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Jacob deGrom 2018 Outlook

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I am surprised teams don't make there SPs bat the same handedness as they pitch to avoid injury like they used to do. Doc Gooden was a lefty hitter originally until the Mets told him to learn righty to protect the arm. I know it was more to protect it from getting hit but it could also prevent this hyperextended elbow injury as well.

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Yes, the Mets have a very checkered injury history (believe me, I know this as a lifelong fan), but do people realize that the Met's doctors are at the Hospital for Special Surgery, the #1 ranked orthopedic hospital in the country? Syndergaard's situation was different as he refused the MRI. DeGrom had an MRI and was cleared.

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13 minutes ago, PPolanco said:

Well Degrom had his MRI. The Mets are well aware of the PR situation and how their medical staff is viewed. I really don't see them making another foolish mistake

 

When was it just a singular mistake.  Shouldn't your post read "yet MORE foolish mistakes" plural?  They say the same thing about all their pitchers.  They are fine because all limbs are kind of still attached to the body.  They can go out and pitch with no problem.  The only starter that hasn't been screwed over by them so far has been deGrom and now they have him in their clutches.

 

The definition of insanity is now officially the NY Mets Medical Staff doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  :wacko:

 

But seriously even Mets players have leaked to reporters in the past that they don't trust their medical staff.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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1 minute ago, rookies and cream said:

Yes, the Mets have a very checkered injury history (believe me, I know this as a lifelong fan), but do people realize that the Met's doctors are at the Hospital for Special Surgery, the #1 ranked orthopedic hospital in the country? Syndergaard's situation was different as he refused the MRI. DeGrom had an MRI and was cleared.

You should know better than anyone to err on the side of caution then. I would be freaking out if I were a Mets fan.

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3 minutes ago, rookies and cream said:

Yes, the Mets have a very checkered injury history (believe me, I know this as a lifelong fan), but do people realize that the Met's doctors are at the Hospital for Special Surgery, the #1 ranked orthopedic hospital in the country? Syndergaard's situation was different as he refused the MRI. DeGrom had an MRI and was cleared.

 

Even earlier this year, they let Swarzak throw after he was clearly injured.  I watched that game and couldn't believe they left him in there after he clearly winced and was hurt on the HR to Carpenter. Then they listed him as day-to-day and said it likely wasn't that bad before putting him on the DL.  It's been over a month and the guy hasn't thrown a pitch since.

 

I understand what you are saying, but this organization just continues to make questionable decisions, which is why we are all skeptical. 

Edited by The Czar
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19 minutes ago, rookies and cream said:

Yes, the Mets have a very checkered injury history (believe me, I know this as a lifelong fan), but do people realize that the Met's doctors are at the Hospital for Special Surgery, the #1 ranked orthopedic hospital in the country? Syndergaard's situation was different as he refused the MRI. DeGrom had an MRI and was cleared.

 

You sure they are not the "special" doctors more than the hospital is a special place?  :ph34r:

 

You can have bad doctors in good places.  And even if the doctor is good in one area doesn't make him good in all areas like say sports medicine. 

 

And a medical position with a professional sports team just like any other position in life has more to do with the good old boys network than ability.  For that position it usually is 99% who you know.  So that happens often if the doctor has an "in" with an owner of sports teams regards the team's medical staff.  "Hey Bill you remember when all of us went on that panty raid at Snob U.?  BTW I hear you have an opening for team doctor."  And the owner really does believe the guy is a good doctor no doubt too.

 

In other words a lot of us just don't believe team propaganda I would call it on how good a doctor is etc.  We've worked at enough jobs in life to know how things usually go down in regards to the higher up positions in an organization.  So time to cross your fingers for deGrom.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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13 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

You sure they are not the "special" doctors more than the hospital is a special place?  :ph34r:

 

You can have bad doctors in good places.  And even if the doctor is good in one area doesn't make him good in all areas like say sports medicine. 

 

And a medical position with a professional sports team just like any other position in life has more to do with the good old boys network than ability.  For that position it usually is 99% who you know.  So that happens often if the doctor has an "in" with an owner of sports teams regards the team's medical staff.  "Hey Bill you remember when all of us went on that panty raid at Snob U.?  BTW I hear you have an opening for team doctor."  And the owner really does believe the guy is a good doctor no doubt too.

