

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In 9-cat he's ranked 48th on the season in per game value (67th in total value), so yes.. while he has been a pain in the a** to own due to his inconsistency and the fact that he underperforming badly (compared to what people expected from their 2nd round pick) he's not a drop. 

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On 3/7/2018 at 12:57 PM, Fiveohnine said:

^How about any format where a guy outside the top 25 PFs and top 75 overall is droppable?

 

The point isn't that he should be on waivers in every single league. But the argument that he is absolutely undroppable in every circumstance and every league is obviously laughable at this point.

Get a deeper league bro that's rookie ish

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13 hours ago, Manos A said:

What i dont get is trying to explain it based on numbers...its embarrassing

Why is it embarrassing? Fantasy bball is all about numbers lol. A great real life player can have crap numbers or a crap real life player can have great numbers because of pure opportunity. 

 

Sometimes you just have to explain it numbers to make it very clear ;)

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35 minutes ago, DavidbivaD said:

Why is it embarrassing? Fantasy bball is all about numbers lol. A great real life player can have crap numbers or a crap real life player can have great numbers because of pure opportunity. 

 

Sometimes you just have to explain it numbers to make it very clear ;)

I think he is referring to having to break down the number of players in different size leagues.  He agrees with you and so do I. 

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On 3/9/2018 at 9:28 PM, DavidbivaD said:

But the question is what leagues exist where a top 75 overall player is droppable?

If it's a standard 8-team with 13 roster spots, 8*13 = 104 players.

Even in a 6-team league with 13 roster spots, he would be an end of bench player. 6*13 = 78 players.

He definitely has not been an amazing player or even a great player. But, just looking at the numbers, it seems not a great drop to me.

Maybe if you're in a 6 team league where the other owners suck. That way your team would be made up of like pure top 50 players or something.

 

Like I said, the point was never that he should be on waivers in every league in every instance. It's that it's stupid to see him as being "undroppable" in every instance. Other guys around that rank shouldn't be seen as undroppable either. And it's just dumb to pretend otherwise.

 

Also, like I said, he's outside the top 25 PFs. You chose only to analyze the top 75 part of what I said for a very good reason. Of course, that's intentionally obtuse, since it ignores the fact that the top 75 isn't spread out perfectly by position. If PF-eligible guys are over-represented in the top 75, then clinging to Turner over another guy who can contribute at a more needed position is still foolish, even if his overall rank is slightly lower.

 

There are plenty of better choices at PF. If you happen to have 2-3 of the PFs that are better than Turner, and the trade deadline has long passed, it's stupid to just carry dead weight if there's another one of the 80-90 or so guys who have done about as well or better than he has this season available on waivers.

 

Edited by Fiveohnine

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^ESPN has him at #23 PF now. But regardless, in most standard leagues only one PF must be owned per team along with maybe a SF/PF slot. Him not even cracking the top 20 of his position makes my point.

 

In a ten team league, for example, only 10 PFs -must- be owned. Even if every team held two top twenty PFs, Turner would still be  in droppable/streamable range.

 

Like I said, the point isn't that he should be on waivers in every league. But pretending he should be seen as undroppable in every circumstance is just dumb at this point, especially now that the trade deadline has long since passed. It just depends on the particular situation. Much like dropping other players at his overall and/or positional ranking, such as, Bojan/Bogdan Bogdanovic (top 20ish SGs top 75ish overall), Courtney Lee (top 20 SG, to 70ish), Taurean Prince, Jeremy Lamb, etc. etc. etc., any of whom might be also be droppable in the right circumstance as well. All those guys have had similar to better overall and/or positional production. And the list is much longer than that.

 

The point is simple. Turner's production has been purely streamable and nowhere near undroppable. In fact, if you dropped this guy a couple months back you've probably done much better streaming PFs for multiple starts than locking in Turner for his 3-4 starts/week. Like I said, it's just silly to pretend otherwise at this point.

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I don't care what ESPN says, he's objectively the 20th PF eligible player (which includes many C eligible ones) and the 48th ranked player overall in 9 cat.  That's not someone you stream. 

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Why all the PF talk?  The guy is a Center with PF eligibility.  I'd imagine most people are rostering or drafted him for Center.  The PF eligibility is a bonus.  

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Not droppable ofcourse. Stil very dissapointed.

Last year was 28th rank with 31 min. Now close to top50 with 27 min. Remember PG leaving Pacers and expectations?

Why Turner loose time, often outplayed by Sabonis? Some injuries, but stiil no effort from Myles while Pacers run for playoffs.

You expect NBA star level, playing for max contract. What we receive? Just elite player like Ibaka.

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4 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

^ESPN has him at #23 PF now. But regardless, in most standard leagues only one PF must be owned per team along with maybe a SF/PF slot. Him not even cracking the top 20 of his position makes my point.

In a ten team league, for example, only 10 PFs -must- be owned. Even if every team held two top twenty PFs, Turner would still be  in droppable/streamable range.

