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Patrick Mahomes II 2018 Outlook

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On 2/7/2018 at 10:31 AM, mjb03003 said:

 

I'd say Mahomes to DeMarcus Robinson is a connection to watch. They made a lot of big plays together in preseason. 

Ahh, the preseason superstars :rolleyes: ... it's nice to show they're on the same page but I take anything done after the starters & immediate backups are out with a grain (okay , a block ) of salt. 

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As we know, Patrick Mahomes sat almost his entire rookie season (starting only in the season finale, with KC resting starters). Will having sat on the bench to soak up the NFL game under a vet help him going forward? Who knows for sure, but I took a look at every 1st round QB drafted this century (2000--2017).

 

Player Rookie Season Rookie Starts Rookie Pass Attempts Career TD Passes Notes
Andrew Luck 2012 16 627 132 will shoulder prevent greatness?
Sam Bradford 2010 16 590 101 keeps getting injured
Jameis Winston 2015 16 535 69 1 Pro Bowl; jury still out
Cam Newton 2011 16 517 158 1 Super Bowl loss; 1 MVP & 3 Pro Bowls
Ryan Tannehill 2012 16 484 106 meh
David Carr 2002 16 444 65 BUST (that offensive line killed him)
Matt Ryan 2008 16 434 260 1 Super Bowl loss; 1 MVP & 4 Pro Bowls
Joe Flacco 2008 16 428 200 1 Super Bowl win
Brandon Weeden 2012 15 517 31 BUST (29-year old rookies aren't a good idea)
Robert Griffin III 2012 15 393 42 1 Pro Bowl; injuries derailed career, so is he a true bust?
Mark Sanchez 2009 15 364 86 BUST (and the butt fumble)
Blaine Gabbert 2011 14 413 44 BUST
Blake Bortles 2014 13 475 90 Bust? Well, a question mark at best
Byron Leftwich 2003 13 418 58 BUST
Vince Young 2006 13 357 46 BUST (somehow had 2 Pro Bowls)
Ben Roethlisberger 2004 13 295 329 2 Super Bowl wins; 6 Pro Bowls
Joey Harrington 2002 12 429 79 BUST
Teddy Bridgewater 2014 12 402 28 1 Pro Bowl; okay and then major injury
Marcus Mariota 2015 12 370 58 regressed in third season
Mitch Trubisky 2017 12 330 7 not very impressive yet
Matt Leinart 2006 11 377 15 BUST
Matthew Stafford 2009 10 377 216 1 Pro Bowl
EJ Manuel 2013 10 306 20 BUST
Christian Ponder 2011 10 291 38 BUST
Josh Freeman 2009 9 290 81 BUST
Kyle Boller 2003 9 224 48 BUST
Jared Goff 2016 7 205 33 terrible rookie year (Fisher) but big second year (McVay)
Eli Manning 2004 7 197 339 2 Super Bowl wins & 4 Pro Bowls
Alex Smith 2005 7 165 183 3 Pro Bowls
DeShaun Watson 2017 6 204 19 on way to possible monster season before injury
Patrick Ramsey 2002 5 227 35 BUST
Jay Cutler 2006 5 137 227 1 Pro Bowl; million-dollar arm, 10-cent desire?
Tim Tebow 2010 3 82 17 BUST who (almost) everyone knew couldn't throw
Rex Grossman 2003 3 72 60 BUST (but did manage 1 Super Bowl loss)
Paxton Lynch 2016 2 83 4 BUST (at least so far)
Johnny Manziel 2014 2 35 7 BUST with terrible work ethic & decision-making
Michael Vick 2001 2 113 133 4 Pro Bowls; known for rushing ability and dogfighting
JaMarcus Russell 2007 1 66 18 BUST with terrible work ethic
Patrick Mahomes 2017 1 35 0 ?????
Jake Locker 2011 0 66 27 BUST
Aaron Rodgers 2005 0 16 313 sat first 3 years; 1 Super Bowl win, 6 Pro Bowls & 2 MVP's
Brady Quinn 2007 0 8 12 BUST
Philip Rivers 2004 0 8 342 sat first 2 years; 7 Pro Bowls
Chad Pennington 2000 0 5 102 sat first 2 years; big 2002 but injuries derailed career
JP Losman 2004 0 5 33 BUST
Jason Campbell 2005 0 0 87 meh
Carson Palmer 2003 0 0 294 3 Pro Bowls; early-career injury prevented even more
           

 

There's some hope for Mahomes in looking at the group of rookie QB's who didn't play/barely played. Some of the top 10 QB's amongst this group (Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Vick). A couple of average-to good players (Penningon & Campbell). It's almost like it is better to have sat out for all of your rookie year, or started 16 games. Eli and Ben of course did neither and have 2 Super Bowls each. But the busts are less frequent amongst the zero or 16-game starters. Anyways, just figured I'd share...

