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duke of queens

New York Mets 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2018-11-05. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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1 hour ago, absknicks said:
5 hours ago, duke of queens said:

There is no one in their fanbase that thinks they can or will sign any of those players.

 

There's plenty of them. Just turn on WFAN sometime. Or check Twitter. 

 

Plenty of delusional Mets fans think they can sign those players

 

All you have to do is write check bigger than the next guy. It's that easy. This according to the fans. So, the Wilpons, if they wanted Machado he would be theirs.

 

None think it will happen.

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4 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

Plenty of delusional Mets fans think they can sign those players

 

All you have to do is write check bigger than the next guy. It's that easy. This according to the fans. So, the Wilpons, if they wanted Machado he would be theirs.

 

None think it will happen.

They are not fans and dont follow the team if they think that.

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1 hour ago, absknicks said:

 

There's plenty of them. Just turn on WFAN sometime. Or check Twitter. 

 

Apparently "The Life of a Mets Fan" guy on that YouTube video isn't one of them, haha.  Also I think he doesn't like their manager.... lol.

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10 over through their first 11 games and currently 15 under before the 4th of July. Can we get a polite, little golf clap for the depth of that ineptitude? Being that bad isn’t easy most teams couldn’t on purpose. 

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Who needs free agents?  Tebow is coming to save the day

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Jeff Wilpon during Sandy’s press conference when he was stepping down reiterated that he is the president of baseball operations and any potential trade and/or signing will at its end go through him. If this is going to be their formula going forward with a new general manager they better at least draft well. The minor league system is their biggest problem besides major injuries. Need an entirely new bullpen too can’t forget that. I watched Jeff try to open the huge champagne bottle after the 2015 NLCS and even as good as that moment was to watch as a fan “the boss’s idiot son” still came to mind.

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Lost 14 series in a row?! 

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2 hours ago, BMcP said:

Lost 14 series in a row?! 

That is a special level of ineptitude with an ace like deGrom on your club.  You’d think in a 3 game series he pitched they could salvage one other game he didn’t pitch.  This is a very special Mets club.  Specially horrific.  They take on the personality of their highest paid gutless loser player Yoenis Cespedes.   49 mil committed to David Wright and Cespedes.  And neither come off until after 2020.  They were better off giving that money to Madoff to blow on yachts and hookers.  At least it would of got put to use someway.

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Posted (edited)

Callaway replaces relief pitcher before pinch hitter was announced. Phillies call back pinch hitter and now that hitter is still available.

 

...lol

 

 

.

Edited by kidtwentytwo
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On 7/1/2018 at 8:25 AM, absknicks said:

There's actually a delusional portion of the fanbase that thinks if they sign Machado/Harper and keep their "core" intact they'll be competitive next year.

 

1. Why on earth would Machado/Harper have any interest in signing with the Mets?

 

2. The Wilpons aren't shelling out for either of those guys, even if they did want to come 

 

3. Their position player core consists of Amed Rosario (been dreadful ever since he's been up at MLB), Michael Conforto and Brandon Nimmo. I like Nimmo and Conforto but if those are the two guys you're building your team around long-term, you're in trouble. And given they have one of the 2-3 worst farm systems in baseball, it's not like there's anything real exciting at the lower levels, either.

 

 

 

How many times has a player turned down the most money offered in MLB? It's not often and their union is completely against that. This isn't the NBA. Most major leaguers goes to the team that offers the most money. All that said most Mets fans are not delusional and we know that the Wilpons will not offer the most money. So Machado is probably out. 

 

And FWIW adding Machado would tremendously help in turning things around for them. He would infuse some much needed youth, talent and skill on the hitting side. 

 

According to most non Mets fans, Mets fans should just sit back and let management trade away our best players because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. We should sit back and not think about signing a Machado because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. Right? Give me a break!

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41 minutes ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

 

How many times has a player turned down the most money offered in MLB? It's not often and their union is completely against that. This isn't the NBA. Most major leaguers goes to the team that offers the most money. All that said most Mets fans are not delusional and we know that the Wilpons will not offer the most money. So Machado is probably out. 

 

And FWIW adding Machado would tremendously help in turning things around for them. He would infuse some much needed youth, talent and skill on the hitting side. 

 

According to most non Mets fans, Mets fans should just sit back and let management trade away our best players because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. We should sit back and not think about signing a Machado because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. Right? Give me a break!

 

Yes, because even if you did manage to sign Machado, you'd still have almost no young talent and the worst farm system in baseball. Not exactly a formula for winning.

 

There's no shortcuts here... the Mets are a complete mess and need a total rebuild. Seems everyone but a small segment of Mets fans understand that.

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Posted (edited)

I love how the only solutions are such extremes. 

 

Trade deGrom and/or Syndergaard

 

or

 

Sign Machado to a stupid (ie, extravagant) $300 million contract

 

How about making good, small deadline deals; drafting better; make better int'l signings; and, for the love of god, figure out how to keep your players on the field

 

(P.S. Machado isn't going to do you any good if he ends up injured too. Why would we think of any other outcome?)

