DoTheRoar

Joey Votto 2018 Outlook

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45 minutes ago, DoTheRoar said:

 

Which certainly is useful in real life (just ask the 98 loss reds) but has no effect whatsoever in standard leagues.

 

Yeah, his walk totals, OBP and overall performance are totally the reason that the Reds struggle...youve figured it out!

 

Its not that atrocious pitching situation (29th in the majors in ERA, 28th in IP,  29th in QS) that couldn't keep a solid offense (14th in runs, 10th in OPS, 13th in OBP ) in games.  Its not even worth coming in here with arguments like that. It reflects so poorly on knowledge and understanding that its not even funny. 

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1 hour ago, Chaco Chicken said:

Votto was the #2 1B in standard leagues last season. @DoTheRoar do you have any objective reason, any empirical evidence, anything aside from your "hunch" that Joey won't repeat as a top 5  1B in 2018?

 

He will be 35 next year and had a bad second half fantasy wise.

 

Just encouraging discussion.

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1 minute ago, DoTheRoar said:

had a bad second half fantasy wise

 

No, he did not. Pitchers stopped giving him anything to hit and he still slugged .510. You can't ding him for that and it's not predictive of performance.

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30 minutes ago, DoTheRoar said:

 

He will be 35 next year and had a bad second half fantasy wise.

 

Just encouraging discussion.

 

He didn't have a bad second half by any measure. 

 

.327, 10 HR, 32 RBI, 41 R, excellent advanced metrics

 

In combination with his past performance, there is simply no way to read that as a negative let alone label it as "bad".

 

Stirring the pot just like the 2017 thread is all I see here.

 

Guy is likely the best overall hitter in the game.

Edited by treat88

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6 minutes ago, treat88 said:

 

He didn't have a bad second half by any measure. 

 

.327, 10 HR, 32 RBI, 41 R, excellent advanced metrics

 

In combination with his past performance, there is simply no way to read that as a negative let alone label it as "bad".

 

Stirring the pot just like the 2017 thread is all I see here.

 

Guy is likely the best overall hitter in the game.

 

10/32 just isn't enough from your 1B over a full half. Hoping for better!

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28 minutes ago, Chaco Chicken said:

 

No, he did not. Pitchers stopped giving him anything to hit and he still slugged .510. You can't ding him for that and it's not predictive of performance.

 

OBP ? SLG ? and ? OPS ? are ? not ? stats ? relevant ? to ? standard ? fantasy ? baseball.

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12 minutes ago, DoTheRoar said:

 

10/32 just isn't enough from your 1B over a full half. Hoping for better!

 

Sucks to play in those hyper competitive 2 category leagues I guess.

 

Really man, there are no dings in Vottos armor.  35 yo is the only even slightly negative to the profile.

 

You buy Votto and you know exactly what you are going to get as seasons end.

Edited by treat88
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2 minutes ago, treat88 said:

 

Sucks to play in those hyper competitive 2 category leagues I guess.

 

Really man, there are no dings in Vottos armor.  35 yo is the only even slightly negative to the profile.

 

You buy Votto and you know exactly what you are going to get as seasons end.

 

Fantasy wise, I have faith in an average near .300. That's about it. I could see HR/RBI dropping to 20-25/80. 

 

Def not a first round guy imvho

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11 minutes ago, DoTheRoar said:

OBP ? SLG ? and ? OPS ? are ? not ? stats ? relevant ? to ? standard ? fantasy ? baseball.

 

Dude, they are descriptive stats you use instead of listing all their constituent parts.  You need to look at predictive stats.

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Just like, say, xFIP and SwStr% are not pitching categories but Wins and ERA are.

 

However, if you're focusing on Wins and ERA and ignoring xFIP, SwStrk% and the like, you are lost.

 

Moving on.

Edited by My Dinner With Andre
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He broke out the clapping hands guys. I guess that means the arguments over and he wins. That's how that works right?

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Guys, stop feeding the troll.  He pulled the same exact muscles trying to beat down Votto last season.  It's pretty clear he missed out on Votto in his keeper league.

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58 minutes ago, aifan27 said:

Guys, stop feeding the troll.  He pulled the same exact muscles trying to beat down Votto last season.  It's pretty clear he missed out on Votto in his keeper league.

 

Haha, looking back at the 2017 thread...

 

At least last year he waited til March 31 for "Any other Votto owners panicking a bit? He just had his worst Spring ever, by far, and in the offseason said he was much more focused on defense (not hitting) unlike in years past. I am worried."

 

Fast forward to April 11: "What the hell is going on this year? Votto is swinging at everything he sees" and 5 other similar play by play calls when he had a few bad games messing with mechanics over the next couple days.

 

Votto then plays like a stone cold stud and he didn't say a word for like 6 weeks til JV had a couple  bad games so it's right back to the boards on May 28 to chip in that he's "really struggling now".

 

Once he goes back to crushing all the posts are about how 34 is old and compiling numbers is the only way to prove a player is Hall worthy. No comments about him being an AMAZING fantasy asset...

 

He has a bad week in July and it's right back to "This clown has no idea what he's doing up at the dish right now." followed by another period of Joey taking the league by storm til a couple bad games in August and he give the sage advice that "If your trade deadline hasn't passed, I would at least consider dealing." and one last jab about how "ice cold" he is before disappearing the rest of the season while Joey had a great final month. 

