Fuzzy_Slippers

Jose Ramirez 2018 Outlook

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27 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

Top 3? Thats bold unlikely he goes that high.

I don’t think you’re paying attention (don’t worry, most aren’t). 

From June 19 last year through today, JRam is hitting:

.302, 115 runs, 40 HR, 99 RBI, 20 SB

And he’s just 26. 

 

Who are you taking over him?

 

EDIT: Saw you mentioned a few. Freeman and Blackmon are laughable. 

Edited by Backdoor Slider
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5 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

 

Max has been ranked top 5 for years doubt he gets picked before him and possibly Kluber. Other hitters to make a case for are Altuve Freeman Jd Martinez Arenado and Blackmon.

 

I'd love if my opponents took Blackmon before JM lmao.

 

And typically pitchers go later than hitters depending on league settings so a pitcher in top 5 isn't common.

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13 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

I don’t think you’re paying attention (don’t worry, most aren’t). 

From June 19 last year through today, JRam is hitting:

.302, 115 runs, 40 HR, 99 RBI, 20 SB

And he’s just 26. 

 

Who are you taking over him?

 

EDIT: Saw you mentioned a few. Freeman and Blackmon are laughable. 

Id easily take Max Kluber Altuve over him even for what its worth Blackmon was ranked 3rd overall last year to Ramirez 13th so not sure what you are laughing about Freeman before his injury was doing better also. Also to say pitchers dont get drafted in the top 5 is just not true and all opinion plenty of people value elite pitching as they should not to mention Severino who seems to be reaching that elite territory and is only 24....

Edited by sjs1890

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15 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

Id easily take Max Kluber Altuve over him even for what its worth Blackmon was ranked 3rd overall last year to Ramirez 13th so not sure what you are laughing about Freeman before his injury was doing better also. Also to say pitchers dont get drafted in the top 5 is just not true and all opinion plenty of people value elite pitching as they should not to mention Severino who seems to be reaching that elite territory and is only 24....

How old is Blackmon? How is he doing this year? Is he running as much as he used to? 

Im not sure what mentioning last season’s rankings (check the first two pages of Blackmon thread. I was the lone voice arguing against him at 3 THIS season) has to do with how people will be ranked next season. 

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1 hour ago, Backdoor Slider said:

I don’t think you’re paying attention (don’t worry, most aren’t). 

From June 19 last year through today, JRam is hitting:

.302, 115 runs, 40 HR, 99 RBI, 20 SB

And he’s just 26. 

 

Who are you taking over him?

 

EDIT: Saw you mentioned a few. Freeman and Blackmon are laughable. 

He is now arguably the top 3B in the league, especially in category play with SB.  Arenado maybe is 1A but I give JoRam the slight nod.  Plus I love his attitude and never gives away a pitch or AB.

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I mean the guy has 43 BB to only 38 Ks.  

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27 minutes ago, ToO_BaD said:

I mean the guy has 43 BB to only 38 Ks.  

Insane. Clear top 3 pick in H2H point leagues. 

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28 minutes ago, ToO_BaD said:

I mean the guy has 43 BB to only 38 Ks.  

 

One of the reasons I don't think we are at his career year yet.  He is only going to get better.  I would guess steals are only thing that are at their max

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Just now, The Waker said:

 

One of the reasons I don't think we are at his career year yet.  He is only going to get better.  I would guess steals are only thing that are at their max

 

Well and look at where we are with his numbers after that abysmal start at the plate.  His lack of Ks were a huge reason for optimism during that period.

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His BABIP is actually low.  His average should be higher. He will regress a touch in HR but that would still mean a 35HR 20SB guy batting over .300 with huge counting stats.  I understand some wanting to take Mookie and a few others over him, but if I am in a mid-season draft I might have to take him #2 at this point.

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3 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

How old is Blackmon? How is he doing this year? Is he running as much as he used to? 