 

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9 hours ago, Corleone said:

As we know, Patrick Mahomes sat almost his entire rookie season (starting only in the season finale, with KC resting starters). Will having sat on the bench to soak up the NFL game under a vet help him going forward? Who knows for sure, but I took a look at every 1st round QB drafted this century (2000--2017).

 

Player Rookie Season Rookie Starts Rookie Pass Attempts Career TD Passes Notes
Andrew Luck 2012 16 627 132 will shoulder prevent greatness?
Sam Bradford 2010 16 590 101 keeps getting injured
Jameis Winston 2015 16 535 69 1 Pro Bowl; jury still out
Cam Newton 2011 16 517 158 1 Super Bowl loss; 1 MVP & 3 Pro Bowls
Ryan Tannehill 2012 16 484 106 meh
David Carr 2002 16 444 65 BUST (that offensive line killed him)
Matt Ryan 2008 16 434 260 1 Super Bowl loss; 1 MVP & 4 Pro Bowls
Joe Flacco 2008 16 428 200 1 Super Bowl win
Brandon Weeden 2012 15 517 31 BUST (29-year old rookies aren't a good idea)
Robert Griffin III 2012 15 393 42 1 Pro Bowl; injuries derailed career, so is he a true bust?
Mark Sanchez 2009 15 364 86 BUST (and the butt fumble)
Blaine Gabbert 2011 14 413 44 BUST
Blake Bortles 2014 13 475 90 Bust? Well, a question mark at best
Byron Leftwich 2003 13 418 58 BUST
Vince Young 2006 13 357 46 BUST (somehow had 2 Pro Bowls)
Ben Roethlisberger 2004 13 295 329 2 Super Bowl wins; 6 Pro Bowls
Joey Harrington 2002 12 429 79 BUST
Teddy Bridgewater 2014 12 402 28 1 Pro Bowl; okay and then major injury
Marcus Mariota 2015 12 370 58 regressed in third season
Mitch Trubisky 2017 12 330 7 not very impressive yet
Matt Leinart 2006 11 377 15 BUST
Matthew Stafford 2009 10 377 216 1 Pro Bowl
EJ Manuel 2013 10 306 20 BUST
Christian Ponder 2011 10 291 38 BUST
Josh Freeman 2009 9 290 81 BUST
Kyle Boller 2003 9 224 48 BUST
Jared Goff 2016 7 205 33 terrible rookie year (Fisher) but big second year (McVay)
Eli Manning 2004 7 197 339 2 Super Bowl wins & 4 Pro Bowls
Alex Smith 2005 7 165 183 3 Pro Bowls
DeShaun Watson 2017 6 204 19 on way to possible monster season before injury
Patrick Ramsey 2002 5 227 35 BUST
Jay Cutler 2006 5 137 227 1 Pro Bowl; million-dollar arm, 10-cent desire?
Tim Tebow 2010 3 82 17 BUST who (almost) everyone knew couldn't throw
Rex Grossman 2003 3 72 60 BUST (but did manage 1 Super Bowl loss)
Paxton Lynch 2016 2 83 4 BUST (at least so far)
Johnny Manziel 2014 2 35 7 BUST with terrible work ethic & decision-making
Michael Vick 2001 2 113 133 4 Pro Bowls; known for rushing ability and dogfighting
JaMarcus Russell 2007 1 66 18 BUST with terrible work ethic
Patrick Mahomes 2017 1 35 0 ?????
Jake Locker 2011 0 66 27 BUST
Aaron Rodgers 2005 0 16 313 sat first 3 years; 1 Super Bowl win, 6 Pro Bowls & 2 MVP's
Brady Quinn 2007 0 8 12 BUST
Philip Rivers 2004 0 8 342 sat first 2 years; 7 Pro Bowls
Chad Pennington 2000 0 5 102 sat first 2 years; big 2002 but injuries derailed career
JP Losman 2004 0 5 33 BUST
Jason Campbell 2005 0 0 87 meh
Carson Palmer 2003 0 0 294 3 Pro Bowls; early-career injury prevented even more
           

