The 7th Beatles

Odell Beckham Jr. 2018 Outlook

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5 hours ago, this guy right here said:

He has issues for sure but the issue is the o-line. You can't throw down field when the d-line is in his face when the ball is snapped. The recievers aren't even a yard past scrimmage when he has to get rid of the ball. He would be an average QB if they could pass block.

No Eli is a worse issue than the O'line. Eli literally never knows wear to be in the pocket and falls like a bag of bricks if a defender touches him with a finger, or his dumbass bumps into his own linemen because of his provable 0 pocket presence.

Edited by koreaonaboat
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4 minutes ago, koreaonaboat said:

No Eli is a worse issue than the O'line. Eli literally never knows wear to be in the pocket and falls like a bag of bricks if a defender touches him with a finger, or his dumbass bumps into his own linemen because of his provable 0 pocket presence.

He is the definition of a pocket passer, similar to Brady. Not known for having any sort of movement at all. 

 

A bad O line can easily make any QB look like trash and, unless you're extremely mobile like Wilson, you are going to have a terrible time. 

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5 minutes ago, koreaonaboat said:

No Eli is a worse issue than the O'line. Eli literally never knows wear to be in the pocket and falls like a bag of bricks if a defender touches him with a finger, or his dumbass bumps into his own linemen because of his provable 0 pocket presence.

 

It's a bad combination of bad o-line work and a completely immobile QB that would rather curl up into a ball than get air it out and take a big hit.  This is what happens when you have incompetent management like the Giants. 

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Eli is a dumpster fire, but does anyone else notice that Beckham doesn't even try using two hands to catch a ball anymore?  He used to catch everything in sight with two hands as a rook, was a beast.  As soon as he caught that crazy one handed ball over his head it's like his diva-mode was activated.  Now he cares more about looking cool, money, and his brand than being a good football player and teammate.

 

Who was the last "Franchise" WR to win a superbowl?  Jerry Rice?  His contract is a massive mistake the GMEN need to get out of.

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4 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

He is the definition of a pocket passer, similar to Brady. Not known for having any sort of movement at all. 

 

A bad O line can easily make any QB look like trash and, unless you're extremely mobile like Wilson, you are going to have a terrible time. 

 

Exactly......exactly!

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1 minute ago, The_Truth_Returns said:

Eli is a dumpster fire, but does anyone else notice that Beckham doesn't even try using two hands to catch a ball anymore?  He used to catch everything in sight with two hands as a rook, was a beast.  As soon as he caught that crazy one handed ball over his head it's like his diva-mode was activated.  Now he cares more about looking cool, money, and his brand than being a good football player and teammate.

 

Who was the last "Franchise" WR to win a superbowl?  Jerry Rice?  His contract is a massive mistake the GMEN need to get out of.

 

Technically, they have a "franchise" RB AND a "franchise" WR

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2 hours ago, chud12 said:

 

I mean seriously lol??? The offense is putrid and Eli is putrid anyone would be frustrated with how this isshh show looks. OBJ's best attribute is going deep and they don't even attempt it and 2 see all those 3 and outs do you blame him?? Yea he shouldn't be doing it in the public eye but damn near every great player would be doing it behind the scenes. It's not like OBJ is doing this and they're still winning, the team is 1-5 and I respectfully disagree with most of your take here.

No, not everyone would be frustrated. Stand up guys like Fitz exist that understand things can't always go their way. There is a huge difference between bringing issues up with the team and bashing them in public as well as acting like an immature child. 

Edited by Gohawks
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12 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Technically, they have a "franchise" RB AND a "franchise" WR

They've also convinced themselves that they have a "franchise" QB. I mean damn, this offense should be dropping 40+ a game.

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27 minutes ago, wideopen21 said:

 

It's a bad combination of bad o-line work and a completely immobile QB that would rather curl up into a ball than get air it out and take a big hit.  This is what happens when you have incompetent management like the Giants. 

 

Rivers is completely immobile and has performed way better behind far worse offensive lines.  Eli just sucks.

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3 minutes ago, kdko said:

Rivers is completely immobile and has performed way better behind far worse offensive lines.  Eli just sucks.

Rivers is one of the most underrated players of all-time. This is the Odell thread. We're getting way off-topic.

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Odell's night wouldn't have been terrible if that TD target had been thrown just a little bit more to the corner. He's getting the targets, but like everyone says Eli's immobility + weak pass blocking doesn't give time for the plays to develop. Holding Odell for these weaker defenses coming up. I think his value can only go up. 