 

In other words a lot of us just don't believe team propaganda I would call it on how good a doctor is etc.  We've worked at enough jobs in life to know how things usually go down in regards to the higher up positions in an organization.  So time to cross your fingers for deGrom.

I think Dr. Altcheck is pretty well known to be the best in his field right there with  Dr. Andrews.

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16 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

I think Dr. Altcheck is pretty well known to be the best in his field right there with  Dr. Andrews.

 

Exactly. I think we need to differentiate medical diagnoses from organizational/training staff decisions. The Mets were provided with the results from deGrom's examination/MRI and now they need to apply this information and develop a plan in terms of how to proceed next. The latter is what has historically gone wrong with the Mets.

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17 minutes ago, rookies and cream said:

 

Exactly. I think we need to differentiate medical diagnoses from organizational/training staff decisions. The Mets were provided with the results from deGrom's examination/MRI and now they need to apply this information and develop a plan in terms of how to proceed next. The latter is what has historically gone wrong with the Mets.

This. In-game injury management as well. An orthopedist isn't trotting guys out for innings after pain. That's all Micky, Jacob, Terry Collins, Anthony and so on. Not much a surgeon can do to counter an old school "walk it off; pitch through it" mentality, or players getting tough guy props for under-reporting symptoms. (I'm not saying that's going on here, but it looks like it may be from 30,000 feet)

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1 hour ago, bdy1 said:

(I'm not saying that's going on here, but it looks like it may be from 30,000 feet)

 

Lots of doctors from 30,000 feet. 

 

The player says he's good to go, he goes unless their's an obvious injury.  Players play through pain all of the time.

The MRI verified nothing wrong.  deGrom will throw in between starts and report if anything is still bothering him.

They will probably skip him a turn out of caution.  I'm not sure what else people want with this incident.

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1 minute ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

I'm not sure what else people want with this incident.

 

I'd like them to DL him so I can add someone else. That would be nice. : )

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5 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

 

I'd like them to DL him so I can add someone else. That would be nice. : )

His throw day is on Friday.  If deGrom feels good he is probably pitching. 

If he feels anything I would guess skip a turn possibly DL at that point.

Edited by Brooklyn Dude

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5 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

His throw day is on Monday.  If deGrom feels good he is probably pitching. 

If he feels anything I would guess skip a turn possibly DL at that point.

 

I am half joking but I think even if he says he feels good DL him and bring him back in 10 days. The Mets have screwed so many of these situations up already err on the conservative side. 

Edited by fletch44
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1 minute ago, fletch44 said:

 

I am half joking but I think even if he says he feels good DL him and bring him back in 10 days. The Mets have screwed so many of these situations up already ere on the conservative side. 

He is an ace pitcher.  I think his input matters.  The team will listen to him knowing there is no ligament damage.

There not going to pitch him if he feels anything's not right.  It looks like deGrom was lucky this time.

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6 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

He is an ace pitcher.  I think his input matters.  The team will listen to him knowing there is no ligament damage.

There not going to pitch him if he feels anything's not right.  It looks like deGrom was lucky this time.

 

You should never listen to players.  They almost always try to hide injuries and want to play through anything.  It is for the medical staff, front office and coaching staff to put the brakes on in these situations and err on the side of caution at the very least.  Almost every team in baseball does just that.  Except the Mets.  They never do that and their once stellar pitching rotation has paid for it time after time after time.

 

That is why you always see this push back every time they clear a guy to play when you know every other team in baseball would sit him for one start at the very least.  The Mets are NOT like any other team in baseball when it comes to injuries and their players suffer because of it.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

You should never listen to players

This is so wrong and clearly something no medical person ever said.

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2 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

You should never listen to players.  They almost always try to hide injuries and want to play through anything.  It is for the medical staff, front office and coaching staff to put the brakes on in these situations and err on the side of caution at the very least.  Almost every team in baseball does just that.  Except the Mets.  They never do that and their once stellar pitching rotation has paid for it time after time after time.

 

Also why I was so baffled by the Swarzak injury.  He winced and was hurting and they let him throw 10 more pitches until that muscle blew out.  Likely turning something that might might have been minor and would have taken a day or two into something that will cost him a month and a half.

 

They did the same exact thing with Thor last year. He was hurt and they let him pitch through it, likely turning a minor injury into a major one.