 

There's some hope for Mahomes in looking at the group of rookie QB's who didn't play/barely played. Some of the top 10 QB's amongst this group (Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Vick). A couple of average-to good players (Penningon & Campbell). It's almost like it is better to have sat out for all of your rookie year, or started 16 games. Eli and Ben of course did neither and have 2 Super Bowls each. But the busts are less frequent amongst the zero or 16-game starters. Anyways, just figured I'd share...

 

 

That list doesn't tell anything. You either got it or you don't. Its that simple in the NFL. 

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1 hour ago, South Carolina said:

 

That list doesn't tell anything. You either got it or you don't. Its that simple in the NFL. 

 

Point to me the part where I said that this list guarantees anything for Mahomes? Or any QB?

 

If you don't get anything from the list, then don't look at it again. And since you know that it's "you either got it or you don't", you should just become an NFL general manager. The NFL is that simple, as you've got it all figured out.

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I’m triggered by how that list isn’t ordered in any discernible fashion

 

edit: oh, rookie starts. I guess I’m the idiot

Edited by lolcopter

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8 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

 I guess I’m the idiot

 

That only took how many years to admit? :P

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24 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

I’m triggered by how that list isn’t ordered in any discernible fashion

 

edit: oh, rookie starts. I guess I’m the idiot

 

Yup rookie starts and then rookie pass attempts when tied in starts, I should have mentioned it though from the get-go. And I also notice I somehow deleted Carson Wentz. He should be the second name on the list, behind Luck. 

 

Player Rookie Season Rookie Starts Rookie Pass Attempts Career TD Passes Notes
Carson Wentz 2016 16 607 49 1 Pro Bowl; was an MVP contender before injury this year
Edited by Corleone

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3 hours ago, Corleone said:

 

Point to me the part where I said that this list guarantees anything for Mahomes? Or any QB?

 

If you don't get anything from the list, then don't look at it again. And since you know that it's "you either got it or you don't", you should just become an NFL general manager. The NFL is that simple, as you've got it all figured out.

Nice gathering of data in that list. I think what it best describes is how difficult it is to play QB. Regardless if a QB starts as a rookie or not, they either have it or they don't. Such a difficult position to scout. And it doesn't help that a lot of lesser talents get pushed into the 1st round because teams are desperate for a QB. And then some great talents get pushed out of the 1st round because of the size/arm metrics NFL teams desire like Wilson and Brees.

 

Andrew Luck belongs in the blue names, but that shoulder injury could end his career.

 

RG3's injuries didn't derail his career as much as his play on the field did. Defenses caught up to him. And it didn't help that his play-style and body type appears to have made him more injury-prone than other QB's. He didn't last one full game in Cleveland before breaking something and missing most of the season. RG3 belongs in the bust category in my opinion. He was a one-year wonder and injuries and play on the field declined.

Edited by devaster
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It's really a crap shoot drafting a QB. You just don't know until they do it. Every quarterback drafted "makes all the throws, has a cannon of an arm, is a true leader", etc. But as we've seen hundreds of times that means nothing. There may be 5 or more QB's drafted in the 1st round this year. How many will ever win a playoff game? 

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On 2/9/2018 at 11:15 AM, devaster said:

Nice gathering of data in that list. I think what it best describes is how difficult it is to play QB. Regardless if a QB starts as a rookie or not, they either have it or they don't. Such a difficult position to scout. And it doesn't help that a lot of lesser talents get pushed into the 1st round because teams are desperate for a QB. And then some great talents get pushed out of the 1st round because of the size/arm metrics NFL teams desire like Wilson and Brees.

 

Andrew Luck belongs in the blue names, but that shoulder injury could end his career.

 

RG3's injuries didn't derail his career as much as his play on the field did. Defenses caught up to him. And it didn't help that his play-style and body type appears to have made him more injury-prone than other QB's. He didn't last one full game in Cleveland before breaking something and missing most of the season. RG3 belongs in the bust category in my opinion. He was a one-year wonder and injuries and play on the field declined.