 

I just don't get it DoTheRoar... why do you hate Joey Votto so much? Did he do something to personally offend you? Does he need to put up Bondsian numbers to meet your expectations?

 

If you don't like that he has cold stretches and you think he is a H2H liability why not just come out and say that? No one is going to strongly disagree and you can just stop wasting your time talking trash about an amazing player. The bottom line is that Votto is elite in standard roto, slightly less valuable in H2H and a god in OBP/OPS leagues. What more is there to say?

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I'm not bashing Votto, I'm creating a discussion and trying to get some opinions.

 

Are you one of those people who think that Votto is going to be great until the end of time?

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11 minutes ago, DoTheRoar said:

I'm not bashing Votto, I'm creating a discussion and trying to get some opinions.

 

Are you one of those people who think that Votto is going to be great until the end of time?

 

Did you read the end of my post? I said that I think "Votto is elite in standard roto, slightly less valuable in H2H and a god in OBP/OPS leagues." 

 

This is the Votto 2018 thread and I'm sorry that I can't predict the next 5 years of Joey Votto's health, I'm not a freaking wizard. My opinion? If he is healthy he will be great, but none of us are future tellers or his personal physician so where is the discussion?

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Votto is a monster and focusing on “10/32” is just foolish.  All peripheral stats show that he was just as good in the 2nd half as he was in the first.  

 

In my NL only auctions, Votto was a great deal- came 8-12 bucks cheaper than harper, arenado, and Goldy, but still provided the stud value you need at the core of your team.  I suspect due to age and the team he plays for, he will be a bargain yet again.

 

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Where do you rate him in an OBP league? #2? Or do you still like him after rizzo and Freeman? The latter two have youth on their side 

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3 hours ago, BleedRedsRed said:

 

Did you read the end of my post? I said that I think "Votto is elite in standard roto, slightly less valuable in H2H and a god in OBP/OPS leagues." 

 

This is the Votto 2018 thread and I'm sorry that I can't predict the next 5 years of Joey Votto's health, I'm not a freaking wizard. My opinion? If he is healthy he will be great, but none of us are future tellers or his personal physician so where is the discussion?

 

All I'm saying is that when you're dealing with a 35 year old player (serious decline years), discussion about potential regression is normal. Especially coming off of a subpar second half from a fantasy perspective. 

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That had .346 avg 41 runs and 2 SB also in the second half 

Also had .315 avg 26 HR 65 Runs 68 RBI in the first half 

but you know that terrible decline is so bad 

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9 hours ago, DoTheRoar said:

 

All I'm saying is that when you're dealing with a 35 year old player (serious decline years), discussion about potential regression is normal. Especially coming off of a subpar second half from a fantasy perspective. 

 

david-ortiz-bobble-head.gif?w=640

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On 1/28/2018 at 1:34 PM, aifan27 said:

 It's pretty clear he missed out on Votto in his keeper league.

 

Or is considering drafting him and wants to be talked into it. ;)

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http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2018/02/18/266689800/joey-votto-spent-his-offseason-trying-to-get-fatter?partnerId=sf84661350&sf84661350=1

 

Quote

There is no one quite like Joey Votto. While other players chase pitches out of the zone, Votto watches them float right by. While other players give baseballs to fans, Votto teases them. And when other players report to camp in the best shape of their lives, Votto shows up fatter. And he's proud of it, too. 

 

"I tried to get fatter," Votto told reporters when he arrived for his physical on Sunday. "I succeeded at that apparently. We did all the testing, and I am fatter. I just wanted to take as much time away as I could and relax and really unwind. I felt like I needed it. Hopefully it pays off."

 

 

That's a bold strategy Cotton

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In OBP leagues he's a beast but I'm just curious where people have him in comparison to say Bryant, Freeman, and Rizzo? All of those guys seem to be going in the end of the 1st or at the turn into the 2nd round of 10-12 team leagues. Personally I'd rather have Votto because his OBP floor is sky high but I have seen arguments for the others going ahead of him. Bryant has a lower floor than Votto but higher ceiling and dual position eligibility. Freeman could be 2nd in the league in OBP, was on a tear last year before the injury and he has dual position eligibility. Then Rizzo for similar reasons as Bryant although he has a little bit of a lower ceiling but the 2B position eligibility in Yahoo, albeit dumb, is really a big deal. 

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I believe there is reason to knock Votto for being how highly ranked he is currently . Sure can the guy hit? Absolutely! However, we are only 2-3 seasons removed from pages upon pages of "where is my RBI production Votto? Stop walking so much with RISP!" Before last season he has not driven in 100 rbis since 2011. That is a huge deal for a power position and RBI position like 1B in fantasy baseball. I like Votto and could easily see good numbers, but for his age and his lack of RBI consistency over the years I could understand wanting to look elsewhere. 2012 - 2015 RBI totals per year 56, 73, 23, 80. Albeit he had two seasons where he missed some time in there, but is 73 rbis over 162 games or 80 rbi's over 158 games anything close to almost first round 1st baseman? Absolutely not! We all know Votto can put the bat on the ball and is a tough out, but throughout his career that has not always equaled tremendous RBI production. If he was more consistent with his rbi totals we'd probably talk about this guy in a similar light to prime Pujols (obviously not exactly as good but not too far off), but there is a dramatic difference here due to rbi production. Lastly, I must say that Red's lineup for 2018 is not very scary, so while i can see a good year from Votto and possibly a 2017 repeat I do not think it is as "sure thing" as many believe. 

Edited by bdawkins456

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