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Alex Collins 2018 Outlook

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6 minutes ago, seanismorris said:

I don’t buy the idea Collins didn’t get more work because they decided to sit their starters.  Normally, if you believe in your RB you get him back out there and use him to run out the clock.  I think Collins is in the dog house for the fumble, but will get at least 1 more chance to prove himself.

 

I think Collins is the most talented runner, but the coaches aren’t fully bought in to a guy they didn’t draft.  Collins is worth cuffing if he was your 1 or 2 RB, which he is for most people.

 

By the way, 1.9 YPC against the 29th ranked rushing defense (of 2017) leaves a lot to be desired.

 

The best thing about Collins is the lack of a stick mover as competition.  But, one more fumble and the risk/reward of playing Collins might not be favorable, resulting in significantly less playing time.

Yeah sorry man whether you want to buy it or not it’s the truth. He was benched a couple series because of the fumble then was back in. Then was lifted with the rest of the prominent starters when it was 40-0. Do you understand how big of a deficit 40 points is? 

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4 minutes ago, taobball said:

Even when Lamar Jackson is the QB? 

 

You're comparing it to a normal situation. There' snothing normal about being up 40-0 in the NFL. I don't have a single inch of doubt in my mind why he was benched. When you have a player you think is better in a 40 Point game, you don't get that player HURT. 

 

The usage, if anything, suggests that Baltimore still views Collins more as a piece they want to preserve and remain healthy then one they are growing wary of. 

 

EDIT: ANd I mean what better way of punishing the starting RB than making him take a ton of carries in a meaningless game and prove he can hold onto the football? That's the way I would've "punished" him and most rational coaches would've. I don't see him being out of the game in a blow out as a negative. I just fundamentally can't see that viewpoint at all. 

There is no other viewpoint to see. It’s a fact that he played in his normal role to start the second half after the fumble. And it’s a fact that he was lifted at the same time as Flacco once the score got to 40-0. Arguing otherwise is really foolish.

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2 minutes ago, taobball said:

Even when Lamar Jackson is the QB? 

 

You're comparing it to a normal situation. There' snothing normal about being up 40-0 in the NFL. I don't have a single inch of doubt in my mind why he was benched. When you have a player you think is better in a 40 Point game, you don't get that player HURT. 

 

The usage, if anything, suggests that Baltimore still views Collins more as a piece they want to preserve and remain healthy then one they are growing wary of. 

 

EDIT: ANd I mean what better way of punishing the starting RB than making him take a ton of carries in a meaningless game and prove he can hold onto the football? That's the way I would've "punished" him and most rational coaches would've. I don't see him being out of the game in a blow out as a negative. I just fundamentally can't see that viewpoint at all. 

We’ll see, the team hasn’t offered their thoughts.  I’m just saying cuff him because Collins risk has skyrocketed.

 

I think the best practice is having Collins out there running out the clock.  So, you don’t you risk extending the game and increase the odds of injury for everyone.

 

Does pulling your QB make sense? Absolutely.  I’d probably pull most playmakers, with the exception of the RB.  You rarely see workhorse RBs get pulled.  But if you want to kick the tires on the other guys maybe you do...

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Just now, Bmore86 said:

There is no other viewpoint to see. It’s a fact that he played in his normal role to start the second half after the fumble. And it’s a fact that he was lifted at the same time as Flacco once the score got to 40-0. Arguing otherwise is really foolish.

 

And it's not just that to me, it's the fact that the benching should be viewed as a punishment. I'm not saying these dudes don't love the game, or that Flacco doesn't love the game, but don't you think, up 40 points, when Harbaugh said you were done he was like "sweet, time to relax until Week 2." I mean competitors pine to play in the NFL... but not necessarily when they're drubbing the bills by 40 points. 

 

It just makes way more sense to me that, if the idea was to PUNISH Collins for fumbling, that it would make FAR more sense to play him MORE often in the second half with Lamar Jackson and the back-ups. It wouldn't make sense to bench him. What Starting RB wants to be on the field with the back-ups in a 40 point game? 

 

In a close game, being benched is a punishment... but in a blowout? All starters got benched. It's that simple. 

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Just now, seanismorris said:

We’ll see, the team hasn’t offered their thoughts.  I’m just saying cuff him because Collins risk has skyrocketed.

 

I think the best practice is having Collins out there running out the clock.  So, you don’t you risk extending the game and increase the odds of injury for everyone.

 

Does pulling your QB make sense? Absolutely.  I’d probably pull most playmakers, with the exception of the RB.  You rarely see workhorse RBs get pulled.  But if you want to kick the tires on the other guys maybe you do...

 

There is not a single starting RB, workhorse or otherwise, who is not being pulled in a 40 point game. Lev is being pulled. Zeke is being pulled. DJ is being pulled. Everyone worth a s--- is being pulled. 