 

Agreed with many of your points. No matter what, it is easy to be a 1st round QB bust. As you mention, not every QB that goes in Round 1 should, and several that were worthy don't. I would have put Luck in the blue (Top 10) if he didn't have the shoulder injury that has derailed him. He may get back on track and easily be one of the best 1st round QB's this century, but right now, I felt it was too much of a question mark. And I can't disagree with anything you mention for RG3. I do wish we had a chance to see him without the rookie year injury...but he indeed was more injury-prone and likely would have gotten hurt anyways. And thinking about it, when you factor in all that the Redskins traded to move up and draft him, yeah, I guess I should put him in the red as a bust. 

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4 minutes ago, Corleone said:

 

Agreed with many of your points. No matter what, it is easy to be a 1st round QB bust. As you mention, not every QB that goes in Round 1 should, and several that were worthy don't. I would have put Luck in the blue (Top 10) if he didn't have the shoulder injury that has derailed him. He may get back on track and easily be one of the best 1st round QB's this century, but right now, I felt it was too much of a question mark. And I can't disagree with anything you mention for RG3. I do wish we had a chance to see him without the rookie year injury...but he indeed was more injury-prone and likely would have gotten hurt anyways. And thinking about it, when you factor in all that the Redskins traded to move up and draft him, yeah, I guess I should put him in the red as a bust. 

My reasoning for Luck was similar to Carson Palmer's. Palmer has carried on his career since his major injury, but he has never been at that same level he was pre-injury. Pre-injury he looked like he could have been an elite QB. Since then he has been an average NFL starter. Luck was already borderline elite before his injuries. Those injuries may end up ending his career or not making him the same player he used to be. I guess both belong in the purple category probably.

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1 minute ago, devaster said:

My reasoning for Luck was similar to Carson Palmer's. Palmer has carried on his career since his major injury, but he has never been at that same level he was pre-injury. Pre-injury he looked like he could have been an elite QB. Since then he has been an average NFL starter. Luck was already borderline elite before his injuries. Those injuries may end up ending his career or not making him the same player he used to be. I guess both belong in the purple category probably.

 

I went with 10 for the blue, just because top 10 lists are fun. My thought is that while he could have been more, getting almost 300 passing TD's and 3 Pro Bowls, he has to be considered one of the top 10 1st round QB's from 2000--2017. 

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Here's another look at the 1st round QB's from 2000--2017.

--they are sorted by career TD passes.

--the Top WR/TE and Top RB's columns are the top guys from the team in the first year in which the QB reached 150 pass attempts (which is primarily rookie season itself,  or first season in which the QB began making starts). 

--the Pro Bowl columns are whether the players made the Pro Bowl in that season while playing with the QB.

--listing of blue are the Top 10 QB's in my opinion, while purple is middle-ground, and red is bust. 

 

