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New York Mets 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2018-11-05. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Most fan bases are fine with rebuilds.  Why the resistance with the Mets fans?

What makes you think I'm a Mets fan? 

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1 hour ago, AnonymousRob said:

What makes you think I'm a Mets fan? 

 

Sorry i didn't word that right so I see why you thought I was still talking about your post.  It was more about the Mets fan above that wanted them to go out and throw the bank at a Machado rental.

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4 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Sorry i didn't word that right so I see why you thought I was still talking about your post.  It was more about the Mets fan above that wanted them to go out and throw the bank at a Machado rental.

 

Went back a couple of pages, who said anything about a rental of any kind?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Sorry i didn't word that right so I see why you thought I was still talking about your post.  It was more about the Mets fan above that wanted them to go out and throw the bank at a Machado rental.

 

Because a lot of Mets fans have that same "If we can keep our pitching staff and best hitters healthy then we can be contenders!" mindset. They'll say the exact same thing next season again. Meanwhile the Phillies and Braves are already ahead of schedule and getting younger and better….

Edited by Sine_cera
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43 minutes ago, Sine_cera said:

 

Because a lot of Mets fans have that same "If we can keep our pitching staff and best hitters healthy then we can be contenders!" mindset. They'll say the exact same thing next season again. Meanwhile the Phillies and Braves are already ahead of schedule and getting younger and better….

 

And then deGrom will get hurt and they'll end up getting nothing for him. 

 

As bad as it is now, this has the potential to get far worse.

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Yea lets keep talking about the fans and not the team itself.. I guess the fans are the problem. Makes total sense!

 

Anyway, who's executing or at the very least starting the rebuild? Since we're all in agreement for the most part that DeGrom's value probably won't be any higher than it is right now, who will make the deal? Do they have a GM? If so, what's his name? Then you've got Jeff Wilpon who said publicly last week that all deals must be approved by him and that he is the President of Baseball Operations. Is that the guy that we're going to trust to trade DeGrom? I mean if he's the one that's going to start the rebuild by trading away their best player and the fans favorite player, can you guys not see why a lot of Mets fans don't want to trade him away? 

 

And please stop with the WFAN references. Those callers are screened in order to keep the dialog going. Most Mets fans, the majority of which does not call a radio station, do not want to trade DeGrom or Sydergaard because they just don't trust management to execute a good trade. 

 

At least we can all agree on one thing, this organization sucks from top to bottom. We can hang our hats on that. 

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11 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Sorry i didn't word that right so I see why you thought I was still talking about your post.  It was more about the Mets fan above that wanted them to go out and throw the bank at a Machado rental.

I don't think many were arguing for him to be a rental as much as an off-season signing. I agree a trade would be absurd.

This team can't just sign free agents forever, but this team should have deep enough pockets to be vaguely competitive while they grow the farm system. 

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8 hours ago, Sine_cera said:

 

Because a lot of Mets fans have that same "If we can keep our pitching staff and best hitters healthy then we can be contenders!" mindset. They'll say the exact same thing next season again. Meanwhile the Phillies and Braves are already ahead of schedule and getting younger and better….

 

I think its more so that fact that the Mets always end up rebuilding when they have a team with the potential to contend. Yeah the injuries have sucked, but it's also the fact that ownership doesn't want to spend/trade to get that one missing piece and when they do spend, it always ends up backfiring or not getting a 2nd rate player that is available.

 

It's a shame because this pitching staff was special. Of course you can't account for injuries, but you can account for depth. Instead, the Wilpons throw money at bums like Jason Vargas. Instead, they could have pushed that money and signed Moustakas. Give him a huge one year deal. /end rant

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1 minute ago, andy1234 said:

 

I think its more so that fact that the Mets always end up rebuilding when they have a team with the potential to contend. Yeah the injuries have sucked, but it's also the fact that ownership doesn't want to spend/trade to get that one missing piece and when they do spend, it always ends up backfiring or not getting a 2nd rate player that is available.

 

 

Except they don' need one piece.  They need about a half dozen pieces.  And they can't buy their way to a playoff spot because of that.  They need a farm for both new blood and decent prospects they can trade for "pieces."

 

They really should look at that other New York team.  The Yankees learned the hard way that in this new era of the luxury tax making a very serious impact now unlike the past and international signings having a limited pool of money that you just can;t throw endless money at your problems no matter how deep your pockets.  So they changed with the times quickly learning that a strong farm is essential.  And once you see you are out of it for a season start selling for prospects.  Only then can your deep pockets come in as a "kicker" to that you might say.