 

Again, I just think you're comparing most situations with a 40-0 game like they're very similar. You rarely bench ALL the starters in an NFL game. Especailly with 25 game minutes left. This game was a massive anomaly, and as I pointed out above I truly do believe that if the CS wanted to "punish" Collins it makes far more sense to force him to PLAY with the Back-Ups rather than SIT with the Starters. That doesn't make sense to me. If I were Collins, I wouldn't have even WANTED to go back into that game. Competitors don't compete to be up 50 points. 

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Todd Gurley was pulled halfway through the 3rd last year when the Rams banged Seattle. Score at the time he left? His td had just put the Rams up 40-0.

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Yeah but the Ravens are playing on Thursday so there's even more reason to rest him. I'm not too worried.

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There are reasons why harbaugh gave Dixon touches and I'm not buying the save Alex for Thursday excuse but due to injury we may never see this backfield competition play out.

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8 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

There are reasons why harbaugh gave Dixon touches and I'm not buying the save Alex for Thursday excuse but due to injury we may never see this backfield competition play out.

 

Yes, because he is a back-up, and the rest of the back-ups were in. 

 

"save Alex for Thursday..." it's not about one game it's about the season. You don't play starters up 40-0, so Alex Collins sat, because he is the clear-cut Starter. It is as black-and-white as it gets. 

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3 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Yes, because he is a back-up, and the rest of the back-ups were in. 

 

"save Alex for Thursday..." it's not about one game it's about the season. You don't play starters up 40-0, so Alex Collins sat, because he is the clear-cut Starter. It is as black-and-white as it gets. 

 

 

Naah, my view was if healthy this was going to be a rbbc but we will probably never know with Dixon injured again

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4 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Naah, my view was if healthy this was going to be a rbbc but we will probably never know with Dixon injured again

 

Okay, so how do you explain Dixon getting 0 Snaps before it being 40-0 and Collins getting 0 Snaps after it being 40-0? 

 

You were wrong, regardless of the injury. And Dixon wouldn't get signfiicant work on Thursday, even if he was healthy. 

 

If Harbaugh's goal was to see Dixon play, then again, how do you explain a whole ZERO snaps prior to the game being out of hand? 

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6 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Naah, my view was if healthy this was going to be a rbbc but we will probably never know with Dixon injured again

 

1 minute ago, taobball said:

 

Okay, so how do you explain Dixon getting 0 Snaps before it being 40-0 and Collins getting 0 Snaps after it being 40-0? 

 

You were wrong, regardless of the injury. And Dixon wouldn't get signfiicant work on Thursday, even if he was healthy. 

 

If Harbaugh's goal was to see Dixon play, then again, how do you explain a whole ZERO snaps prior to the game being out of hand? 

 

Also if Dixon were going to be so relevant, why did Buck Allen take over after the Fumble, and not Dixon until Lamar Jackson came in the game? 

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13 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Yes, because he is a back-up, and the rest of the back-ups were in. 

 

"save Alex for Thursday..." it's not about one game it's about the season. You don't play starters up 40-0, so Alex Collins sat, because he is the clear-cut Starter. It is as black-and-white as it gets. 

 

I know you've been fighting the good fight, and beating the Collins drum pretty hard (I believe as well) but there really isn't getting through to his detractors this early. 

 

Honestly the reasons why people shouldn't be worried about Collins at the moment far outweighs the negatives, to me it's pretty obvious. I guess believers will be believers and doubters will be doubters until the truth comes out.

 

Dixon couldn't force a time share in camp or in preseason (when Collins sat the 4th game with the rest of the starters to boot), but somehow he was going to force one because he played well with the 2nd stringers during a 40-0 win after Collins was pulled with the rest of the starters. Sounds accurate :rolleyes: I admit it's a non-zero chance that this could be the case, but putting so much weight on it after a little analysis of the situation just baffles me. 

Edited by yahyahtrick
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8 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Okay, so how do you explain Dixon getting 0 Snaps before it being 40-0 and Collins getting 0 Snaps after it being 40-0? 

 

You were wrong, regardless of the injury. And Dixon wouldn't get signfiicant work on Thursday, even if he was healthy. 

 

If Harbaugh's goal was to see Dixon play, then again, how do you explain a whole ZERO snaps prior to the game being out of hand? 

 

You're wasting your time with anyone who believes Dixon is going to unseat Collins or take touches away from Collins.

 

Collins is THE GUY in Baltimore people. If he wasn't Harbaugh would have brought in a free agent in the offseason, not opt for Dixon or Allen over Collins. Collins being pulled was a message to hang onto the damn ball. Coaches already know how much better of a runner and goal line back he is versus the other options on the team. He just has to get better at holding on to the football.

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1 minute ago, CamNewton said:

 

You're wasting your time with anyone who believes Dixon is going to unseat Collins or take touches away from Collins.

 

Collins is THE GUY in Baltimore people. If he wasn't Harbaugh would have brought in a free agent in the offseason, not opt for Dixon or Allen over Collins. Collins being pulled was a message to hang onto the damn ball. Coaches already know how much better of a runner and goal line back he is versus the other options on the team. He just has to get better at holding on to the football.