QB Career TD Passes Top WR/TE for QB   WR/TE in Pro Bowl? Top RB for QB RB in Pro Bowl?
Philip Rivers 342 Antonio Gates - 924 yards Yes Tomlinson - 1815 yards Yes
Eli Manning 339 Plaxico Burress - 1214 yards No Tiki Barber - 1518 yards Yes
Ben Roethlisberger 329 Hines Ward - 1004 yards  Yes Jerome Bettis - 941 yards Yes
Aaron Rodgers 313 Jennings 1291 & Driver 1012 No Ryan Grant - 1203 yards No
Carson Palmer 294 Chad Johnson - 1432 yards Yes Rudi Johnson - 1458 yards No
Matt Ryan 260 Roddy White - 1382 yards Yes Michael Turner - 1699 yards Yes
Jay Cutler 227 Brandon Marshall - 1325 yards No Travis Henry - 691 yards No
Matthew Stafford 216 Calvin Johnson - 984 yards No Kevin Smith - 747 yards No
Joe Flacco 200 Derrick Mason - 1037 yards No LeRon McClain - 902 yards Yes
Alex Smith 183 Brandon Lloyd - 733 yards No Frank Gore - 608 yards  No
Cam Newton 158 Steve Smith - 1394 yards Yes DeAngelo Williams - 836 yards No
Michael Vick 133 Brian Finneran - 838 yards No Warrick Dunn - 927 yards No
Andrew Luck 132 Reggie Wayne - 1355 yards Yes Vick Ballard - 814 yards No
Ryan Tannehill 106 Brian Hartline - 1083 yards No Reggie Bush - 986 yards No
Chad Pennington 102 Laverneus Coles - 1264 yards No Curtis Martin - 1094 yards No
Sam Bradford 101 Danny Amendola - 689 yards No Steven Jackson - 1241 yards Yes
Blake Bortles 90 Allen Hurns - 677 yards No Denard Robinson - 582 yards No
Jason Campbell 87 Santana Moss - 790 yards No Ladell Betts - 1154 yards No
Mark Sanchez 86 Jerricho Cotchery - 821 yards No Thomas Jones - 1402 yards No
Josh Freeman 81 Kellen Winslow - 884 yards No Cadillac Williams - 823 yards No
Joey Harrington 79 Bill Schroeder - 595 yards No James Stewart - 1021 yards No
Jameis Winston 69 Mike Evans - 1206 yards No Doug Martin - 1402 yards Yes
David Carr 65 Corey Bradford - 697 yards No Jonathan Wells - 529 yards No
Rex Grossman 60 David Terrell - 699 yards No Thomas Jones - 948 yards No
Marcus Mariota 58 Delanie Walker - 1088 yards Yes Antonio Andrews - 520 yards No
Byron Leftwich 58 Jimmy Smith - 805 yards No Fred Taylor - 1572 yards No
Carson Wentz 49 Zach Ertz - 816 yards No Ryan Matthews - 661 yards No
Kyle Boller  48 Todd Heap - 693 yards Yes Jamal Lewis - 2066 yards Yes
Vince Young 46 Drew Bennett - 737 yards No Travis Henry - 1211 yards No
Blaine Gabbert 44 Mercedes Lewis - 460 yards No Maurice Jones-Drew - 1606 yards Yes
Robert Griffin III 42 Pierre Garçon - 633 yards No Alfred Morris - 1613 yards No
Christian Ponder 38 Percy Harvin - 967 yards No Adrian Peterson - 970 yards No
Patrick Ramsey 35 Rod Gardner - 1006 yards No Stephen Davis - 820 yards No
Jared Goff 33 Kenny Britt - 1002 yards No Todd Gurley - 885 yards No
JP Losman 33 Eric Moulds - 816 yards No Willis McGahee - 1247 yards No
Brandon Weeden 31 Josh Gordon - 805 yards No Trent Richardson - 950 yards No
Teddy Bridgewater 28 Greg Jennings - 742 yards No Matt Asiata - 570 yards No
Jake Locker 27 Nate Washington - 746 yards No Chris Johnson - 1243 yards No
EJ Manuel 20 Scott Chandler - 655 yards No CJ Spiller - 933 yards No
Deshaun Watson 19 DeAndre Hopkins - 1378 yards Yes Lamar Miller - 888 yards No
JaMarcus Russell 18 Zach Miller - 778 yards No Justin Vargas - 853 yards No
Tim Tebow 17 Eric Decker - 612 yards No Willis McGahee - 1199 yards Yes
Matt Leinart 15 Anquan Boldin - 1203 yards Yes Edgerrin James - 1159 yards No
Brady Quinn 12 Mohamed Massaquoi - 624 yards No Jerome Harrison - 862 yards No
Mitch Trubisky 7 Kendall Wright - 614 yards No Jordan Howard - 1122 yards No
Johnny Manziel 7 Gary Barnidge - 1043 yards Yes Isaiah Crowell - 706 yards No
Paxton Lynch 4 Demaryius Thomas - 949 yards No CJ Anderson - 1007 yards No
Patrick Mahomes 0 ?? ?? ?? ??
           

 

The 1st round QB's who have gone on to have the best careers, by and large had the best WR/TE/RB talent around them. Look at the QB's in blue. Most had Pro Bowl/Hall of Fame caliber weapons right from the start of their careers. In many of the cases where the QB's WR/TE/RB isn't listed as a Pro Bowler, they were a Pro Bowler the very next season (for example, Stafford with Calvin Johnson, and also Eli Manning had Jeremy Shockey as a Pro Bowl TE his second season). Aaron Rodgers didn't have Pro Bowlers, but he's the only one who had two 1000 WR's to work with. The two QB's who I'd say are #9 and #10 on the blue list are Michael Vick and Joe Flacco...and they're the ones with the least talent (and Vick's prowess was always tied to his running ability as is).

