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SuperJoint

Cleveland Browns Outlook 2017

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On 12/18/2017 at 2:59 PM, J.T. Marlin said:

How can Hue Jackson possibly keep his job at this point??  Looking at 1-31 over a 2 year stint (maybe 2-30 if they beat CHI on the road this week).  The fact that Haslam has said that Hue will be back and that this is even a discussion at this point is mind-boggling.  BAD organizations stay BAD....

Absolutely horrid coach. His decision making has been absolutely miserable. A mediocre coach would have this team at 3 wins and a good one at 5 or so. While Kizer is absolute burning trash everything else is very solid.

 

Also, I'm sure partially the reason Kizer is so trash is because the team he is on. If they took Wentz he'd be a bum. They suck at developing QBs beyond imagination.

Edited by Gohawks

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No progress at all this year.

Nothing positive of note.

Another QB draft fail. 

 

Probably too many syllables for a haiku - but it's closer to a haiku than the Browns are to being a legit NFL franchise.

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2 minutes ago, SuperJoint said:

No progress at all this year.

Nothing positive of note.

Another QB draft fail. 

 

Probably too many syllables for a haiku - but it's closer to a haiku than the Browns are to being a legit NFL franchise.

 

 

Au contraire my friend Josh Gordon is back and the browns got another #1 pick plus that defense is going to be very good next season as those 1st yr guys become 2nd yr guys. 

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14 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Au contraire my friend Josh Gordon is back and the browns got another #1 pick plus that defense is going to be very good next season as those 1st yr guys become 2nd yr guys. 

 

Not if Hue is still their coach.

With all their draft picks and cap room they can truly start over and build something.

Keeping the coach of the worst 2 years in the history is kind of insane.

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4 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

Not if Hue is still their coach.

With all their draft picks and cap room they can truly start over and build something.

Keeping the coach of the worst 2 years in the history is kind of insane.

It's very fishy TBH. 1-15 followed by 0-16 and still keep your job? Common son

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17 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

It's very fishy TBH. 1-15 followed by 0-16 and still keep your job? Common son

 

 

I would say it was politically clever. He worked the owner and threw Sashi under the bus as the reason for the failures. Sashi was outmanuevered.

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This is why "tanking" is not a phenomenon in the NFL.

 

The Browns are desperate for a win. But they cannot.

 

They've entered into a vicious cycle: They are so bad that top prospects do not want to play for them, and may take steps to avoid them, which ends up leaving the franchise with weaker talent/prospects thus perpetuating the cycle.

 

When you lose alot, this is the risk.

 

How nice would a 4-12 season look to the Browns right now?

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10 hours ago, Gohawks said:

It's very fishy TBH. 1-15 followed by 0-16 and still keep your job? Common son

There is no guarantee Hue keeps his job though. The owner just kept him on for now. The GM should still have control to fire him in the off season if he wishes. There is no reason to retain him beyond this season though. He hasn't shown anything.

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Should go Darnold @ #1

 

Avoid the circus ( how did the Manziel clown show work out ) of Rosen & all it's drama. If need be bring in Alex Smith for a two year deal.

 

Herr Kizer doesn't seem to have support from within the organization although Deshon self proclaimed himself as the team leader since he was the starting QB. Forgot he had to earn it and his play on the field didn't work in his favor. Nor did his coach's public comments.

 

Which is a recurring problem, how can the team get behind a coach who too often denigrates individuals publicly . I figured Hue was trying to be let go so he could go back to Cincy. Not sure what to make of Jackson as a leader. Beware of his smiling face routine , strikes me as too smart to not know what he says is inciteful, hurtful so I believe he has an intent behind his words. Kizer, Crowell, Britt were thrown under the bus in a manner that didn't need to be done. Even if warranted Hue went beyond the normal to basically humiliate them. Deflection of his poor decisions or was it his way of telling everybody that he was saddled with these guys that he doesn't think are good enough but the front office insisted on signing. I couldn't blame Rosen for not wanting to be in that environment.

 

Obviously those three are history so it remains to be seen who will replace the QB & starting RB.Gordon is also in a precarious position. The Browns fought to keep him from procuring enough service time to attain rights as a FA . As a restricted FA does he even want a long term commitment with Cleveland? If not they are needing to address the WR position too (and should anyways due to Josh Gordon history of availability).

 

Hard to believe but I felt better about them going into this season than I do about next year. I guess the divide between the coach and front office was greater than perceived, at least by me. The A.J. McCarron fiasco confirmed it. No way that wasn't an inside intentional sabotage job by Sashi or whoever. Perhaps the Britt and Crowell signings weren't signed off on by Jackson either so he made a public effort to belittle them. If so such petty behavior doesn't play well amongst the players throughout the league. And they do talk.