Im not sure what mentioning last season’s rankings (check the first two pages of Blackmon thread. I was the lone voice arguing against him at 3 THIS season) has to do with how people will be ranked next season. 

Blackmon wasnt even the one I was lobbying for really mainly just Max Kluber and Altuve. I just feel elite pitching stats are extremely rare to come by while theres a lot of bats out there providing stats across the board. I get the man crush on J Ram as he wasnt pre ranked 26th but is he worth more than Max or Kluber cmon now.

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Whether you take Ramirez 3rd, 5th, or 10th (you get the idea), he is having one hell of a season and is likely deserving of wherever you take him.  Yes, I would likely still take Trout and maybe Betts over him (maybe), but I don't think there's any reason to criticize putting Jose Ramirez right with all of the elite guys mentioned.  I also don't think anyone is really out of line if they say they would take Ramirez over guys like Altuve, the top pitchers, and definitely Blackmon.

 

At least for this season, it clearly looks like you aren't getting the 24 HR version of Altuve people got the last two seasons, so honestly Ramirez is indeed better than him. There's also no reason to think he will return to that 24 HR level either.  Altuve is obviously still extremely valuable even if he only hits 12-15 HRs, but he's also not running as much either.  Also, as good as Blackmon was (and he's still valuable obviously even in a down year), what version of Blackmon will we get from now on?  While he's gotten better since the season started, getting back to the heights of being a batting title contender look unlikely (at least this season).  If he was going on a long massive hot streak, then maybe, but he hasn't (and his average has actually dropped a bit again).  He hardly runs anymore, and the only thing that has actually improved this season is his walk rate.

 

So, after all that, I once again have no problem with Jose Ramirez being put right with the top picks.  He's earned it, and like others have said, he's only 26.  Just sit back and enjoy the ride.  Today won't be his last stat stuffing game.

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39 minutes ago, KilloWertz said:

I also don't think anyone is really out of line if they say they would take Ramirez over guys like Altuve, the top pitchers, and definitely Blackmon.

 

While I agree he is tremendous value being pre ranked 26th on Yahoo id just like to see him post a top 2-3 season first before being mentioned with the likes of Trout, Betts(currently 4th, missed 2 weeks tho) Max/Kluber(ranked in the top 5 seemingly every year, and these guys never get mentioned in the top 3), Altuve and Blackmon have both done it before while JRam and his career start so far sitting at 9th last year 13th still extremely good obviously.

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29 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

While I agree he is tremendous value being pre ranked 26th on Yahoo id just like to see him post a top 2-3 season first before being mentioned with the likes of Trout, Betts(currently 4th, missed 2 weeks tho) Max/Kluber(ranked in the top 5 seemingly every year, and these guys never get mentioned in the top 3), Altuve and Blackmon have both done it before while JRam and his career start so far sitting at 9th last year 13th still extremely good obviously.

 

Pitchers generally get drafted lower then their PR would suggest they should for a variety of reasons.  I don't see any SP going top 5 ADP next year.  So when it comes to draft position it's more pertinent to talk about comparable hitters.

Edited by The Waker

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Trout, Betts and JoRam should be the top 3 picks next year in any dynasty league.  Lindor probavly deserves to go 4th but 2-4 are fairly interchangeable. 

 

Ramirez absolutely has passed up these 30+yo SP and even Altuve.  

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2 hours ago, STLSU said:

Trout, Betts and JoRam should be the top 3 picks next year in any dynasty league.  Lindor probavly deserves to go 4th but 2-4 are fairly interchangeable. 

 

Ramirez absolutely has passed up these 30+yo SP and even Altuve.  

How has Ramirez absolutely passed Max and Kluber in re draft leagues lol? He has to be ranked ahead of them first... While Altuve has a big game and his average up to 347 wowzers.

Edited by sjs1890

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6 hours ago, sjs1890 said:

How has Ramirez absolutely passed Max and Kluber in re draft leagues lol? He has to be ranked ahead of them first... While Altuve has a big game and his average up to 347 wowzers.