 

Looking at the purple QB's, Andrew Luck may be the best chance to be a blue and he too had a Pro Bowler (and Wayne will probably be a HOF'er someday). It looks like Alex Smith didn't have a lot around him as a rookie, but Frank Gore was a Pro Bowler with over 2000 combined yards the next season. Jay Cutler had Brandon Marshall as a Pro Bowler in the next season as well. Of the younger QB's, Carson Wentz had Zach Ertz as a Pro Bowler this year. DeShaun Watson had Hopkins to throw to. Winston & Mariota both have had Pro Bowl weapons. 

 

The red QB's are the busts. Compare the weapons they had to blue and purple. It's pretty ugly. The majority of busts had a lot of mediocrity around them. Even in cases of 1000 yard seasons, we can look at those players and recognize many were not game-changers. One could say, well they had bust QB's that couldn't make them better...but many of those WR/TE/RB's didn't go on to do much in their careers regardless. There are some exceptions. Matt Leinart had excellent weapons...Pro Bowler Boldin as a rookie, and Pro Bowler Larry Fitzgerald in his second year. But he still busted. And Kyle Boller also had Pro Bowlers in the rushing and passing game, though Todd Heap is not exactly someone to go crazy over. Nonetheless, Leinart and Boller are exceptions to the bust norm. Also, having a Pro Bowl-caliber WR or TE seems more useful than a Pro Bowl-caliber RB (not shocking). Some of the bust QB's had huge RB seasons to help them in either year 1 or year 2, but they still stunk.

 

Is this all a case of the QB's being so talented that they make the WR's into Pro Bowlers or top-notch players? Well, many of these WR's were Pro Bowlers before the rookie QB's were even in the NFL. Could there be something to a rookie QB having a great WR (or TE) and that helps elevate the rookie QB right from the start, where they go on to develop more confidence and have better NFL careers than their counterparts? I think there could be something to that.

 

In a way, some of this is a chicken or an egg situation. You can't prove anything for X quarterback going forward from this list. Some players will be good no matter what, and some will bust no matter what. But I'd say it would be pretty smart for teams to get their rookie QB's a star WR or TE from day 1, if they want to give them the best possible chance to succeed (easier said than done). With all that said, how does this relate to Patrick Mahomes? He's on a team with a Pro Bowl RB, WR and TE, in Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce. Will they be Pro Bowlers in 2018? We don't know. But I feel that history shows having elite talent like Hunt/Hill/Kelce, gives Mahomes a leg up on rookie QB's thrown into the fire without a good supporting cast. Looking at history (while recognizing that history doesn't prove anything for an individual situation) gives me that much more confidence that Mahomes will be able to get it done. 

 
Edited by Corleone

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The Chiefs are reportedly adding Sammy Watkins to Mahomes' arsenal of weapons...

 

Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt

 

BOOM goes Mahomes' ADP! Dynasty gold.

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18 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

The Chiefs are reportedly adding Sammy Watkins to Mahomes' arsenal of weapons...

 

Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt

 

BOOM goes Mahomes' ADP! Dynasty gold.

 

 

I'm not a big believer in his value as a 1st year starter for 2018 in an Andy reid offense but i expect in 2019 after learning how to run the offense smoothly with his pass catchers he is going to make a massive 2nd yr starter leap as  a QB. 

What i'm really betting on for 2018 he heavily targets Kelce and Hunt(assuming Hunt stays in on passing downs too)

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2 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

The Chiefs are reportedly adding Sammy Watkins to Mahomes' arsenal of weapons...

 

Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt

 

BOOM goes Mahomes' ADP! Dynasty gold.

 

All in on Mahommes this year!

 

After seeing dual-threat Watson succeed last year in HOU, I don't see why Mahommes can't produce at a similar rate with better weapons at his disposal. His dynasty potential and outlook is stronger than almost any QB.

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17 minutes ago, Mr2Saint said:

 

All in on Mahommes this year!

 

After seeing dual-threat Watson succeed last year in HOU, I don't see why Mahommes can't produce at a similar rate with better weapons at his disposal. His dynasty potential and outlook is stronger than almost any QB.

 

that's not a good premise to base your decision making on.  Mahommes with better weapons  should be = to or >  than dual threat watson?

