KilloWertz

Jacob deGrom 2018 Outlook

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As a Mets fan, it'd take a haul, especially from the Yankees to take deGrom off this team. 

 

If I was a Yankees fan, I'd offer Andujar, Frazier and another piece and that's as far as I'd go.

 

Sports these days are all built around young, cost controlled players. Gone are the days of paying for free agents to big money. Some GMs still fall for it, but the smart ones trade away their aging players and build through youth. 

 

Again, as a Mets fan I think we need to trade him. He’s been absolutely LIGHTS OUT this year and we’re one of the worst teams in baseball with one of the worst farm systems. This team cannot go into next year with an old team built through FA and “hope” all the pieces fall into place and everyone can stay healthy. They need to move him and inject some more youth into their lineup. 

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14 minutes ago, JaeTM said:

This team cannot go into next year with an old team built through FA and “hope” all the pieces fall into place and everyone can stay healthy. They need to move him and inject some more youth into their lineup. 

 

But that's exactly how they will have to go into next season. They will still have Cespedes, Frazier, Bruce, Vargas and Swarzak on the team next season. No one will touch anyone of those guys unless the Mets cut them. They may as well extend DeGrom and "hope". 

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8 minutes ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

Andujar is getting more love on this thread than he is on his own thread. It's amazing, the hype for him in this thread is unreal! Andujar should not be headlining any deal involving DeGrom. Andujar is a good player but he's not good on defense and he doesn't get on base enough. He doesn't hit righties all that great either. I understand he's a rookie but nothing suggests to me that he'll be anything more than a decent to good major leaguer. 

 

I do get why he's come up so much in this thread though... simple Yankee fan logic... 'we can trade him in a deal for DeGrom, then either trade or more likely sign Machado in the offseason and then boom, we just basically traded Andujar and another prospect for DeGrom and Machado, we're geniuses!' 

 

There were reports out yesterday that the Yanks are not even that high on Andujar because of his defense and lack of on base skills. Even though Cashman denied it( what else was he going to say?) I believe the report. If they truly believed in the kid they wouldn't have traded for Drury and they wouldn't have been after Machado. 

 

 

 

it's true.  i don't think the Yankees consider Andujar the future at 3B.   He has a very good arm but otherwise his defense is poor, and exactly right - he doesnt get on base enough.  He got off to a great start, but the league has caught up with him and he's hitting .240 with a 700 OPS the past 30 days.
The Yankees would be smart to trade him when his value is still high, and I hope it's not to the Mets.  
 
And Sheffield and Florial are ranked around 40.
The return on Sale was Moncada, the number one prospect plus Kopech, who was ranked higher than any of the Yankee prospects, plus two more.
and for Quintana, the white sox got Eloy, also a top 5 prospect, plus Dylan Cease and two more prospects.
The Mets should be looking at guys like Guerrero or Bichette from Toronto but Toronto is rebuilding and the same with San Diego with Tatis.
Whitley and Tucker would be solid from Houston but Houston is already stacked and doesnt need another ace.
So if the Yankees are the top suitors and the yankees have a couple of solid but not elite prospects that they arent even willing to give up. the Mets would

be dumb to trade him to the Yankees.  As for the Yankees,  they would be heavily favored to win the next three world series if they got deGrom.

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2 hours ago, DannyMcPot said:

Where are these guys playing with Judge, Stanton locked up, Gardy back for next year, and Hicks who Cashman LOVES...? Nevermind a guy named Harper who the Yankees might not be able to resist. I think Machado is much more likely though. 

I think it's a massive haul for the Mets that they wouldn't be able to resist. You're hoping Sheff turns into a #2-3, just sign Corbin who wants to be here and can be a potential ace just starting his prime. Yankees can afford these guys and will go after them. They will spend big league this off-season, believe me. Believe me. 

It sounds like Your Yankee outfield is Judge, Stanton & Harper ..maybe we should add in a guy named Mike a Trout . We can put Stanton at DH.    Is Manny Machado playing SS or 3B for the Yankees? I wonder who you will have to play first ? 