 

Winning can cure most ills but Hue better start early or else he won't be around for the end 

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28 minutes ago, howlin' 2 said:

Should go Darnold @ #1

 

Avoid the circus ( how did the Manziel clown show work out ) of Rosen & all it's drama. If need be bring in Alex Smith for a two year deal.

 

Herr Kizer doesn't seem to have support from within the organization although Deshon self proclaimed himself as the team leader since he was the starting QB. Forgot he had to earn it and his play on the field didn't work in his favor. Nor did his coach's public comments.

 

Which is a recurring problem, how can the team get behind a coach who too often denigrates individuals publicly . I figured Hue was trying to be let go so he could go back to Cincy. Not sure what to make of Jackson as a leader. Beware of his smiling face routine , strikes me as too smart to not know what he says is inciteful, hurtful so I believe he has an intent behind his words. Kizer, Crowell, Britt were thrown under the bus in a manner that didn't need to be done. Even if warranted Hue went beyond the normal to basically humiliate them. Deflection of his poor decisions or was it his way of telling everybody that he was saddled with these guys that he doesn't think are good enough but the front office insisted on signing. I couldn't blame Rosen for not wanting to be in that environment.

 

Obviously those three are history so it remains to be seen who will replace the QB & starting RB.Gordon is also in a precarious position. The Browns fought to keep him from procuring enough service time to attain rights as a FA . As a restricted FA does he even want a long term commitment with Cleveland? If not they are needing to address the WR position too (and should anyways due to Josh Gordon history of availability).

 

Hard to believe but I felt better about them going into this season than I do about next year. I guess the divide between the coach and front office was greater than perceived, at least by me. The A.J. McCarron fiasco confirmed it. No way that wasn't an inside intentional sabotage job by Sashi or whoever. Perhaps the Britt and Crowell signings weren't signed off on by Jackson either so he made a public effort to belittle them. If so such petty behavior doesn't play well amongst the players throughout the league. And they do talk.Minkah Fitzpatrick

 

Winning can cure most ills but Hue better start early or else he won't be around for the end 

 

Honestly signing a FA guy like Alex Smith would be the smartest move they could make, they have plenty of cap space. Using a #1 or similar high pick on a QB very rarely works out.  Use the Pats model of spending high draft picks on defense, look to get long-term solution for QB in the 2-4th round range, and use sheer volume of picks in the later rounds to find a gem to fill crucial roles with unpredictable draft success patterns (like OL).  If for some reason Lamar Jackson falls into the 2nd round then sure take him with pick 33, but otherwise just take a shot on someone like Drew Lock or Luke Falk in the 3rd or 4th and see how he pans out.  

 

If they do sign a veteran QB, then think how much better the draft could go for CLE.  Imagine the Browns using their 1.1 and 1.4 to get Bradley Chubb and Minkah Fitpatrick to give them a killer defense core.  Second round use pick 33 to nab an offensive skill player who falls unexpectedly, doesn't matter if it's RB or WR.  With pick 36 get your OLB for the future.  Upgrade the RT and upside QB if you're able in the 3rd round or beyond, otherwise keep on piling on best player available.  Viola, you're a .500 team next year and perhaps favorite to win the AFC-N in the year after if Big Ben retires. 

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1 hour ago, jumper said:

 

Honestly signing a FA guy like Alex Smith would be the smartest move they could make, they have plenty of cap space. Using a #1 or similar high pick on a QB very rarely works out.  Use the Pats model of spending high draft picks on defense, look to get long-term solution for QB in the 2-4th round range, and use sheer volume of picks in the later rounds to find a gem to fill crucial roles with unpredictable draft success patterns (like OL).  If for some reason Lamar Jackson falls into the 2nd round then sure take him with pick 33, but otherwise just take a shot on someone like Drew Lock or Luke Falk in the 3rd or 4th and see how he pans out.  

 

If they do sign a veteran QB, then think how much better the draft could go for CLE.  Imagine the Browns using their 1.1 and 1.4 to get Bradley Chubb and Minkah Fitpatrick to give them a killer defense core.  Second round use pick 33 to nab an offensive skill player who falls unexpectedly, doesn't matter if it's RB or WR.  With pick 36 get your OLB for the future.  Upgrade the RT and upside QB if you're able in the 3rd round or beyond, otherwise keep on piling on best player available.  Viola, you're a .500 team next year and perhaps favorite to win the AFC-N in the year after if Big Ben retires. 

 

They tried that and missed out on two, possibly three franchise QBs.  They need a franchise QB in the worst way.

They are not the Patriots who regularly pick at the end of the 1st RD.

They tried trading their picks for more and see what that got them.

If they have the chance to get a franchise guy, they gotta take that chance.

A good QB can change the culture of an entire team.  Just look at what happened to SF.

Waiting till later in the draft gets you manziel and kizer.