 

Classic example of the one-two punch is renting out Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber Torres and others then using their deep pockets to get Chapman back in the off season.

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Except they don' need one piece.  They need about a half dozen pieces.  And they can't buy their way to a playoff spot because of that.  They need a farm for both new blood and decent prospects they can trade for "pieces."

 

They really should look at that other New York team.  The Yankees learned the hard way that in this new era of the luxury tax making a very serious impact now unlike the past and international signings having a limited pool of money that you just can;t throw endless money at your problems no matter how deep your pockets.  So they changed with the times quickly learning that a strong farm is essential.  And once you see you are out of it for a season start selling for prospects.  Only then can your deep pockets come in as a "kicker" to that you might say.

 

Classic example of the one-two punch is renting out Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber Torres and others then using their deep pockets to get Chapman back in the off season.

Problem is the Mets would rather get rid of salary than get better prospects back.

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At this point,  I'm pretty well convinced a forced sale is the only hope for this franchise.  MLB should take its brand more seriously

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Posted (edited)

Wish people would stop comparing the Mets to the Yankees.

 

Cashman got lucky as hell with the Chapman and Miller deals. Right assets, right time (ie, two franchises desperate for a World Series)

 

And sometimes prospects don't always light the world on fire when they come up. It's OK to take time to develop. I wouldn't write Rosario off yet.

Edited by My Dinner With Andre
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

Wish people would stop comparing the Mets to the Yankees.

 

Cashman got lucky as hell with the Chapman and Miller deals. Right assets, right time (ie, two franchises desperate for a World Series)

 

And sometimes prospects don't always light the world on fire when they come up. It's OK to take time to develop. I wouldn't write Rosario off yet.

 

I wouldn't call it luck.  I call it that the Yankees have a good front office and the Mets have a terrible one.  And everyone in baseball knew Torres was as sure a bet as any prospect ever.  They actually had bad luck in the deal in that they had to wait out a long injury.  So, just no, I can't agree.  The Yankees were not lucky, they were competent.  And this is coming from a Sox fan.

 

And of course you are going to compare the NY teams to each other just as you do the two Chicago teams etc.  They are playing in the same big market so they are on an even playing field that way.  What you don't do is compare the Twins to the Yankees say.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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People give up on every team that's down, but the Mets actually have some solid pieces.

 

DeGrom is an Ace.  They actually have a Bona fide Ace.  That's more than a lot of contending teams can say.  Who is Milwaukee's Ace?  Javy Guerra?  They have a good number 2 with Syndegaard.  I don't buy that it's impossible Syndegaard stays healthy for a full season.  Then they have Zach Wheeler.  If Wheeler could just get his head out of his arse and learn to pitch he could easily emerge into another elite starter.  Wheeler has excellent stuff. Steven Matz/Seth Lugo.  Fine for 4/5 starters,

 

They have a horror show for a Bullpen.  But how often have teams made a signing here and a call up there and greatly improve the bullpen from year to year?  

 

The offense is underrated.  There's a lot of walk machines in the lieup.  Nimmo, conforto,  Plawecki/Mesoraco and combine with Decent production from Flores and Cabrera.  They just have to do things like avoid signing Agon and Todd Frazier and other players who aren't going to get them anywhere.

 

Sure some more things need to break right.  They need a full healthy year from Cespedes (remember him?) and they need Conforto to be the player a lot of people thought he would be (who didn't take a flyer ?) and they need Wheeler to find his head.  They need to improve the bullpen.  But we aren't talking miracles.  

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9 minutes ago, KingJoffrey said:

Sure some more things need to break right.  They need a full healthy year from Cespedes (remember him?) and they need Conforto to be the player a lot of people thought he would be (who didn't take a flyer ?) and they need Wheeler to find his head.  They need to improve the bullpen.  But we aren't talking miracles.  

 

A lot of things have to break right as in there are three teams in the NL East that are way better then them and two of them (Braves and Phillies) are on the very fast rise from their logical and rational rebuilds and have super good and deep farms as well to use to bring up more ammo or trade for really good vets and it provides them a buffer for injuries as well.

 

No way I see the Mets finishing higher than 4th next year unless the Nats implode big time with major multiple injuries since their farm is nowhere as good as the other two.  But then the injuries are more a Mets thing.

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14 pages of Mets talk?

 

Anyone want the cliffnotes?