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What is known about Lauletta? Was he decent in college? If the offense doesn't get moving in the next couple of games I could see an Eli benching. 

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1 hour ago, miasma16 said:

Rivers is one of the most underrated players of all-time. This is the Odell thread. We're getting way off-topic.

 

I wasn't trying to derail it, but I think the 'being immobile' as an excuse is rather weak.  There are several immobile QB's who can get it done behind a bad line.  I think OBJ's woes are tied solely to Eli alone.  Barkley is doing well behind this line.

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4 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

I wasn't trying to derail it, but I think the 'being immobile' as an excuse is rather weak.  There are several immobile QB's who can get it done behind a bad line.  I think OBJ's woes are tied solely to Eli alone.  Barkley is doing well behind this line.

 

I am probably one of the few that think that it's the same Eli and not much has changed except he still is not getting the time he needs to execute. He has never been mobile or very accurate but when he has time and establishes a rhythm he will eventually get it done.

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It’s not him being quick or mobile, Eli used to be mobile in the pocket and had some escapability to is game. He avoid pressure by side stepping or stepping up in the pocket at the right times like Mr. Brady.  Now we’ll, he just has zero chance to even do that. I think when we refer to him as being mobile back then this is what we mean. Not actually being quick but being smart and nibble.  Now Eli just slouths around in the pocket. His feet are In quick sand at all times. 

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37 minutes ago, chud12 said:

It’s not him being quick or mobile, Eli used to be mobile in the pocket and had some escapability to is game. He avoid pressure by side stepping or stepping up in the pocket at the right times like Mr. Brady.  Now we’ll, he just has zero chance to even do that. I think when we refer to him as being mobile back then this is what we mean. Not actually being quick but being smart and nibble.  Now Eli just slouths around in the pocket. His feet are In quick sand at all times. 

 

Well said.

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I think it's the offensive system. Sure Eli is inaccurate, but he has been most of his career. Nimble in the pocket? No one has ever accused Eli of that. I think the trend is if you have an inaccurate QB with skittish pocket presence you go to a shorter passing game to increase completion percentage. And hopefully, your skill players will add some YAC to create explosive plays.

 

It's the same crap Adam Gase is doing in Miami and it's painful to watch. Defenses know they are not being challenged downfield and they blow up all those silly bubble screens. Air yards are just non-existent. It's why both Adam Gase and Pat Shurmur steadfastly defend their QBs after every game. They are making the correct throws and getting the ball out quickly, but the offensive concept itself is a failure. In order for these plays to work, you need to get the ball out quickly and accurate, you need good WR blocking, O-lineman that get to the second level, and skill position players that can make players miss. If any of those things breakdown, the play fails. And when it happens the coach will say, it's not the QB, it's not the play call, it's the "execution". 

 

Then the coach will address the media in the presser and say we need to "clean some things up" as far as execution.''

 

These offenses are a joke.

Edited by Newtown
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23 minutes ago, Newtown said:

I think it's the offensive system. Sure Eli is inaccurate, but he has been most of his career. Nimble in the pocket? No one has ever accused Eli of that. I think the trend is if you have an inaccurate QB with skittish pocket presence you go to a shorter passing game to increase completion percentage. And hopefully, your skill players will add some YAC to create explosive plays.

 

It's the same crap Adam Gase is doing in Miami and it's painful to watch. Defenses know they are not being challenged downfield and they blow up all those silly bubble screens. Air yards are just non-existent. It's why both Adam Gase and Pat Shurmur steadfastly defend their QBs after every game. They are making the correct throws and getting the ball out quickly, but the offensive concept itself is a failure. In order for these plays to work, you need to get the ball out quickly and accurate, you need good WR blocking, O-lineman that get to the second level, and skill position players that can make players miss. If any of those things breakdown, the play fails. And when it happens the coach will say, it's not the QB, it's not the play call, it's the "execution". 

 

Then the coach will address the media in the presser and say we need to "clean some things up" as far as execution.''

 

These offenses are a joke.

 

Sure, but you said yourself that this trend was in response to having in inaccurate QB and a bad o-line.

 

Playing devil’s advocate here, but doesn’t mean:

 

(1) the offensive coordinator/coaches’ hand is somewhat forced into running this particular scheme; and 

 

(2) personnel not coaching deserve a lot of the blame?