If they don't use one of their top picks on a QB, they're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

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A rookie QB is not going to save this organization and turn it around. I never understood why people think rookie Qb's are the answer. You have to have pieces in place to make rookies successful. Even Wentz needed pieces to make his 2nd yr leap  and in his yr1 there was a solid amount of competent veteran players on the team.  Sashi blew all of the brown vets out of the door because he wanted cap room.  This a young team that doesnt know how to win as proven by mental errors in winnable games this year.  kenny Britt wan the right vet wr to work with an under developed QB even by NFL standards. They need to find the right vet leaders and talent to bring into the locker room and field. 

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13 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

They tried that and missed out on two, possibly three franchise QBs.  They need a franchise QB in the worst way.

They are not the Patriots who regularly pick at the end of the 1st RD.

They tried trading their picks for more and see what that got them.

If they have the chance to get a franchise guy, they gotta take that chance.

A good QB can change the culture of an entire team.  Just look at what happened to SF.

Waiting till later in the draft gets you manziel and kizer.

If they don't use one of their top picks on a QB, they're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

 

Plenty of quality FA QB's that can manage this team; smarter to build the defense and o-line via the draft and fill in with skill positions or if you want a shot on a rookie QB sign a FA vet QB that he can sit and learn behind. Throwing Trubisky into the fire didnt help him or the team at all but at least he had Glennon the highest paid backup  who is in the QB  meetings and practice helping  him develop.  The Vikings will prob be letting go 2 of theirs this offseason. Even Fitzpatrick will buy you a decent season as your rookie QB develops.  The Browns don't need a franchise QB to play in 2018 they need a guy that will buy them time

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This is not hard. Watch McCarrons grievance on Feb. 15th. Of he wins he is going to the Browns. There are several elite QBs coming out in 2019 and specifically 2020 so sign McCarron and draft a 2019 or 2020 QB and let Kizer develop as a backup for trade bait.

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11 minutes ago, dashoe said:

A rookie QB is not going to save this organization and turn it around. I never understood why people think rookie Qb's are the answer. You have to have pieces in place to make rookies successful. Even Wentz needed pieces to make his 2nd yr leap  and in his yr1 there was a solid amount of competent veteran players on the team.  Sashi blew all of the brown vets out of the door because he wanted cap room.  This a young team that doesnt know how to win as proven by mental errors in winnable games this year.  kenny Britt wan the right vet wr to work with an under developed QB even by NFL standards. They need to find the right vet leaders and talent to bring into the locker room and field. 

Wentz made the leap and has made everyone around him better. Many didn't expect them to be this good this season. A QB does save and stabilize the organization, but it needs to be the right QB. I don't really like any of the rookie QBs this season except for Mayfield. But Mayfield is going to have issues behind an OL with his size. He will need a good HC, OC, and QBs coach to work with him to make it work. Not many QBs with Brees' or Wilson's size are successful.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

They tried that and missed out on two, possibly three franchise QBs.  They need a franchise QB in the worst way.

They are not the Patriots who regularly pick at the end of the 1st RD.

They tried trading their picks for more and see what that got them.

If they have the chance to get a franchise guy, they gotta take that chance.

A good QB can change the culture of an entire team.  Just look at what happened to SF.

Waiting till later in the draft gets you manziel and kizer.

If they don't use one of their top picks on a QB, they're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

So as a Lion fan who has been through the Chuck Long and Joey Harrington eras I can attest to the fact that picking the "franchise QB" is a no brainer way to go ... well, let's just say it doesn't always work out that way. Stafford makes them 1 for 3 . Not a winning percentage.

 

Or let's go with Cleveland...Still saying OUCH from the COUCH era.

 

I dare say that the success level of QB's taken in the top 5 is less than stellar. Now if there was a Peyton or Luck in the draft sure. None of these guys are on that level going in

Edited by howlin' 2

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This is Cleveland's actual 2018 outlook as long as Hue Jackson remains the HC.

 

img_2045.jpg

  • Haha 1

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26 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

They tried that and missed out on two, possibly three franchise QBs.  They need a franchise QB in the worst way.

They are not the Patriots who regularly pick at the end of the 1st RD.

They tried trading their picks for more and see what that got them.

If they have the chance to get a franchise guy, they gotta take that chance.

A good QB can change the culture of an entire team.  Just look at what happened to SF.

Waiting till later in the draft gets you manziel and kizer.

If they don't use one of their top picks on a QB, they're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

 

Browns have used 3 first round picks on QBs in the last 10 years and netted Brady Quinn (2007), Brandon Weeden (2012), and Johnny Manziel (2014).  And historically a high draft pick QB probably has less chance of success as getting a veteran FA.  It's probable the Browns will use either the 1.01 or 1.04 on a QB, I just don't think it's a good idea.  Neither Josh Rosen nor Sam Darnold seem like sure things that high.  Lamar Jackson seems like a better candidate then both but his projected draft position doesn't align with Browns picks so they may need to trade down (or up) to get him. 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html

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