 

Because the pitchers are getting older and pitchers are just riskier in general. Like I said above, draft position isn't purely about performance.  There's a reason Kershaw rarely went top 2.  Scherzer and Kluber are getting to the age where drafting them in top 5 isn't worth risk. 

 

Altuve's steals will keep going down and it's doubtful he ever hits 24 homers again.  He's passing his prime couple of years, JoRam is just entering it.

 

 

Edited by The Waker
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I'm thinking Machado rounds out my top 5 dynasty picks next year.  Trout then 2-5 are arguably interchangeable (Betts, Ramirez, Machado, Lindor).

Edited by STLSU
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9 hours ago, sjs1890 said:

How has Ramirez absolutely passed Max and Kluber in re draft leagues lol? He has to be ranked ahead of them first... While Altuve has a big game and his average up to 347 wowzers.

 

He clearly mentioned dynasty leagues in his post....

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10 hours ago, sjs1890 said:

How has Ramirez absolutely passed Max and Kluber in re draft leagues lol? He has to be ranked ahead of them first... While Altuve has a big game and his average up to 347 wowzers.

 

It's interesting that you're the only one arguing for this with multiple people disagreeing. I'd say the people on here are (generally) more than competent when it comes to fantasy baseball. 

It's not a real difficult concept : How often are arms drafted in the top 10? Not very. Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber all make a strong argument to be drafted as such, but you generally only have 1-2 owners in any league of 12 teams who are willing to pull the trigger on that. 

 

If JoRam is one of the top 3 hitters, then he's a top 3 overall draft pick (generally). At this point, there's no way you don't take him over Arenado, Altuve, Trea, Stanton, Blackmon, Harper, Freeman. Some due to bad play, some due to positional eligibility (I'll take a 2B/3B JoRam over a 1B Freeman all day, and I absolutely love Freeman). I think this stands in ROS rankings and dynasty formats. 

 

In Jose Ramirez's last 162 games he's hit .316 with 42 HR, 61 2B, 121 R, 103 RBI, 76 BB, 74 K, 21 SB. He's slugged .630 in that span with  an OPS of 1.021. He has a wRC+ of 168

 

In Nolan Areando's last 162 games he's hit .318 with 38 HR, 39 2B, 106 R, 130 RBI, 80 BB, 113 K, 3 SB. He's slugged .591 in that span with an OPS of .985. He has a wRC+ of 141.

 

In Mike Trout's last 162 games he's hit .309 with 49 HR, 32 2B, 134 R, 102 RBI, 146 BB, 127 K, 30 SB. He's slugged .641 in that span with an OPS for 1.096. He has a wRC+ of 192. 

 

What really is separating Trout from JoRam is all the walks. That pushes up the OBP/OPS/R, but otherwise Ramirez is as good when the ball is getting put into play. 

 

Jorams wRC+ is closer to Trouts than it is to Arenados. That alone tells you how great he's been.

 

JoRam is a top 3 pick next year if he keeps it up. Nothing suggests he won't. It's been an extremely long track record of great play. The in depth metrics love the guy. While I can see owners sleeping on him (he just doesn't get hyped like he should) he's gonna be an absolute bargain outside of the top 5. 

 

The problem with drafting pitchers so highly is you're spending a very valuable pick on a position that is at a high risk for injury. After the top 5-6 or so bats, I don't mind the idea of taking an arm, but no way you do it over a guy like Ramirez, Nado, Trout, Betts. 

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1 hour ago, sngehl01 said:

 

It's interesting that you're the only one arguing for this with multiple people disagreeing. I'd say the people on here are (generally) more than competent when it comes to fantasy baseball. 

It's not a real difficult concept : How often are arms drafted in the top 10? Not very. Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber all make a strong argument to be drafted as such, but you generally only have 1-2 owners in any league of 12 teams who are willing to pull the trigger on that. 