Like I said, the point isn't that he should be on waivers in every league. But pretending he should be seen as undroppable in every circumstance is just dumb at this point, especially now that the trade deadline has long since passed. It just depends on the particular situation. Much like dropping other players at his overall and/or positional ranking, such as, Bojan/Bogdan Bogdanovic (top 20ish SGs top 75ish overall), Courtney Lee (top 20 SG, to 70ish), Taurean Prince, Jeremy Lamb, etc. etc. etc., any of whom might be also be droppable in the right circumstance as well. All those guys have had similar to better overall and/or positional production. And the list is much longer than that.

If you are in a daily lineup, i cant make any sense of what your are saying and the reference of position eligibility seems irrelevant to me. ESPN doesnt force you to have only 2 pf. If you have 2 better pf than Turner then you can roster them as Pf and F. Then again, as mentioned before Turner is also a C so you have to have a better Center than Turner as well. Then again, you got 3 utility spots, that means you have to have a pg a sg and a sf better than Turner and 3 others more. So you actually have to have 9 better players than Turner (could only seem plausible in an 8 team league) and that is if every player in your roster plays every night. If you add the fact that every day you will have people not playing, then everything i have said so far is pointless and Turner is simply worth rostering every time in every format.

 

Now if you are in a weekly lineup, position eligibility is not irrelevant and your post makes sense. You are saying that if you have about 8-9 better players than Turner in your roster (including a pf, a C and one more forward), you are set on blocks but you are thin on guards for example, then it makes sense to drop him for streaming. If this is indeed what you are saying i would still keep him tight and not even consider dropping. First of all, Turner is a big guy but he is giving you 3s with nice ft %. Also the fact that you are set on the block category doesnt mean you should get rid of him because i 100% guarantee you he will be claimed by all the other 7 owners in your league instantly. The one who gets him will probably be better than you in blocks now! Anyway, the funny thing its that all this conversation isnt about Turner at all. Its about a scenario with a team which has a specific build in a shallow league with specific settings stacked with big men. But you could argue the same thing for Milsap, Griffin and Whiteside, if the were the worst big man in your team does that make them expandables? The point is, that even in this scenario Turner remains undropable. Not "James Harden" undropable but "must own in all formats if healthy by all means" undropable. He is top 50 and you cant find top 50 in WW. Ok sometimes you can, but still, dont you ha a single player that is not top 50 in your team to drop instead?

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19 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

 

Like I said, the point was never that he should be on waivers in every league in every instance. It's that it's stupid to see him as being "undroppable" in every instance. Other guys around that rank shouldn't be seen as undroppable either. And it's just dumb to pretend otherwise.

 

Also, like I said, he's outside the top 25 PFs. You chose only to analyze the top 75 part of what I said for a very good reason. Of course, that's intentionally obtuse, since it ignores the fact that the top 75 isn't spread out perfectly by position. If PF-eligible guys are over-represented in the top 75, then clinging to Turner over another guy who can contribute at a more needed position is still foolish, even if his overall rank is slightly lower.

 

There are plenty of better choices at PF. If you happen to have 2-3 of the PFs that are better than Turner, and the trade deadline has long passed, it's stupid to just carry dead weight if there's another one of the 80-90 or so guys who have done about as well or better than he has this season available on waivers.

 

 

I didn't intentionally choose to be obtuse. All I did was give some very simple math to show that, not only should he not be on waivers in every league, but he shouldn't be on any waivers in pretty much any leagues. Someone's team in every league should have a need for Turner's stats (a top 75 player at worst) and have a worse player on their team that they can drop for him.

 

My problem with what you're saying is that you mention "once the trade deadline has passed". That's a huge deal for h2h leagues, and once the deadline has passed, I would consider your argument much more realistic/possible. But you've been making this argument for a long while now, and so that's a new addition to your argument. 

 

The fact was that he shouldn't have been dropped for most of the season, and at the very least traded for a weakness on your team if his stats were redundant on your team makeup. But you would've probably had to have drafted some really, really good blocking centers for that to be the case. 

 

Really, at the end of the day, my point is that Turner should not be on waivers in any leagues, and the moment you drop him someone else should immediately have picked him up. And if his stat set was that redundant, it would've been really bad planning to not have traded him by the trade deadline.

Edited by DavidbivaD
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1 hour ago, DavidbivaD said:

Really, at the end of the day, my point is that Turner should not be on waivers in any leagues, and the moment you drop him someone else should immediately have picked him up. And if his stat set was that redundant, it would've been really bad planning to not have traded him by the trade deadline.

 

This is pretty key.  Sure, maybe there's a few teams in a few leagues that would benefit from dropping him and picking someone that benefits their build better, okay.  But then he'd get picked up right away by another team. 

 

That's not really "droppable" the way most people on this board use the word. 

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1 hour ago, Hilltop said:

Think he's gonna finish the season strong or is this just part of his yo-yo of a season?

I hope so, and I need him to do so... Pacers may want to get highest seeding possible / homecourt advantage for the playoffs...

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