 

They still blow.  

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20 hours ago, Sine_cera said:

 

Because a lot of Mets fans have that same "If we can keep our pitching staff and best hitters healthy then we can be contenders!" mindset. They'll say the exact same thing next season again. Meanwhile the Phillies and Braves are already ahead of schedule and getting younger and better….

this 100%

 

its why they HAVE to trade degrom

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6 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

this 100%

 

its why they HAVE to trade degrom

 

it doesnt seem like anyone is offering an elite prospect.
The white sox got an elite in Eloy Jimenez for Quintana and Dylan Cease was a good prospect.
the yankees got Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier for expiring contract relief studs.

DeGrom is worth more than any of those guys.

If Toronto was one SP away from being a contender, then we'd be talking Guerrero or Bichette plus

but no one who would be the favorite with the addition of an elite SP even has an elite prospect (except the Astros)

 

Hopefully the Mets arent going to trade DeGrom for Pat Zachry, Dan Norman, Steven Henderson and Doug Flynn

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tesla said:

 

it doesnt seem like anyone is offering an elite prospect.
The white sox got an elite in Eloy Jimenez for Quintana and Dylan Cease was a good prospect.
the yankees got Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier for expiring contract relief studs.

DeGrom is worth more than any of those guys.

If Toronto was one SP away from being a contender, then we'd be talking Guerrero or Bichette plus

but no one who would be the favorite with the addition of an elite SP even has an elite prospect (except the Astros)

 

Hopefully the Mets arent going to trade DeGrom for Pat Zachry, Dan Norman, Steven Henderson and Doug Flynn

this isnt bad logic as degrom is def better than Quintana...and has 2 years.  the quintana deal is looking bad for the cubs as of right now tho

 

the gleyber and clint frazier deals were because Cubs and Cleveland were desperate franchises.  miller also had 2 years left as well, so wasnt a rental.

 

problem with the mets tho, is they probably arent a gleyber or jiminez away.  they need like 4 or 5 prospects.  which is why i think degrom should go to the yankees, or he wont go anywhere.

Edited by jfazz23

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3 hours ago, KingJoffrey said:

People give up on every team that's down, but the Mets actually have some solid pieces.

 

DeGrom is an Ace.  They actually have a Bona fide Ace.  That's more than a lot of contending teams can say.  Who is Milwaukee's Ace?  Javy Guerra?  They have a good number 2 with Syndegaard.  I don't buy that it's impossible Syndegaard stays healthy for a full season.  Then they have Zach Wheeler.  If Wheeler could just get his head out of his arse and learn to pitch he could easily emerge into another elite starter.  Wheeler has excellent stuff. Steven Matz/Seth Lugo.  Fine for 4/5 starters,

 

They have a horror show for a Bullpen.  But how often have teams made a signing here and a call up there and greatly improve the bullpen from year to year?  

 

The offense is underrated.  There's a lot of walk machines in the lieup.  Nimmo, conforto,  Plawecki/Mesoraco and combine with Decent production from Flores and Cabrera.  They just have to do things like avoid signing Agon and Todd Frazier and other players who aren't going to get them anywhere.

 

Sure some more things need to break right.  They need a full healthy year from Cespedes (remember him?) and they need Conforto to be the player a lot of people thought he would be (who didn't take a flyer ?) and they need Wheeler to find his head.  They need to improve the bullpen.  But we aren't talking miracles.  

 

The Brewers have one of the best bullpens in the Majors, are the best defensive team in the Majors, have plenty of pop and speed in their lineup and are contending while their best pitcher (Jimmy Nelson) hasn't pitched a single inning this season.

 

There was another team that didn't have an ace pitcher but great defense, a great bullpen, lots of speed and still did really well. The Mets and their aces must remember playing against that team....

 

ddf087374a77f3869f0f30516c5aa840.gif

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Can someone tell me when's the last time the Mets got a prospect in return that panned out?

 

The trade that still stands out as the epitome of why Mess are a bad organization is the Kazmir for Victor Zambrano trade. This was a prospect for veteran trade, but it just highlights how amazingly bad Mess are at deals. 

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16 minutes ago, papasmurf said:

Can someone tell me when's the last time the Mets got a prospect in return that panned out?

 

The trade that still stands out as the epitome of why Mess are a bad organization is the Kazmir for Victor Zambrano trade. This was a prospect for veteran trade, but it just highlights how amazingly bad Mess are at deals. 

Noah Syndegaard

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