 

The best mix that Yankee fans can hope for is a mix of veterans with million dollar contracts & some young kids who the Yankees have control of till they hit big paydays 

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1 minute ago, shakestreet said:

It sounds like Your Yankee outfield is Judge, Stanton & Harper ..maybe we should add in a guy named Mike a Trout . We can put Stanton at DH.    Is Manny Machado playing SS or 3B for the Yankees? I wonder who you will have to play first ? 

 

The best mix that Yankee fans can hope for is a mix of veterans with million dollar contracts & some young kids who the Yankees have control of till they hit big paydays 

So what I'm getting here is that you don't believe the Yankees (who are conveniently under the luxury tax for the first time since I can remember) will be players for either of the two most attractive FAs in quite some time? Interesting take.

I heard the same sarcasm from fans as the Stanton rumors started. "Yeah sure we'll get Stanton, and maybe Mike Trout too." 

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16 minutes ago, DannyMcPot said:

So what I'm getting here is that you don't believe the Yankees (who are conveniently under the luxury tax for the first time since I can remember) will be players for either of the two most attractive FAs in quite some time? Interesting take.

I heard the same sarcasm from fans as the Stanton rumors started. "Yeah sure we'll get Stanton, and maybe Mike Trout too." 

We can agree to disagree how the Yankees should be built but this is a Jacob DeGrom thread 

 

having an all star player at every position didn’t work before so 

 

I was not happy with that Stanton trade ... too many years 

should have signed JD 

 

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1 hour ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

 

But that's exactly how they will have to go into next season. They will still have Cespedes, Frazier, Bruce, Vargas and Swarzak on the team next season. No one will touch anyone of those guys unless the Mets cut them. They may as well extend DeGrom and "hope". 

 

You're right, I should have phrased that better. I meant in terms of going forward with the same core that we're seeing this season. The first 3 players you mentioned are still good ball players and can benefit the team despite how much I despise Cespedes. 

 

They just can't go into next season with the same core and hope that everyone stays healthy and Conforto returns to last year's form. 

 

If you surround those 3 guys with Rosario no longer splitting time with Reyes and playing full time, Conforto, Nimmo full time, Dom Smith/Alonso along with Frazier and Andujar and all of the sudden the team looks young and hopeful. 

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12 minutes ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

Andujar is getting more love on this thread than he is on his own thread. It's amazing, the hype for him in this thread is unreal! Andujar should not be headlining any deal involving DeGrom. Andujar is a good player but he's not good on defense and he doesn't get on base enough. He doesn't hit righties all that great either. I understand he's a rookie but nothing suggests to me that he'll be anything more than a decent to good major leaguer.

Trying to think about it from a Met fan's perspective and I totally get how they don't want to take the Yankee's 2nd best prospect for the Mets best player right now. I can see how it kind of leaves a bad taste in their mouth but really Andujar is not like some crumb-bum 2nd tier prospect like Colin Moran or something (no offense to Colin Moran I'm sure he's a nice guy.) Very few prospects are spotless and those few that are are most of the time untouchable like Torres appears to be right now. The thing of it is though is while Torres is probably the more polished player right now. Who is to stay that in 2+ years Andujar couldn't end up being the better player. I'm not a prospect guy so mostly I defer to FG lists etc when I'm interested in futures and glancing at the pre-season rankings they had Torres at 12 and Andujar at 14. Both with Future values of 60. The really impressive thing to me with Andujar is that despite the poor plate approach he still has a k rate of 17%. You can't teach those sort of bat to ball skills and also he has a cannon arm at 3rd another tool you can't teach. What you can develop with time, which the Mets should have the next year plus, is to become better defensively and to be more selective at the plate. I mean not for nothing he leads rookies in doubles with 27. The idea that there is nothing here to indicate that Andujar can't be a very good player potentially is just not fair imo. Also the idea that the Yankees don't value Andujar a lot too is odd to me especially considering they balked at including him in a deal for Cole before the season began. With DeGrom at peak value right now the Mets would be silly to just simply ignore an offer that started with Andujar, is he as MLB ready of a product as Torres? No. But he does have a lot of future value. To me its really not that hard at all to see a potentially very good player here in Andujar. 

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Andujar was rated the #12 prospect in all of baseball before the season by Fangraphs. We're now 3 months in and he's probably 2nd/3rd in the ROY race. If he's not a guy who should be headlining a deal for deGrom, who is? 