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1 minute ago, Rainyy said:

 

Sure, but you said yourself that this trend was in response to having in inaccurate QB and a bad o-line.

 

Playing devil’s advocate here, but doesn’t mean:

 

(1) the offensive coordinator/coaches’ hand is somewhat forced into running this particular scheme; and 

 

(2) personnel not coaching deserve a lot of the blame?

 

To answer concisely:

 

(1) No, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

(2) No, coaches are responsible for maximizing personnel.

 

To elaborate:

 

Jared Goff was seen as an inaccurate QB with little pocket presence until McVay arrived. McVay could have adopted this scheme to get rid of the ball quickly like a lot of o-coordinators out there. Instead, he did the opposite. He reduced the amount of 3 step drops, incorporated more play action and ran 2 receiver routes with max protect targeting receivers down the field. Behind a strong running game, this has worked for the most part. It has simplified Goff's reads to 2 and a check down with 1 or 2 keys to read on a play. Less thinking, more efficiency. In addition, they challenge the secondary so when the do run WR bubble or RB screens, the defense cannot simply crash down on it. There is more to add on McVay, but I'll stop there.

 

In my opinion, coaching is more important in football than personnel. I can discuss further, but it would be going even more off-topic.

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35 minutes ago, Newtown said:

 

To answer concisely:

 

(1) No, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

(2) No, coaches are responsible for maximizing personnel.

 

To elaborate:

 

Jared Goff was seen as an inaccurate QB with little pocket presence until McVay arrived. McVay could have adopted this scheme to get rid of the ball quickly like a lot of o-coordinators out there. Instead, he did the opposite. He reduced the amount of 3 step drops, incorporated more play action and ran 2 receiver routes with max protect targeting receivers down the field. Behind a strong running game, this has worked for the most part. It has simplified Goff's reads to 2 and a check down with 1 or 2 keys to read on a play. Less thinking, more efficiency. In addition, they challenge the secondary so when the do run WR bubble or RB screens, the defense cannot simply crash down on it. There is more to add on McVay, but I'll stop there.

 

In my opinion, coaching is more important in football than personnel. I can discuss further, but it would be going even more off-topic.

 

Thank you. I get the assist on this post.  

 

I will add that Goff was unfairly disparaged, and is much better than Eli, but otherwise agree on all points. 

 

That said, one thing that hurts the Giants -especially with Engram out - is a lack of vertical threat to compliment Beckham.  

 

Giants biggest concerns are at online, coaching, and QB, but I think there’s some holes in their receiving core as well that get overlooked. 

 

Quite simply, in addition to being a little overrated, I think Shepard is kind of duplicative with OBJ as the #2 WR.

 

Id love to see OBJ move a bit more around the formation and play some more in the slot.  But they’re lacking a strong outside presence who can open up the game vertically.

 

Given how much attention OBJ draws, the Giants could really do some damage with someone big and fast - even if they are a less sound WR in other areas (think a DeVante Parker type).  

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42 minutes ago, Rainyy said:

 

Thank you. I get the assist on this post.  

 

I will add that Goff was unfairly disparaged, and is much better than Eli, but otherwise agree on all points. 

 

That said, one thing that hurts the Giants -especially with Engram out - is a lack of vertical threat to compliment Beckham.  

 

Giants biggest concerns are at online, coaching, and QB, but I think there’s some holes in their receiving core as well that get overlooked. 

 

Quite simply, in addition to being a little overrated, I think Shepard is kind of duplicative with OBJ as the #2 WR.

 

Id love to see OBJ move a bit more around the formation and play some more in the slot.  But they’re lacking a strong outside presence who can open up the game vertically.

 

Given how much attention OBJ draws, the Giants could really do some damage with someone big and fast - even if they are a less sound WR in other areas (think a DeVante Parker type).  

 

They need a true slot wr and they need a big body wr which they dont have. They lack size in their wr room

Edited by dashoe

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Barkley gashed the Eagles.  He was their only offense.

...and I don't remember seeing a single play action called.

Shurmur has already lost the locker room.  OBJ is right: the team plays without heart or energy.

Shurmur is a terrible HC

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Between the Oline, Eli, and OBJ's increasing frustration I'd be VERY worried about his production ROS. This is shaping up to be an absolute disaster. And as bad as the Oline is, Eli looks absolutely shot. Beckham is so talented and gets so many looks he's still gonna produce, but my guess is it's in more the 8-15 range as opposed to the 1-5 that most were hoping/expecting.

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