 

If JoRam is one of the top 3 hitters, then he's a top 3 overall draft pick (generally). At this point, there's no way you don't take him over Arenado, Altuve, Trea, Stanton, Blackmon, Harper, Freeman. Some due to bad play, some due to positional eligibility (I'll take a 2B/3B JoRam over a 1B Freeman all day, and I absolutely love Freeman). I think this stands in ROS rankings and dynasty formats. 

 

In Jose Ramirez's last 162 games he's hit .316 with 42 HR, 61 2B, 121 R, 103 RBI, 76 BB, 74 K, 21 SB. He's slugged .630 in that span with  an OPS of 1.021. He has a wRC+ of 168

 

In Nolan Areando's last 162 games he's hit .318 with 38 HR, 39 2B, 106 R, 130 RBI, 80 BB, 113 K, 3 SB. He's slugged .591 in that span with an OPS of .985. He has a wRC+ of 141.

 

In Mike Trout's last 162 games he's hit .309 with 49 HR, 32 2B, 134 R, 102 RBI, 146 BB, 127 K, 30 SB. He's slugged .641 in that span with an OPS for 1.096. He has a wRC+ of 192. 

 

What really is separating Trout from JoRam is all the walks. That pushes up the OBP/OPS/R, but otherwise Ramirez is as good when the ball is getting put into play. 

 

Jorams wRC+ is closer to Trouts than it is to Arenados. That alone tells you how great he's been.

 

JoRam is a top 3 pick next year if he keeps it up. Nothing suggests he won't. It's been an extremely long track record of great play. The in depth metrics love the guy. While I can see owners sleeping on him (he just doesn't get hyped like he should) he's gonna be an absolute bargain outside of the top 5. 

 

The problem with drafting pitchers so highly is you're spending a very valuable pick on a position that is at a high risk for injury. After the top 5-6 or so bats, I don't mind the idea of taking an arm, but no way you do it over a guy like Ramirez, Nado, Trout, Betts. 

Drafting pitchers highly like max and kluber is what wins you leagues to say people don't draft pitchers in the top 10 is patently false. We are not even in July yet and people are talking about next year's rankings lol??? Let the guy do it one year before jumping the gun one prolonged slump could change a lot it's still june.... If I was doing a re draft today I would go Trout Betts Max Kluber and for what is worth I'd still take Altuve over Jram and I'd be willing to wager Altuve beats Ramirez in 4 cats out of 5. To say people don't value pitching or don't draft them in the top 10 is annoying. 

Edited by sjs1890

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8 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

Drafting pitchers highly like max and kluber is what wins you leagues to say people don't draft pitchers in the top 10 is patently false. We are not even in July yet and people are talking about next year's rankings lol??? Let the guy do it one year before jumping the gun one prolonged slump could change a lot it's still june.... If I was doing a re draft today I would go Trout Betts Max Kluber and for what is worth I'd still take Altuve over Jram and I'd be willing to wager Altuve beats Ramirez in 4 cats out of 5. To say people don't value pitching or don't draft them in the top 10 is annoying. 

“Let the guy do it for one year.”

I said earlier that you’re just not paying attention, and this proves it. 

 

His age 23 season he hit .312 with 11 HR & 22 SB.

Last season, age 24, .318 with 29 HR & 17 SB. 

 

He’s been doing this now for seasons, at a young age. Seems everyone here but you knows this. 

 

I think the conversation with sjs here can end. He’s just heard of JRam, thinks he came out of nowhere, and isn’t ready to crown him a star just yet. ??

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19 hours ago, sjs1890 said:

Drafting pitchers highly like max and kluber is what wins you leagues to say people don't draft pitchers in the top 10 is patently false. We are not even in July yet and people are talking about next year's rankings lol??? Let the guy do it one year before jumping the gun one prolonged slump could change a lot it's still june.... If I was doing a re draft today I would go Trout Betts Max Kluber and for what is worth I'd still take Altuve over Jram and I'd be willing to wager Altuve beats Ramirez in 4 cats out of 5. To say people don't value pitching or don't draft them in the top 10 is annoying. 