 

Personally, I'd offer Andujar, Sheffield and Frazier. That's more than fair in my estimation and the Mets aren't going to get a better offer than that anywhere else.

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1 hour ago, absknicks said:

Andujar was rated the #12 prospect in all of baseball before the season by Fangraphs. We're now 3 months in and he's probably 2nd/3rd in the ROY race. If he's not a guy who should be headlining a deal for deGrom, who is? 

 

Personally, I'd offer Andujar, Sheffield and Frazier. That's more than fair in my estimation and the Mets aren't going to get a better offer than that anywhere else.

id throw in another piece to make it work if needed

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6 hours ago, absknicks said:

Andujar was rated the #12 prospect in all of baseball before the season by Fangraphs. We're now 3 months in and he's probably 2nd/3rd in the ROY race. If he's not a guy who should be headlining a deal for deGrom, who is? 

 

Personally, I'd offer Andujar, Sheffield and Frazier. That's more than fair in my estimation and the Mets aren't going to get a better offer than that anywhere else.

 

And he was #59 on Baseball America, #79 on ZIPS and not even ranked on Baseball Prospectus. Scouts have been mixed on him since the Yanks signed him out of DR. 

You can keep Andujar, I'd rather have Frazier, Florial and Sheffield. 

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19 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

 

as to who... andy - id trade Andujar, Frazier, Floriel, Sheffield and  Adams for him.

 

would you accept that?  i dont think another team beats that

 

If you told me the Mets wouldn’t compete within 2 years and theyvarwnt signing deGrom to a long term deal (both most likely the case), then yes, I make that trade.

 

19 hours ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

Why would the Mets be in a rush to trade their best player who is under control through the 2020 season ?

Why wouldn't they wait until the winter meetings once they've hired a new GM and give every team a chance to bid on him.

 

I mean if the Yankees or some other team is desperate and put a top player like Gleyber Torres on the table,  I'm sure the Mets wouldn't hang up.

 

I don’t think they are in a rush. Especially with the 3 headed GM thing going on. But his value is as high as it’s ever been and teams are more despearate now than they will be in the offseason. If someone outside the division blows you away with an offer, you have to at least consider it.

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12 hours ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

Here's a perfect example of what could happen in the offseason. The Dodgers falls just short yet again, they sign Machado and then turn around and make a crazy offer of Seager, Ruiz and Alvarez for him.

That does sound like a crazy offer.

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Not sure why the Braves wouldn’t be in on deGrom. Cash in some of those future pitchers for a now one, maybe throw them Pache if they have to. 

 

Or a Brewers package with Burnes and Hiura would be enticing. 

 

Colorado probably has the pieces also, and they’re hell bent on blocking any and all young players, so might as well trade them. 

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1 hour ago, andy1234 said:
21 hours ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

Why would the Mets be in a rush to trade their best player who is under control through the 2020 season ?

Why wouldn't they wait until the winter meetings once they've hired a new GM and give every team a chance to bid on him.

 

I mean if the Yankees or some other team is desperate and put a top player like Gleyber Torres on the table,  I'm sure the Mets wouldn't hang up.

 

I don’t think they are in a rush. Especially with the 3 headed GM thing going on. But his value is as high as it’s ever been and teams are more despearate now than they will be in the offseason. If someone outside the division blows you away with an offer, you have to at least consider it.

 

I agree his value is very high at the moment and might be at it's peak.  But we won't know until we start hearing concrete offers from some of the playoff teams.

Where I disagree is on what would be the best offer a team might make that the 3 headed GM would recommend to ownership now.

 

It really comes down to which direction ownership wants to go in the short term.  They give marching orders to whoever the GM is.

That's why I hope the Mets hire somebody from outside the organization and give him a budget and let him make the important decisions that need to be made.

 

For me,  I would hold onto deGrom, buy out his remaining two years of arbitration and offer him 6 year/$25m per or thereabouts.

If he rejects that offer,  then I would shop him during the winter meetings.

Most Yankee fans don't believe the team will offer a long term deal.  

I'm not as convinced but if they hire one of the current guys to be the GM,  it will be adios Jacob.

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18 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

I agree his value is very high at the moment and might be at it's peak.  But we won't know until we start hearing concrete offers from some of the playoff teams.