 

1. Houston adapted their ball control offense to watsons playing stype so they went spread offense with a bunch of option plays, shotgun formations, etc

2. KC runs a heavy west coast style offense with some Reid wrinkles.

 

spread option is alot easier for a 1st year QB to run effectively and the wco takes 3-4 years to learn properly.

The question is will mahommes pick up enough of the wco to run it smoothly and produce to Reids satisfaction or will Reid need to add more spread style schemes to facilitate his young QB?

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3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

that's not a good premise to base your decision making on.  Mahommes with better weapons  should be = to or >  than dual threat watson?

 

1. Houston adapted their ball control offense to watsons playing stype so they went spread offense with a bunch of option plays, shotgun formations, etc

2. KC runs a heavy west coast style offense with some Reid wrinkles.

 

spread option is alot easier for a 1st year QB to run effectively and the wco takes 3-4 years to learn properly.

The question is will mahommes pick up enough of the wco to run it smoothly and produce to Reids satisfaction or will Reid need to add more spread style schemes to facilitate his young QB?

 

Mahommes is a dual threat QB - that's common knowledge. And who's to say KC doesn't modify their playbook/system to cater to Mahommes' strengths? I don't see KC running the same offense in '18 that they ran with Smith in '17. Mahommes and Smith are two completely different QBs.

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14 minutes ago, Mr2Saint said:

 

Mahommes is a dual threat QB - that's common knowledge. And who's to say KC doesn't modify their playbook/system to cater to Mahommes' strengths? I don't see KC running the same offense in '18 that they ran with Smith in '17. Mahommes and Smith are two completely different QBs.

 

It doesnt matter who the QB is the wco is the wco offense and you have to master the fundamentals to run it. You do realize who the HC is correct? Do yo really think Reid is going to abandon his ginormous a$$ed plastic playsheet to accomodate his rookie QB? :lol:

Reid has always runs an wco offense. Maybe he modifies it the way he did for Vick but Mahommes is not a running threat like Vick, probably closest to McNabb.  Either way as the apparent franchise QB Mahommes is going to have to learn the wco as long as Reid is the HC. So dont expect him to play like a stud putting up hysterical stats as a 1st yr starter.  Expect for him to have some learning pains as he looks like a stud in one game and like a rookie in the next

 

Edited by dashoe

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25 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

It doesnt matter who the QB is the wco is the wco offense and you have to master the fundamentals to run it. You do realize who the HC is correct? Do yo really think Reid is going to abandon his ginormous a$$ed plastic playsheet to accomodate his rookie QB? :lol:

Reid has always runs an wco offense. Maybe he modifies it the way he did for Vick but Mahommes is not a running threat like Vick, probably closest to McNabb.  Either way as the apparent franchise QB Mahommes is going to have to learn the wco as long as Reid is the HC. So dont expect him to play like a stud putting up hysterical stats as a 1st yr starter.  Expect for him to have some learning pains as he looks like a stud in one game and like a rookie in the next

 

 

Go watch more tape. Mahommes is a star.

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4 minutes ago, Mr2Saint said:

 

Go watch more tape. Mahommes is a star.

 

 He could be a savant for all I know but I learned a long time ago don't place talent over fit, system and utilization in the NFL :D

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7 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 He could be a savant for all I know but I learned a long time ago don't place talent over fit, system and utilization in the NFL :D

 

Only time will tell, buddy. Let's watch and enjoy.

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13 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

The Chiefs are reportedly adding Sammy Watkins to Mahomes' arsenal of weapons...

 

Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt

 

BOOM goes Mahomes' ADP! Dynasty gold.

Really have to feel for Alex Smith.  Gets run out of SF once they have a Super Bowl caliber team around him.  Spends 5 years in KC, 4 of which they have very limited skill position talent for him to throw to.  Now they are stacked and he gets shown the door.  If Mahomes doesn't produce with these weapons KC is going to look really bad.

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On 3/13/2018 at 11:27 PM, youngrice said:

Really have to feel for Alex Smith.  Gets run out of SF once they have a Super Bowl caliber team around him.  Spends 5 years in KC, 4 of which they have very limited skill position talent for him to throw to.  Now they are stacked and he gets shown the door.  If Mahomes doesn't produce with these weapons KC is going to look really bad.

 

They could afford to pay Watkins $16 million because they're not paying Smith $17 million.

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