Edited by My Dinner With Andre
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If anyone thought the Mets' 36 year old washed up allstar lineup was going to stay healthy/win games then they must be a Mets fan.

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1 hour ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

 

How many times has a player turned down the most money offered in MLB? It's not often and their union is completely against that. This isn't the NBA. Most major leaguers goes to the team that offers the most money. All that said most Mets fans are not delusional and we know that the Wilpons will not offer the most money. So Machado is probably out. 

 

And FWIW adding Machado would tremendously help in turning things around for them. He would infuse some much needed youth, talent and skill on the hitting side. 

 

According to most non Mets fans, Mets fans should just sit back and let management trade away our best players because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. We should sit back and not think about signing a Machado because the team is bad and the farm system is bad. Right? Give me a break!

 

I just can't.  My post will be purged if I answer this too directly.

 

(Composing myself, cough).  Championship teams of today rebuilt themselves in the past.  Houston and the Cubs are poster children for this approach though using different flavors of same.  Even the Yankees reeled in the throwing money at everyone every single year and rode out the bad contracts while building up one of the best farm systems in the majors where they can use their farm and/or trade from same for what they need. 

 

If you don't rebuild you will always have one season after another like this one from hell like the Mets do now.  Wasting money and losing someone like a Nimmo (the Mets have no farm and this could be the price for a rental at this point given 7 teams are all bidding on Rental Machado right now) is stupid, dumb and idiotic beyond belief.  Like pouring out your last water in the middle of the desert because you'd rather to cut up your canteen to make a pretty headband and matching wrist bracelets so you can style amid the dunes as you die.

 

Machado has so good of a chance to finally have a chance of going to the World Series this season or at least enjoying the thrill of post season play.  So Manny would be soooooooooo pissed he went from a dreadful team to one possibly even worse he would probably go all Achilles and sulk in his tent.  (Well I would if I was Machado and I got traded to the Mets anyway). 

 

And no way would he sign with the Mets in the off season if they were the highest bidder.  He already has been living in baseball hell.  He wants no more hell seasons.  And players take less to play with better teams all the time.  Usually it is called the hometown discount but sometimes they do when moving to a new team.  Machado will get a zillion dollar contract no matter where he signs.  An extra million or two from a team from hell won't tempt him over wining a ring and having fun for years on a good team. 

 

Plus if the Phillies really want him they can outbid anyone in baseball because they are so under the luxury tax it is unbelievable and they have the super deep pockets and are willing to pay what it takes.  And they also took the time to rebuild their team and rebuild it the right way.  They will be reaching for the ring as early as next year and might catch lightning to contend this year and look to have a good chance at the least to be a wild card or win the east if the Braves falter.  They are a super good, young team players want to go to now.

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Yeah the Mess need to really look in the mirror and rebuild. The worst thing to do is to keep lying to themselves that they are one step away from contention and continuing to plug up holes with bandaids. They need to develop some star hitters for god's sake.

 

Nimmo's very encouraging but you need more. Paying flawed free agents ain't the way to go. It's ok to have a Frazier or Bruce to complete a post-season quality roster, but not both at once. 

 

 

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BA: .227

xBA: .240

 

SLG: .378

xSLG: .412

 

wOBA: .298

xwOBA: .312

 

They need Cespedes back because their current group of hitters aren't producing. It's not even bad luck, it's atrocious hitting.

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2 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

I love how the only solutions are such extremes. 

 

Trade deGrom and/or Syndergaard

 

or

 

Sign Machado to a stupid (ie, extravagant) $300 million contract

 

How about making good, small deadline deals; drafting better; make better int'l signings; and, for the love of god, figure out how to keep your players on the field

 

(P.S. Machado isn't going to do you any good if he ends up injured too. Why would we think of any other outcome?)

 

That's actually the worst thing you could do. This organization is a complete mess. It needs a total tear down. Applying band aids is not going to work, I promise you.

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You would figure Machado would want to go to a contender, not a team in need of a rebuild.  He has been through that with the O's lol.  Anything is possible, but there is likely zero chance the Mets could sign him even if they were willing to badly over pay imo.

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Mets have two players in the HOF that they drafted, Seaver and Ryan. And they traded both away for pennies on the dollar. Not saying DeGrom and Thor are of those caliber pitchers but lets just say if they trade them  they are gonna get ripped off.

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Tear down and rebuild? They did that already. They had a team full of young and talented pitchers in 2015 and they screwed that up. Unless ownership changes here nothing else will. Degrom is still under team control for a while and as a fan I don't want them to trade him for a bunch of guys that more than likely will turn out to be nothing. I want to see him pitch every five days. How about they stop signing guys like Swarzak, Bruce and Frazier and finally sign guys like Machado?  Or draft guys that are actually good, maybe just maybe draft guys that you may have to go over the slot amount to pay. Because those guys are worth it.