 

Somebody needs to be watching for this crap in the dugout.  I've watched plenty of other clubs and once a guy even changes his motion slightly, the trainers and staff are all over it and coming out to the mound.  Mets are always asleep at the wheel when it comes to this stuff.

 

This is a little different in that deGrom did at least get an MRI, but I still keep coming back to the fact they let him throw another inning.  THAT should have never happened.  He needs be 100% if he goes out there next start or tell the Mets he can't go.  The Mets need to exercise a little bit more caution on this stuff.

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8 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

This is so wrong and clearly something no medical person ever said.

 

So you should let the player play, even if it's obvious they are hurt as long as they tell you they are good to go?

 

Also what they did with Cespedes and the hamstring issue last year too, turning a minor injury into a major one. It was clear he was hurt and trying to play through it.  Sometimes it's better to let the guy heal over the tough guy routine.  I get that players need to play hurt sometimes, but this franchise has a really bad history of this. 

 

Obviously the medical staff listens to the players, but when it's obvious a guy is hurt and trying to play through it, the team needs to be better about protecting their guys.

 

I hope deGrom is healthy and able to go and is honest with them if he is not.

Edited by The Czar
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3 minutes ago, The Czar said:

 

So you should let the player play, even if it's obvious they are hurt as long as they tell you they are good to go?

 

Also what they did with Cespedes and the hamstring issue last year too, turning a minor injury into a major one. It was clear he was hurt and trying to play through it.  Sometimes it's better to let the guy heal over the tough guy routine.  I get that players need to play hurt sometimes, but this franchise has a really bad history of this. 

 

Obviously the medical staff listens to the players, but when it's obvious a guy is hurt and trying to play through it, the team needs to be better about protecting their guys.

 

I hope deGrom is healthy and able to go and is honest with them if he is not.

 

3 minutes ago, The Czar said:

So you should let the player play, even if it's obvious they are hurt as long as they tell you they are good to go?

If it's obvious he's hurt,  you should not let him play.  This has been said already.

 

This discussion is in regards to if he is not hurt which is where we are right now.

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10 day DL retroactive means he skips one start which is probably a good idea.

Plus it means we can pick up a guy in the meantime to see how he works out.

They never take our needs into consideration.

 

I'm joking but I just hope he's ok.

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3 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

If it's obvious he's hurt,  you should not let him play.  This has been said already.

 

This discussion is in regards to if he is not hurt which is where we are right now.

Negative MRI =/= "not hurt"

 

Tomorrow he plays catch. And will report how he feels. Presumably, knowledgeable types will observe his mechanics and weigh in as well. If the prognosis is "go" I will be happy to start him, but not at all relieved. If it looks like he may or may not be healthy I trust the Mets to err on the side of recklessness. Fool me four times, we don't get fooled again. 

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1 hour ago, tesla said:

10 day DL retroactive means he skips one start which is probably a good idea.

Plus it means we can pick up a guy in the meantime to see how he works out.

They never take our needs into consideration.

 

I'm joking but I just hope he's ok.

 

I'm hoping DeGrom tells them he has a bit of pain and misses a start. Doubt that will happen though because he's so darned competitive. That competitive thing sure can be a double edged sword when it comes to things like this.

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1 hour ago, bdy1 said:

Negative MRI =/= "not hurt"

 

Tomorrow he plays catch. And will report how he feels. Presumably, knowledgeable types will observe his mechanics and weigh in as well. If the prognosis is "go" I will be happy to start him, but not at all relieved. If it looks like he may or may not be healthy I trust the Mets to err on the side of recklessness. Fool me four times, we don't get fooled again. 

The MRI was negative.  There was no ligament damage in his elbow.  That was the primary concern.  So now we know the elbow is not injured.

deGrom is going to throw and see if there is anything else to be concerned about or if there is still pain.

 

I'm not sure what the team can do other than to test it out on his throw day and find out.

And I don't know why people think deGrom would put his elbow at risk if he did not agree with this course of action.

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2 minutes ago, 6Time said:

 

Perhaps go back and read the last 2 pages.  Yes, we saw/heard about it.  MRI is clean, which is great news.  That said, I think the majority here don't necessarily think it's all sunshine and lollipops.  In fact, many like myself would just like to see him rest without throwing for a number of days regardless of the clean MRI.   The MRI does not mean that it is not completely without swelling or that throwing may aggravate it.  This is a guy that has had TJ.  Give him a blow for a week.

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