Where I disagree is on what would be the best offer a team might make that the 3 headed GM would recommend to ownership now.

 

It really comes down to which direction ownership wants to go in the short term.  They give marching orders to whoever the GM is.

That's why I hope the Mets hire somebody from outside the organization and give him a budget and let him make the important decisions that need to be made.

 

For me,  I would hold onto deGrom, buy out his remaining two years of arbitration and offer him 6 year/$25m per or thereabouts.

If he rejects that offer,  then I would shop him during the winter meetings.

Most Yankee fans don't believe the team will offer a long term deal.  

I'm not as convinced but if they hire one of the current guys to be the GM,  it will be adios Jacob.

To add on, I have heard that Fred Wilpon wants to see a championship before he dies and he is 81 right now. He has final say on all of these decisions so this could put a damper on any rebuild.

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On 7/16/2018 at 7:42 PM, My Dinner With Andre said:

Make no mistake: Every pitch deGrom throws, and every minute that ticks away on his control-ability, he loses value.

 

His "peak value" was probably in 2014 when he was 26.

 

Indeed, in 2015 deGrom was ranked 20th in Fangraphs trade value series. In 2016 he was ranked 22nd and in 2017 he was ranked 37th.

 

I doubt he'll rank higher than 20th in this year's rankings, but who knows.

 

Ranked 25th in the 2018 rankings

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10 hours ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

 

And he was #59 on Baseball America, #79 on ZIPS and not even ranked on Baseball Prospectus. Scouts have been mixed on him since the Yanks signed him out of DR. 

You can keep Andujar, I'd rather have Frazier, Florial and Sheffield. 

id throw in another piece for degrom as well

 

abreau, adams or a young pitcher like medina

 

you and i should be GMs

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17 hours ago, DidiFan said:

Trying to think about it from a Met fan's perspective and I totally get how they don't want to take the Yankee's 2nd best prospect for the Mets best player right now. I can see how it kind of leaves a bad taste in their mouth but really Andujar is not like some crumb-bum 2nd tier prospect like Colin Moran or something (no offense to Colin Moran I'm sure he's a nice guy.) Very few prospects are spotless and those few that are are most of the time untouchable like Torres appears to be right now. The thing of it is though is while Torres is probably the more polished player right now. Who is to stay that in 2+ years Andujar couldn't end up being the better player. I'm not a prospect guy so mostly I defer to FG lists etc when I'm interested in futures and glancing at the pre-season rankings they had Torres at 12 and Andujar at 14. Both with Future values of 60. The really impressive thing to me with Andujar is that despite the poor plate approach he still has a k rate of 17%. You can't teach those sort of bat to ball skills and also he has a cannon arm at 3rd another tool you can't teach. What you can develop with time, which the Mets should have the next year plus, is to become better defensively and to be more selective at the plate. I mean not for nothing he leads rookies in doubles with 27. The idea that there is nothing here to indicate that Andujar can't be a very good player potentially is just not fair imo. Also the idea that the Yankees don't value Andujar a lot too is odd to me especially considering they balked at including him in a deal for Cole before the season began. With DeGrom at peak value right now the Mets would be silly to just simply ignore an offer that started with Andujar, is he as MLB ready of a product as Torres? No. But he does have a lot of future value. To me its really not that hard at all to see a potentially very good player here in Andujar. 

 

17 hours ago, absknicks said:

Andujar was rated the #12 prospect in all of baseball before the season by Fangraphs. We're now 3 months in and he's probably 2nd/3rd in the ROY race. If he's not a guy who should be headlining a deal for deGrom, who is? 

 

Personally, I'd offer Andujar, Sheffield and Frazier. That's more than fair in my estimation and the Mets aren't going to get a better offer than that anywhere else.

This is a classic case of trying to hard ....

it’s too good 

fragile handle with care

do not shake 

bubble wrap IT 

 

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18 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

You could also do deGrom for Sanchez straight up.

 

It's not unreasonable.

 

deGrom has a higher trade value per fangraphs.

 

 

 

I've also seen that floated around elsewhere like on MLB Trade Rumors. I think that's a pill the Yankees could swallow if it was offered. But 40 HR calibre Catchers don't grow on trees, so I can't see the Yankees giving up Sanchino in any deal that isn't Mike Trout haha.