 

Ok, what you, one person, would do is completely different than how the consensus of drafts will go. 

 

They guy has done it for one year and then some. He had a 107/29/83/17/.318 line last year. He's been even better this year, but even if he regresses (which I don't think he will) towards what he did last season we're still talking about a 110/30+/100/20/.300 guy. 

 

You cliam Max and Kluber are how you win leagues. You say it's "annoying" when people don't value pitching in the top 10, or draft them as such. 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/2018-too-early-mock-drafts-final-adp/ -> 2018 mock draft by 4 industry experts. 4 different drafts by the same 4 guys. Only 1 pitcher was drafted in the top 10 in any 4 of the drafts (Kershaw) and he was drafted 4th, 8th, then 11th, and 11th. Of the 4 drafts, only two had a pitcher go in the first 10 picks. It was the same 1 pitcher (the now shelved Kershaw) and he went 4th and 8th. You claim that drafting guys like Kluber and Scherzer win leagues. However, drafting guys like Kershaw and Syndergaard do not. ESPN had 1 pitcher in their top 10 of ADP, Kershaw, at 6th overall. Scherzer came in at 11th.

Yahoo had 2 pitchers in their top 10 ADP. Kershaw and Scherzer, at 4 and 9. If it was that much of a slam dunk 1) they'd go sooner and 2) the league winner would be decided in all these leagues already. 

It may be your preference to draft that way, but that's the exception, not the norm. There are many ways to skin a cat. My point is JoRam has shown more than enough to be drafted as a top 3-5 hitter, easily. Whether you value a top 3-5 hitter over any pitcher is another story entirely. 

Edited by sngehl01
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32 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

 

Ok, what you, one person, would do is completely different than how the consensus of drafts will go. 

 

They guy has done it for one year and then some. He had a 107/29/83/17/.318 line last year. He's been even better this year, but even if he regresses (which I don't think he will) towards what he did last season we're still talking about a 110/30+/100/20/.300 guy. 

 

You cliam Max and Kluber are how you win leagues. You say it's "annoying" when people don't value pitching in the top 10, or draft them as such. 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/2018-too-early-mock-drafts-final-adp/ -> 2018 mock draft by 4 industry experts. 4 different drafts by the same 4 guys. Only 1 pitcher was drafted in the top 10 in any 4 of the drafts (Kershaw) and he was drafted 4th, 8th, then 11th, and 11th. Of the 4 drafts, only two had a pitcher go in the first 10 picks. It was the same 1 pitcher (the now shelved Kershaw) and he went 4th and 8th. You claim that drafting guys like Kluber and Scherzer win leagues. However, drafting guys like Kershaw and Syndergaard do not. ESPN had 1 pitcher in their top 10 of ADP, Kershaw, at 6th overall. Scherzer came in at 11th.

Yahoo had 2 pitchers in their top 10 ADP. Kershaw and Scherzer, at 4 and 9. If it was that much of a slam dunk 1) they'd go sooner and 2) the league winner would be decided in all these leagues already. 

It may be your preference to draft that way, but that's the exception, not the norm. There are many ways to skin a cat. My point is JoRam has shown more than enough to be drafted as a top 3-5 hitter, easily. Whether you value a top 3-5 hitter over any pitcher is another story entirely. 

I owned him last year. Talking about ADP, and thinking about next year I think I would take him at the back end of the first round next year. His plate discipline is great and he's a five cat stud. I'd probably prefer his value over upside picks like Harper Stanton etc. Because even though those guys are great when they're on, Jose is just rock solid. 

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14 minutes ago, ktierne3 said:

I owned him last year. Talking about ADP, and thinking about next year I think I would take him at the back end of the first round next year. His plate discipline is great and he's a five cat stud. I'd probably prefer his value over upside picks like Harper Stanton etc. Because even though those guys are great when they're on, Jose is just rock solid. 

 

You will not get him at the back end of the first round

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