 

Well the main point for me is he came back after the fumble. They didn't pull him for Dixon after the fumble.

 

They pulled Collins for Allen to punish him for a time. Then after a couple drives, they reinstalled Collins into the offense. But to this point, Dixon still had not played a snap. It wasn't until after the 40 that he went to the bench for good. 

 

But yeah, I mean I'm not trying to just outright argue with people. I'm just looking around the forums and how people have this Kenneth Dixon take, really dating back a year, is baffling to me. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Okay, so how do you explain Dixon getting 0 Snaps before it being 40-0 and Collins getting 0 Snaps after it being 40-0? 

 

You were wrong, regardless of the injury. And Dixon wouldn't get signfiicant work on Thursday, even if he was healthy. 

 

If Harbaugh's goal was to see Dixon play, then again, how do you explain a whole ZERO snaps prior to the game being out of hand? 

 

 

yeah see that's the interesting thing about the NFL you don't know until you know, so to speak  just the other day the 3rd guy on Denvers depth chart had more touches than the starter.  My view was the ravens were going to use a rbbc over the course of the season but with the injury that may never happen, i don't need to explain Dixosn preseason usage but the fact is he did get touches in game 1 and coaches look at performance and they will always evaluate players performance, unlike you they don;t dismiss it so it was probable Dixon was earning his share of a rbbc. 

So I get it that you want to be 'right' about your view but relax dude you are way too invested in your opinions as if you are actually on the coaching staff. :lol:

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3 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Well the main point for me is he came back after the fumble. They didn't pull him for Dixon after the fumble.

 

They pulled Collins for Allen to punish him for a time. Then after a couple drives, they reinstalled Collins into the offense. But to this point, Dixon still had not played a snap. It wasn't until after the 40 that he went to the bench for good. 

 

But yeah, I mean I'm not trying to just outright argue with people. I'm just looking around the forums and how people have this Kenneth Dixon take, really dating back a year, is baffling to me. 

 

Agreed on all points. Again, I think Collins is the cheapest buy-low player right now versus what his value will actually be worth this season.

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16 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

 

Also if Dixon were going to be so relevant, why did Buck Allen take over after the Fumble, and not Dixon until Lamar Jackson came in the game? 

 

 

Oh yeah and as someone who has owned dixon-collins-buck-west-rice-woodhead. i have seen Dixon after injury force a timeshare end of the season from west, so it's not as far fetched as you think, Harbaugh could be pretty fluid when he needs to be.

 

 

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1 minute ago, dashoe said:

but the fact is he did get touches in game 1 and coaches look at performance and they will always evaluate players performance, unlike you they don;t dismiss it so it was probable Dixon was earning his share of a rbbc. 

So I get it that you want to be 'right' about your view but relax dude you are way too invested in your opinions as if you are actually on the coaching staff. :lol:

 

I'm not dismissing it. I'm just not considering what amounts to a preseason game as being anything more than a preseason game, that's all. Dixon's performance in a game that he was down 40-0 isn't entirely irrelevant, but Collins was the clear Bellcow from about the 2017 bye through all of camp. That's not going to change based on how Dixon performs against scrubs. 

 

Tbh, and I get its your opinion too so I mean no offense by it, but I have just never seen so much... borderline fetishishizing of a back that Kenneth Dixon gets. He has never been healthy, he has played in probably like 7 of 33 games in his career. He's been suspended. He doesn't seem to have any faith or confidence from the CS, as displayed by them not using him at all against the Bills until it was a 40 Point game. 

 

I just fundamentally don't see why people think Dixon is going to be a thing. There's not really a sense that I get from anyone in or around Baltimore that Dixon is someone they want to get more involved. Alex Collins is a 24 YO RB who, when given a bellcow workload at the end of last season, helped the Ravens finish 5-2 with two narrow divisional losses. Kenneth Dixon's best skill is getting hurt. I'd be shocked at this point of his career if he ever amounted to anything in this league. 

 

And listen, I'm not fired up. I just see a statement that I think is wrong, and it does me no real loss to comment on it. People think you get fired up or "Care deeply" if you respond in detail. I'm not trying to break people's balls or going hard as s--- in the paint. I'm just bored at work and can type well over 100 WPM. I'm not deeply invested in this particular argument, this is just how I kill time. 

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2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Oh yeah and as someone who has owned dixon-collins-buck-west-rice-woodhead. i have seen Dixon after injury force a timeshare end of the season from west, so it's not as far fetched as you think, Harbaugh could be pretty fluid when he needs to be.

 

 

 

Ultimately all these come down to Collins. I don't think he's in the same stratosphere as T West, and I don't think the Ravens do either. He's a 24 year old that they think can be their present and future bellcow IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Oh yeah and as someone who has owned dixon-collins-buck-west-rice-woodhead. i have seen Dixon after injury force a timeshare end of the season from west, so it's not as far fetched as you think, Harbaugh could be pretty fluid when he needs to be.

 

 

 

and forsett i owned him too when he had an administrative  cut, resigned and then cut again

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