 

Earlier this year I complained on this forum that I hated the Swarzak, Bruce and Frazier signings and some told me that I was being unreasonable because they finally did something and Mets fans should be happy. They were terrible signings at the time and clearly they are now. This team is stuck where it is and locked into some terrible contracts. It's too little too late. There's going to be no tear down and rebuild here, simply because they can't. They will not eat any of that money, that is not how this ownership operates. So if you're going to force me to watch a team that is rostering Bruce, Frazier, Cespedes and Swarzak then at least let me enjoy the games that DeGrom and Sydergaard pitches. 

 

Let me take this a step further... look at Rosario, they have completely ruined a kid that was a top prospect on many lists last season. How? Here's just one example: He has 4 IBB's hitting out of the 8th or 9th hole. Teams are intentionally walking a guy that is hitting .234. They're doing this when there's a man on base because they want to face the pitcher. He hasn't been getting any good pitches this season because of where they are hitting him. How is he suppose to develop? Either move him up in this lost season or send him down to AAA to get straightened out. But don't ruin the kid! It's little things like this that will prevent this team from ever competing at a high level unless they get completely lucky. 

 

As for Machado, yes I want him and Harper. Clearly not going to happen but if a team has a 150 million plus payroll those are the types of players to go after. I also think the Phils will get him. I'm not a delusional Mets fan, I'm a realist and I've seen how the Wilpons have operated for the better part of the last two decades. We're stuck and as fans we need to do something here. Citi Field should be empty the rest of the way! 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Fantasy Baseball Geek said:

Earlier this year I complained on this forum that I hated the Swarzak, Bruce and Frazier signings and some told me that I was being unreasonable because they finally did something and Mets fans should be happy. They were terrible signings at the time and clearly they are now. This team is stuck where it is and locked into some terrible contracts. It's too little too late. There's going to be no tear down and rebuild here, simply because they can't. They will not eat any of that money, that is not how this ownership operates. So if you're going to force me to watch a team that is rostering Bruce, Frazier, Cespedes and Swarzak then at least let me enjoy the games that DeGrom and Sydergaard pitches. 

 

 

On the Frazier and Bruce signings, I would completely agree with you.  You can add on Granderson if you want to go back a little further.  The Mets management clearly has no clue imo as anyone who watched Granderson and Frazier knew what they had turned into...low avg, fundamentally flawed players that would hit a few HRs but offer not much else offensively imo.  And Bruce, while not as flawed a player as the other 2, was never really that great either and was always a very streaky hitter.  It almost seems like they sign someone based on HR totals and ignore everything else.  What their scouts are reporting to management is anyone's guess, but one has to wonder what they saw in them in the first place. 

 

That said, the organization needs new management imo and a rebuild.  Their offense outside of Cespedes (when he is on the field) and maybe Cabrera is just woeful.  And they are not going to get a top free agent to come play for them unless they wildly overpay (and that would be a mistake).   What good is having Degrom and Syndergaard pitch 2 of every 5 games if their offense is so lame it can't score for them?  What they should try to do is trade most of their useful players (Familia, Cabrera, etc) for prospects.  Maybe see if they can unload Bruce as part of it, though I doubt it.  Maybe try to convince D. Wright to retire lol (no chance of that).  Their aces can stay or go in the right deal, but as long as they retain the current management team, the likelihood they even would recognize a good deal if they got it is zero imo.  As the saying goes, the fish rots from the head and as long as ownership continues to cycle through a clueless GM and bad scouts\player development personnel, none of that will make a difference imo.

Edited by secretagentman

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They need to build a farm system. They need new owners/management. But there are quite a few decent options entering free agency. Even if they don't land a superstar, I refuse to believe this team lacks the financial resources to at least cobble together something tolerable while the farm system develops. Be mediocre and hope you get lucky. It's possible to sneak into the playoffs and do some damage. This isn't Oakland or Tampa. It's NY. They have money to rebuild without completely blowing everything up. This team isn't devoid of talent. Blowing it all up and being good in 5 years is a viable strategy. But it's not their only option to being a competitive franchise. 

 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/

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3 hours ago, AnonymousRob said:

They need to build a farm system. They need new owners/management. But there are quite a few decent options entering free agency. Even if they don't land a superstar, I refuse to believe this team lacks the financial resources to at least cobble together something tolerable while the farm system develops. Be mediocre and hope you get lucky. It's possible to sneak into the playoffs and do some damage. This isn't Oakland or Tampa. It's NY. They have money to rebuild without completely blowing everything up. This team isn't devoid of talent. Blowing it all up and being good in 5 years is a viable strategy. But it's not their only option to being a competitive franchise. 

 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/

 

Money tied up in terrible contracts plus luxury tax plus stingy ownership plus a bad front office say no to that strategy.  Hell they are still paying Wright through 2020.  And if they bought some pieces in the off season they would just add the Bruce type of losers given their talent in that regards.  The Yankees threw money at far better players and in the end decided that format is no longer viable with the luxury tax era and changed to a sustainable template.

 

Also the Mets will be competing with Miami for the cellar the next few years because the Nats have enough to hang on and be competitive and the Braves and Phillies are looking like awesome young teams on the rise.

 

Most fan bases are fine with rebuilds.  Why the resistance with the Mets fans?

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