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On 7/17/2018 at 7:35 PM, DannyMcPot said:

Too much prospect hugging going on.

Yanks are set for a while in the OF with young guys in their prime. No need to hold onto Florial or Frazier when you can move them for a piece like DeGrom who they desperately need. 

They are set at 3B if they choose to sign Manny (who wants to be a Yankee). 

They are set at 2B with Gleyber.

They are set at SS with Didi.

Bird has work to do but Yanks will give him every opportunity at 1B. 

Their bullpen is lights out.

Literally all they need to become a dynasty is controlled SP. And if they have the opportunity to get one now for the stretch, you do it immediately. Who will help you win championships? 2-3 years of prime DeGrom with Severino or holding onto Sheffield and Florial? The Yanks are in the business of winning Championships. That's what Cashman is working towards. Not hoarding prospects with no place to put them.

 

Well put.  The Yankees right now essentially have one bona fide SP.  The others who follow him are a blow up waiting to happen against the best of the best (aka, playoffs).

 

deGrom pretty much gives them the best chance to lock up 3 championships with the team control they'd have (not guarantee but best shot).  Is that not another dynasty?  And he can probably be locked up longer if given a fair offer.  With Severino and deGrom in a short series and their offense and bullpen it's as much of a lock as you can hope for.  So yes, they should back up the truck while holding onto Gleyber. 

 

Andujar, Frazier, Sheffield and Florial or German should be enough to satisfy them. 

 

This gives the Mets several building blocks where they need them (3B, CF, SP) so that we're not looking at a 5 year re-build, while holding onto Thor, Matz and Wheeler who seems to be coming around finally.  Then Nimmo and Conforto (if his shoulder doesn't fall off) go back to corner OF and who knows - maybe glassman (Cespedes) can be the answer at 1B. 

 

They do need to move Cabrera and Familia immediately before they go on the DL again, particulalry Cabrera.

 

Move Bruce (eating the contract) for whatever low level minor leaguer they can to further stock the farm.

Move Blevins to whomever will take him for something.

 

Now, with all that said, nothing good will actually happen with the current ownership in place.  The Mets will be hapless for years to come (save for an unforeseen anomaly like 2015) as long as the Wilpons (and that dopey son) are in charge.  How do you defend contracts like Swarzak and Vargas.  I mean, 2 years???  Come on!

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31 minutes ago, jr461 said:

 

Well put.  The Yankees right now essentially have one bona fide SP.  The others who follow him are a blow up waiting to happen against the best of the best (aka, playoffs).

 

deGrom pretty much gives them the best chance to lock up 3 championships with the team control they'd have (not guarantee but best shot).  Is that not another dynasty?  And he can probably be locked up longer if given a fair offer.  With Severino and deGrom in a short series and their offense and bullpen it's as much of a lock as you can hope for.  So yes, they should back up the truck while holding onto Gleyber. 

 

Andujar, Frazier, Sheffield and Florial or German should be enough to satisfy them. 

 

This gives the Mets several building blocks where they need them (3B, CF, SP) so that we're not looking at a 5 year re-build, while holding onto Thor, Matz and Wheeler who seems to be coming around finally.  Then Nimmo and Conforto (if his shoulder doesn't fall off) go back to corner OF and who knows - maybe glassman (Cespedes) can be the answer at 1B. 

 

They do need to move Cabrera and Familia immediately before they go on the DL again, particulalry Cabrera.

 

Move Bruce (eating the contract) for whatever low level minor leaguer they can to further stock the farm.

Move Blevins to whomever will take him for something.

 

Now, with all that said, nothing good will actually happen with the current ownership in place.  The Mets will be hapless for years to come (save for an unforeseen anomaly like 2015) as long as the Wilpons (and that dopey son) are in charge.  How do you defend contracts like Swarzak and Vargas.  I mean, 2 years???  Come on!

been saying this for 5 pages lol

 

id give up the big 4 for degrom.  andujar, frazier, sheffield, florial....thats a huge trade

 

id first call up tampa tho and try to get Snell for those 4 plus Medina, Abreu

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If he's traded want him to stay in the NL. My wish, the Braves! 

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